The Third Woe

[Trekson]

The Three Woes.

Rev. 8:13 - " And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The first woe is completed by the 5th trump as found in Rev.9:12 - "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."
The second woe is completed by the 6th trump and after the Jerusalem earthquake that destroys a tenth of the city and kills 7000 Rev.11:13-14. - "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

The third woe sounds at the 7th trump ( the last time a “woe” is mentioned in Revelation in the KJ ) and is found in Rev. 11:15 - Just after the 7th trump sounds there is a short interlude in the narrative. The 7th trump completes the wrath of the Lamb and the angels are speaking forward in faith about what will come when the wrath of God is completed. Rev. 12:12 tells us what the third woe is" Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This third and final time a woe is mentioned is connected to the originating verse, Rev. 8:13 by the phrase, “woe to the inhabiters of the earth” (This is also the last time that phrase is used in the KJ). Since this is the case, shortly after this verse we find in Rev. 12:14 - "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

We also see in Rev. 13:5 that the Beast out of the Sea (the a/c) is given the equivalent time of 42 months.

As we all know the underlined times given means 3 1/2 yrs. So, here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week.

I've come up with another question and a possible, tentative alternative for my fellow futurists.
Who said that all the seals must be within the context of the 70th week? I've always believed they were but is there any scriptural "proof"?

Here's my tentative alternative. Could WW3 as shown in the 2nd seal begin the 70th week and could the a/c make a covenant based on that war that begins the week? The 1st seal doesn't imply that is when the covenant is signed. The a/c will need some time to earn his rep, so to speak and he comes conquering by deception, not war. Some event has to put him in the limelight for the folks in Rev. 13:4 to say what they do!
What do you guys think?

 

[TribulationSigns]

What do you guys think?

The “three woes” have nothing to do with a supposed antichrist figure, a seven-year peace treaty, Russia, or earthly Jerusalem. That interpretation reads headlines into the text.

The passage is about God’s New Testament congregation—His spiritual people—not modern geopolitics. Period.

Rev 8:13
(13) And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Fifth trumpet is the first woe
Sixth trump is the second woe
Seventh trump is the third woe

The woes speak of judgment upon the unfaithful congregation of God.

They are not centered on worldly empires or political alliances, but on God holding His own people accountable when they turn from truth. The warning is directed inward—toward those who bear His name yet walk in disobedience.

The beast, who was bound at the cross, could not be loosed until after all the elect — the true Congregation of Israel — were sealed by God. That sealing had to be completed first. This is why Christ had to build His Church first. God finishes His redemptive work before releasing judgment.

The first woe, then, is the loosening of the beast. The smoke and the locusts represent deception going forth upon those who were not sealed by God. The woe is upon them. They are given over to spiritual delusion because the time of sealing has ended. Once God has finished sealing all of His people, salvation is no longer extended.

Then comes the second woe — not as a continuation of evangelism, but as an escalation of judgment.

Rev 11:13-14
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

This passage describes the hour of judgment upon the unfaithful congregation of God — the whore who has become Babylon the Great.

The “great earthquake” signifies a profound spiritual shaking. God is shaking the very foundation of this city. It collapses because it has no true foundation in Christ. Its doctrines, worship, and leadership have departed from truth. Because of her abominations, she becomes desolate. Judgment has come, and her final destruction is imminent.

Just as the Old Testament congregation fell under judgment, so now the New Testament congregation — as an outward kingdom representation of God — falls under divine judgment.

The “tenth part of the city” represents the completeness of God’s house under judgment. It signifies that all within that system who are unsaved — including false prophets, false christs, and professing Christians without true salvation — are brought under judgment.

The “seven thousand” who are slain does not point to a literal number. In Scripture, seven and its multiples (7, 70, 700, 7,000) symbolize fullness or totality. This indicates the complete spiritual death of all who remain in that city. They are not slain physically, but spiritually — given over so that they cannot find salvation. As it is written, judgment begins at the house of God.

The “remnant” refers to those who were already sealed by God — the elect who had received the Holy Spirit. Their oil and wine are preserved. They are not part of the seven thousand. They have come out of Babylon the Great and, in godly fear, witness her fall.

Thus, the seven thousand signifies the total spiritual collapse of that great city. This is why the elect — as faithful stewards of the Gospel — can recognize the abomination of desolation within the church. They flee from her to avoid her plagues, proclaim her judgment, and mourn over her fall.

