Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Sure it dies.....Satan said "you shall not surely die" and universalism claims no one will eternally die. Same lie from the same source
I am talking about the fate of the lost...who you claim, are not really lost, but will ultimately be reconciled. That is a lie from the pit of hell.
Beebster
Active Member
Dead is dead.
No need to add "eternally" to it.
When you are dead you will remain dead until you are resurrected.
It seems to me, Christianity claims that we do not die with their "eternal life" doctrine.
Beebster
Active Member
Christ is our saviour. He is very good at saving those who are lost which we all have our part in; being lost that is. Christ will LOSE no one, when its all said and done.
Almost all will experience the first death. It is not eternal. It is the second death that one really needs to worry about. It IS eternal.
Rv 20:14-15
This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
There are some who will go into perdition:
Jn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Beebster
Active Member
I'd say billions, but not forever.
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.1Co 5:5-6
Those verses are about a believer who fell into grievous sin. The ones who go into perdition are there forever.
Beebster
Active Member
What was that sin they fell into?
And what do you believe "perdition" means?
Beebster
Active Member
We are all born dead. Spiritually dead. We are born carnal. When we are baptized into Christ we are baptized into his death.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
That is the death that matters.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Our physical death is not first death.
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that i8I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
The lake of fire is not literal and neither is second death.
Second death is judgment to destroy the man of sin, the carnal mind. We will all go through this fire. Some now, in this life/age but most later.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Perdition in Greek is....“apōleia” which is translated as...
“Destruction...waste...wasted....perish...perdition”
It is used in Scripture 18 times....14 times as “destruction”.
So anyone who faces this sentence is “destroyed”....they cease to live. They “perish”.
Beebster
Active Member
No ma'am, we all face this.
Were you never perished?
Were you never lost?
Does the man of sin in you need not be destroyed?
Jesus Christ will save all.
My mistake, I meant to post John 5:28,29 where it says the wicked will have a "resurrection of judgment."
In verse 29, it seems that the term judgment is used in the sense of a process of evaluation and probation or as one Greek lexicon says a "scrutiny of conduct." Those who receive "a resurrection of judgment" are apparently the same as "the unrighteous" mentioned in Acts 24:15. These unrighteous ones will be judged based (according to Romans 6:7), not on what they did in the past but rather on their conduct after their resurrection, under the kingdom rule of Christ and His "brothers" (Matthew 25:40), who are also fellow rulers & judges.
See how Romans 6:7 helps us understand the Judgment? Because as Romans 6:23 further says, "the wages of sin is..." -- what? -- it's death ....not torment, not anything else.
Take care, my friend.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
God never gave us humans immortality....he made us mortal for a reason....but he never intended for us to die, so he gave the humans the means to go on living.....as long as they obeyed his command, they would have access to “the tree of life”.....all creation was declared to be “very good” by the Creator at the close of the 6th “day”.....but after that, a rebel spirit derailed God’s first purpose by enticing the woman to disobey God, promising her that ‘she would not die’....she in turn enticed her husband to also disobey. What was the result? (Gen 3:22-24)
Instead of eliminating that first rebel and the humans he deceived, God allowed mankind to experience first hand, the results of their disobedience under the rulership of the one they chose to obey. (Luke 4:5-7)
We all die because of what Adam chose to do. (Rom 5:12).....and most of us will be resurrected when the Kingdom of God is finally ruling the earth....according to Jesus. (John 5:28-29) He paid for our sins and he will be the one to restore the lives we lost. But not all will receive a resurrection.....there is a place where God sends the incorrigibly wicked....to remain dead forever....”Gehenna”. And God alone is the one who sentences them to that eternal death.
The resurrection is a return to life...not a continuation of it in the spirit realm. The dead are not in a conscious state. (Eccl 9:5, 10) They know nothing...feel nothing....can do nothing.
What do you see as our purpose here? Why did God create us as mortal beings on a material earth, if we have to endure suffering and pain and loss...? What is the end result?
Jesus did all the work and He paid the price that all might be saved......all anyone has to do is to simply yield and not resist Him. But as scripture speaks about, many do harden their hearts and resist the Spirit....they prefer the darkness because of their sins....and they don't want God to rule over them.
"All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people....."
No confusion, it's very simple. The "sentence" for sin is death, and the only way to secure a "pardon" is through faith in Christ....we need to have our names written in the Lamb's book of life.
Amen. Many try to eliminate the fear of God.........the Truth has always been under attack from counterfeit humanistic ideas born of the flesh and mind of man, which are fed to them by the serpent. As shepherdsword pointed out, it is the serpent who lies and says "thou shalt not surely die".
Similar threads
