All the guy does is try to cast doubt on the scriptures, he even accuses God himself. He then vomits his false doctrine all over the forum. I am not going to play some patty cake game of appeasement with him.
Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You know that man VERY WELL my friend .That is exactly what he has been doing for all the days i have known him . ALWAYS trying to cast doubt on the scriptures
Always accusing GOD himself and then ON YEAH HE VOMITS his false doct rine .
You my friend have that man pegged spot on right . I been saying that for a long time .
But YOU do realize he loved and sat under DECONSTRUCTION . and that is exactly WHAT THOSE who taught that DID .
You could use some education about UR.
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
what i say next might seem as hate to this generation . but its not hate .
And what i say next might seem like accusations against him and that i had no desire for his good .
WHICH again would be a lie .
But if this site were my site , i would have banned him . NOT because i hate him
But because no matter how often i warned him , HE HEEDED NOT
and he is a danger to the unlearned .
But it aint my site , nor yours . SO all we can do is warn against him , pray for him to repent ,
hope he does . BUT cont inue to warn against him TILL HE DO .
Do you believe that everyone will ultimately be saved or not? I am not interested in some regurgitated google search. Just a straight answer.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
now before he answers
let us always remember
WHO JESUS said will be saved .
And who JESUS said will be damned .
THEN let us remember that in the holy scroll , the holy book , the holy revelation
given by CHRIST to john
IT made CLEAR mention that the nations of those who were saved shall b e in this glorious city
and that all UNBELEIVERS , not so
but rather they have their part IN THE LAKE OF FIRE .
THEN remember that in no place was it made mention that , WELL after they served their time
they got released .
BUT , and this is one huge and dire and v ery dire needful reminder that IS MENTIONED .
AND HERE IT IS
HE WHO ADDS TO or takes FROM that book . O OPS , not GOOD . and believe me when i say
ST steven SURE DO ADD to that book with his universal THEY GET OUT in the end false fable .
HE adds too it . Now lets go look at what occurs to those who DO such a thing . NOT GOOD .
Beebster
Active Member
They will be:
Mrk 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Most in the lake of fire.
Your physical body will go back to dust. It means nothing.
Ok, so you are not baptized into his death. Takes a lot to admit that I suppose.
It shows you how worthless your physical body is and it, along with the carnal mind, will never enter the Kingdom of heaven.
Not much is literal in those 4 verses. Most of it is symbolic. You will be judged, but the books, the white throne, the earth, the sky. The dead standing, second death, lake of fire etc.. All
symbolic to teach us spiritual truth. If Christ heals us.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
They aren't a "sacrifice"
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God
I see why you are so deceived now. You imagine things people say and force it into what is written.
Did Jesus have a physical body after the resurrection?
Lk 24:37-39 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
I see, you cherry pick anything that disagrees with your position and claim it's symbolic. If the judgement is real then the punishment is real.
Rv 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Beebster
Active Member
Yes, once we are given immortality, we will never die. Unless, of course, you believe that lie Satan told and think you are immortal now.
True. Interesting how adultery and fornication seem to be at the top of the list quite a bit.
Like here:
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Why would Paul put it before murder.
You ever wonder why that is?
That's right. Spirit good carnal bad.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
And we all know that everyone shall bow to Christ one day.
Yeah, that's just about everyone, including most Christians.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mat 7:22-23)
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, (elect) that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Rev 18:4)
That is what the Fire, means!
You throw something into a fire, it is "no more" ; it is gone forever.
That is why Revelation 20:13,14 says that death is hurled into the Lake of Fire. Now you can't literally burn death (so it's not a literal fire it's symbolic). But God can make death be gone forever; it will be "no more"; and that's what the next chapter Revelation 21 verse 4 says. "Death will be no more"
Whatever or whoever is thrown into this fire, will be no more.
2 Peter 3:7 talks about fire, Same understanding.
Haven't we already beaten this one to death ? It is simply not a teaching on salvation....it is addressing a different subject.
There is a big problem in using this as an apologetic for your theory........everyone will be judged by what they do in this life, not by what they may do afterwards.
We need to read the whole context to understand what it means to be salted with fire. It is talking about believers suffering and losing things in this life (chastised as sons) in order to gain eternal life. Better to lose one eye or hand in this life than for the whole body to be thrown into hell fire. There is a difference between being salted with fire as opposed to being engulfed and entirely destroyed by it. Salt signifies preservation.
You know what brother, I don't mind hearing what people have to say.........I'm not afraid of considering things and testing them by scripture. But if something can't be shown to be what scripture is teaching, then I have to reject it. These Universalists will have to do a better job of showing how the bible teaches universal salvation if they want to convince me. So far, only cherry picking and lack of understanding of what those cherry picked verses are saying, is all that is being presented, along with their human reasonings, as if God can be brought down to our man-centred level. HIs ways and thinking are much higher than ours.
The cruel and sadistic behavior the church accuses God of are lower, not higher, than even our ways.
It is you who accuses a Holy and Righteous God of cruel and sadistic behavior. You can't respect God for who he truly is so you resort to vain imaginations to make him acceptable in your sight. God has made a provision for all to escape eternal damnation. People will only be judged if they reject it.
You view existence through a temporal lense that prevents you from considering what eternity is. Once we are raised and the new heavens created, we are outside this realm of space and time. Whatever state we are in...bliss or punishment, is the state we will exist for all of eternity. There will be no more time.
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of your Protestant evangelical gospel requirements for salvation.
Even today there are unreached people groups. I suppose the good news is that they haven't had the opportunity to reject it.
I suppose now you will quote Romans chapter one saying they are "without excuse".
As if acknowledgement of a creator God fulfills your Protestant evangelical gospel requirements for salvation.
Like what exactly?
What sort of cruel and sadistic behavior do I accuse God of?
Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What should He do with His?
Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Everyone will be judged fairly. We don't know how God will handle the judgement of those who have never heard the gospel. All we know is that God will be fair and just
I am not going to quote anything. God's judgement on this issue is a mystery. What I do not do...is invent some doctrine of demons that claims everyone will ultimately be saved. That is not something the scripture teaches.
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