Why? Because what once outwardly represented God has now come under His wrath.

Rev 18:9-11
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
(11) And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

In this passage, the fall of Babylon is final and unmistakable. The judgment comes “in one hour” — suddenly, decisively, and without remedy.

From your perspective, the elect recognize that this is the moment when judgment has fallen upon the outward church system that has become Babylon. They understand that the sealing of God’s people has been completed, and therefore Christ’s coming — the third woe — is near.

The “merchants” mourning because no one buys their merchandise symbolizes something spiritual, not economic. The true servants of God carried the merchandise of the Gospel — salvation freely offered. But now, no one can “buy” it anymore. The day of salvation has closed. It is too late.

Those professing Christians who were never sealed by God will desire salvation — they will seek “death in Christ,” so to speak — but they will not find it. The opportunity has passed. Instead of receiving the true Gospel, they continue buying and selling the teachings of false prophets and false christs. This itself is part of God’s judgment: they are given over to deception.

This is the second woe — the realization that judgment has come upon the unfaithful congregation and that the door is shut.

(Continue to next post)

 

[TribulationSigns]

The third woe follows quickly, which you identify as the visible Second Coming of Christ — not a prolonged tribulation scheme, but the final and decisive return of the Lord in judgment.

Rev 11:14-15
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The sequence is crucial. Once the “hour” of judgment upon the unfaithful whore is completed, the third woe comes quickly. That third woe is announced by the sounding of the seventh trumpet — the last trumpet — marking the open and final triumph of Christ.

At that point, the kingdoms of this world are declared to belong to the Lord and His Christ. His reign is no longer resisted by rebellious systems. It is final, visible, and eternal.

We are not told the exact moment when that “hour” of judgment concludes. That is why Christ warned His people to watch. The “signs in the sun, moon, and stars” point to divine judgment of His rebellious House — symbolic language indicating that its foundational has been shaken (just like the mountain and island were removed out of their places). These signs alert believers that His coming is near.

The message is not date-setting, but watchfulness. When the one hour of appointed judgment is finished, the last trumpet will sound — and Christ will appear in glory. Which is why we read in Matthew 24...

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after the great tribulation for the saints within the church, the judgment of God upon that church brings that tribulation to an end for the elect. Why? Because they are obeying Christ’s command to flee. They come out of her and stand “afar off,” witnessing the judgment of the whore.

In doing so, they are no longer under that tribulation for they are separated from the city under wrath, just like Lot did with Sodom.

This is how they “see” the sun darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling, and the powers of heaven shaken. These are not literal astronomical events, but symbolic language describing the collapse of a spiritual kingdom. The visible congregation — once claiming to reflect God’s light — is darkened. Its authority structure is shaken. Its teachers, represented by the stars, fall.

The church, now dominated by false prophets and false christs, comes under divine judgment. What once appeared stable and luminous is exposed as corrupt and is brought down by God Himself.

When the elect "see" the “abomination of desolation” standing where it ought not, they recognize that judgment has come upon the unfaithful church. The darkening of the sun, moon, and stars represents the extinguishing of that church's representative of the Kingdom of God. The “powers of the heavens” being shaken refers to the collapse of its authority as a kingdom representative of God.

This period of judgment is described elsewhere symbolically as “one hour.” It is not necessarily sixty minutes, but a divinely appointed, brief season, and guess what? A Little Season! A season that we will "know that summer is near," Matthew 24:32-35. That allows a short span of time between the beginning of judgment and the visible appearing of Christ.

The great trumpet in verse 31 aligns with the seventh trumpet — which is the last trump. This is not a separate event but the same climactic moment: the Second Coming of Christ. At that sound, the elect are gathered from the four winds. For them, it is deliverance. For those not sealed by God, it is the final woe — irreversible judgment.

 

[rvmb]

The third woe follows quickly, which you identify as the visible Second Coming of Christ — not a prolonged tribulation scheme, but the final and decisive return of the Lord in judgment.

Rev 11:14-15
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The sequence is crucial. Once the “hour” of judgment upon the unfaithful whore is completed, the third woe comes quickly. That third woe is announced by the sounding of the seventh trumpet — the last trumpet — marking the open and final triumph of Christ.

At that point, the kingdoms of this world are declared to belong to the Lord and His Christ. His reign is no longer resisted by rebellious systems. It is final, visible, and eternal.

We are not told the exact moment when that “hour” of judgment concludes. That is why Christ warned His people to watch. The “signs in the sun, moon, and stars” point to divine judgment of His rebellious House — symbolic language indicating that its foundational has been shaken (just like the mountain and island were removed out of their places). These signs alert believers that His coming is near.

The message is not date-setting, but watchfulness. When the one hour of appointed judgment is finished, the last trumpet will sound — and Christ will appear in glory. Which is why we read in Matthew 24...

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after the great tribulation for the saints within the church, the judgment of God upon that church brings that tribulation to an end for the elect. Why? Because they are obeying Christ’s command to flee. They come out of her and stand “afar off,” witnessing the judgment of the whore.

In doing so, they are no longer under that tribulation for they are separated from the city under wrath, just like Lot did with Sodom.

This is how they “see” the sun darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling, and the powers of heaven shaken. These are not literal astronomical events, but symbolic language describing the collapse of a spiritual kingdom. The visible congregation — once claiming to reflect God’s light — is darkened. Its authority structure is shaken. Its teachers, represented by the stars, fall.

The church, now dominated by false prophets and false christs, comes under divine judgment. What once appeared stable and luminous is exposed as corrupt and is brought down by God Himself.

When the elect "see" the “abomination of desolation” standing where it ought not, they recognize that judgment has come upon the unfaithful church. The darkening of the sun, moon, and stars represents the extinguishing of that church's representative of the Kingdom of God. The “powers of the heavens” being shaken refers to the collapse of its authority as a kingdom representative of God.

This period of judgment is described elsewhere symbolically as “one hour.” It is not necessarily sixty minutes, but a divinely appointed, brief season, and guess what? A Little Season! A season that we will "know that summer is near," Matthew 24:32-35. That allows a short span of time between the beginning of judgment and the visible appearing of Christ.

The great trumpet in verse 31 aligns with the seventh trumpet — which is the last trump. This is not a separate event but the same climactic moment: the Second Coming of Christ. At that sound, the elect are gathered from the four winds. For them, it is deliverance. For those not sealed by God, it is the final woe — irreversible judgment.

All interesting to know about these events that will occur at a time after 1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52.

 

[Douggg]

As we all know the underlined times given means 3 1/2 yrs. So, here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week.

The third woe covers the time, times, haft time that Satan will have left, agreed.

But the trumpet judgements do not begin until after Satan is cast down to earth at the middle of the 70th week.

Note that woe 2, the third of mankind is killed when the four angels are released from the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14) coincides with the Euphrates river dried up at the time of the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out (Revelation 16:12).

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

The kings of the east (China and allies), their armies will make up the 200,000,000 of Revelation 9:16-19. They will pass through India, the largest national population presently at 1,476,625,476. (China number 2 at
1, 412,814,089. United States number 3 at 349,035,494.)

See the second diagram, I made down below. Then, the third diagram shows the beast king will meet his end between the seas (Daniel 11:45).

 

[Douggg]

I've come up with another question and a possible, tentative alternative for my fellow futurists.
Who said that all the seals must be within the context of the 70th week? I've always believed they were but is there any scriptural "proof"?

The first seal begins with the rider on the white horse (a messiah figure) is given a crown. That rider is the Antichrist person, anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews (for a while).

In that role, the Antichrist will make a big speech from the temple mount that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. The Antichrist does so in accordance to a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel. And the 7 years begin and also a false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety, 1Thesssalonians5:3.

(the 7 years cycle is in Deuteronomy 31:10, but has not been done in modern times because of the muslim presence on the temple mount - to end with the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39.)

 

[Douggg]

Here's my tentative alternative. Could WW3 as shown in the 2nd seal begin the 70th week and could the a/c make a covenant based on that war that begins the week? The 1st seal doesn't imply that is when the covenant is signed. The a/c will need some time to earn his rep, so to speak and he comes conquering by deception, not war. Some event has to put him in the limelight for the folks in Rev. 13:4 to say what they do!
What do you guys think?

No, basically what is going to happen is that the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is going to take place.

Then right afterward, the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 are going to take place. The action that will begin the 7 years, by confirming the covenant (the Mt Sinai covenant) will be the big speech by the Antichrist from the temple mount.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "with many" is an indication that the population of Israel will be much greater than it was back in Daniel's day when he received the prophecy.

One of the more popular, although incorrect, interpretations is that the covenant will be a peace treaty involving Israel and many other nations. That rationale is based in large part that in Daniel 8:25, the little horn person (the Antichrist) will destroy many by peace.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The third woe covers the time, times, haft time that Satan will have left, agreed.

Totally wrong. The third woe is the Seventh Trumpet which is the Last Trump. It is a single day event. Not a period of "time, times, and half a time". The Seventh Trump comes after time, times, and half a time, silly!

But the trumpet judgements do not begin until after Satan is cast down to earth at the middle of the 70th week.

Where does that say in Scripture?

Note that woe 2, the third of mankind is killed when the four angels are released from the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14) coincides with the Euphrates river dried up at the time of the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out (Revelation 16:12).

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

The kings of the east (China and allies), their armies will make up the 200,000,000 of Revelation 9:16-19. They will pass through India, the largest national population presently at 1,476,625,476. (China number 2 at
1, 412,814,089. United States number 3 at 349,035,494.)

Chinese army? Sigh. Let’s actually read what Book of Revelation 9:13–21 says instead of forcing world headlines and National Geography into the text.

Rev 9:13-21​

(13) And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,​

(14) Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.​

(15) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.​

(16) And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.​

(17) And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.​

(18) By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.​

(19) For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.​

(20) And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:​

(21) Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.​

Do you know who the four messengers are?

Do you understand what the “great river Euphrates” represents where the four messengers held? Hint, God did not talk about physical river here. Selah!

Do you know what the “hour, day, month, and year” refers to — or are we just skipping over that part because it doesn’t fit a modern military invasion theory?

Who exactly is “the third part of men”?

And these horsemen? These with fire, smoke, and brimstone coming out of their mouths — what do you think that means? Literal horsemen? Tanks? Attack helicopters? Or have you stopped to consider symbolic language?

The passage says their power is in their mouth and in their tails.
Their tails are like serpents. They hurt with them.

Have you asked yourself how someone harms with a mouth?
How power operates through speech?
How deception spreads, humm?

Or are we just defaulting to “2 million soldiers from China."? Ohhhh how sounds dramatic?

Verse 20–21 makes it even clearer: despite the plagues, people do not repent of idolatry, sorcery, fornication, and murder. The focus is spiritual corruption and hardened hearts — yet somehow you are more interested into troop counts and geopolitics?

What were you thinking? Because China and India have large populations, that must mean the 200 million horsemen are a modern Asian army marching toward national Israel?

That’s the depth of the interpretation? Really?!

This is exactly what happens when prophecy is interpreted through news headlines instead of Scripture interpreting Scripture. Instead of asking what the symbols mean, people rush to attach them to whatever flavor of the month nations currently makes the evening news. Oh, and the blood moon. Geez.

If we’re going to handle God’s Word, especially a book like Revelation, we should at least respect the imagery enough to study it before assigning it a passport.

Otherwise, we’re not interpreting prophecy — we’re just speculating loudly as you always does... with your false premillennial charts.

 

[Trekson]

The third woe follows quickly, which you identify as the visible Second Coming of Christ — not a prolonged tribulation scheme, but the final and decisive return of the Lord in judgment.

Rev 11:14-15
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The sequence is crucial. Once the “hour” of judgment upon the unfaithful whore is completed, the third woe comes quickly. That third woe is announced by the sounding of the seventh trumpet — the last trumpet — marking the open and final triumph of Christ.

At that point, the kingdoms of this world are declared to belong to the Lord and His Christ. His reign is no longer resisted by rebellious systems. It is final, visible, and eternal.

We are not told the exact moment when that “hour” of judgment concludes. That is why Christ warned His people to watch. The “signs in the sun, moon, and stars” point to divine judgment of His rebellious House — symbolic language indicating that its foundational has been shaken (just like the mountain and island were removed out of their places). These signs alert believers that His coming is near.

The message is not date-setting, but watchfulness. When the one hour of appointed judgment is finished, the last trumpet will sound — and Christ will appear in glory. Which is why we read in Matthew 24...

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after the great tribulation for the saints within the church, the judgment of God upon that church brings that tribulation to an end for the elect. Why? Because they are obeying Christ’s command to flee. They come out of her and stand “afar off,” witnessing the judgment of the whore.

In doing so, they are no longer under that tribulation for they are separated from the city under wrath, just like Lot did with Sodom.

This is how they “see” the sun darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling, and the powers of heaven shaken. These are not literal astronomical events, but symbolic language describing the collapse of a spiritual kingdom. The visible congregation — once claiming to reflect God’s light — is darkened. Its authority structure is shaken. Its teachers, represented by the stars, fall.

The church, now dominated by false prophets and false christs, comes under divine judgment. What once appeared stable and luminous is exposed as corrupt and is brought down by God Himself.

When the elect "see" the “abomination of desolation” standing where it ought not, they recognize that judgment has come upon the unfaithful church. The darkening of the sun, moon, and stars represents the extinguishing of that church's representative of the Kingdom of God. The “powers of the heavens” being shaken refers to the collapse of its authority as a kingdom representative of God.

This period of judgment is described elsewhere symbolically as “one hour.” It is not necessarily sixty minutes, but a divinely appointed, brief season, and guess what? A Little Season! A season that we will "know that summer is near," Matthew 24:32-35. That allows a short span of time between the beginning of judgment and the visible appearing of Christ.

The great trumpet in verse 31 aligns with the seventh trumpet — which is the last trump. This is not a separate event but the same climactic moment: the Second Coming of Christ. At that sound, the elect are gathered from the four winds. For them, it is deliverance. For those not sealed by God, it is the final woe — irreversible judgment.

One understands scripture a whole lot better when they take a literal approach to understanding Rev. instead of making up unrelated spiritual aspects that is in no way associated w/ what the scriptures are teaching.

 

[TribulationSigns]

One understands scripture a whole lot better when they take a literal approach to understanding Rev. instead of making up unrelated spiritual aspects that is in no way associated w/ what the scriptures are teaching.

LOL!!!

The problem with saying Revelation should be read literally is that the book itself is symbolic. God didn’t write it to be a simple news report or a literal instruction manual. It is full of visions, signs, and imagery that require spiritual discernment to understand — which is why the Spirit must guide the reader.

You cannot just take words at face value — the horses, the woman in heaven, the smoke locusts, the beasts, the sea, blood, etc. — all have defined meanings in Scripture. If you ignore the rest of God’s Word and try to assign them to modern armies, political events, or worldly news, you are reading Revelation through a carnal lens, not a spiritual one. This is why your doctrine will not pass the test of Scripture. Selah!

True understanding comes from comparing Revelation with the rest of Scripture, seeing how God defines His symbols, and letting the Spirit reveal their meaning. Anything else is speculation — and sadly, that’s exactly what most literalist interpretations end up doing: forcing the text into worldly headlines instead of letting it teach what God intended.

 

[Trekson]

The third woe covers the time, times, haft time that Satan will have left, agreed.

But the trumpet judgements do not begin until after Satan is cast down to earth at the middle of the 70th week.

Note that woe 2, the third of mankind is killed when the four angels are released from the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14) coincides with the Euphrates river dried up at the time of the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out (Revelation 16:12).

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

The kings of the east (China and allies), their armies will make up the 200,000,000 of Revelation 9:16-19. They will pass through India, the largest national population presently at 1,476,625,476. (China number 2 at
1, 412,814,089. United States number 3 at 349,035,494.)

See the second diagram, I made down below. Then, the third diagram shows the beast king will meet his end between the seas (Daniel 11:45).


View attachment 80735

View attachment 80736

View attachment 80737

The third woe covers the time, times, haft time that Satan will have left, agreed.

But the trumpet judgements do not begin until after Satan is cast down to earth at the middle of the 70th week.

Note that woe 2, the third of mankind is killed when the four angels are released from the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14) coincides with the Euphrates river dried up at the time of the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out (Revelation 16:12).

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

The kings of the east (China and allies), their armies will make up the 200,000,000 of Revelation 9:16-19. They will pass through India, the largest national population presently at 1,476,625,476. (China number 2 at
1, 412,814,089. United States number 3 at 349,035,494.)

See the second diagram, I made down below. Then, the third diagram shows the beast king will meet his end between the seas (Daniel 11:45).


View attachment 80735

View attachment 80736

View attachment 80737

The trumpets and bowls/vials are not the same. The third woe is 'not" a period of time, it is a single momentary event. There is no time line given for the AoD.

 

[Trekson]

No, basically what is going to happen is that the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is going to take place.

Then right afterward, the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 are going to take place. The action that will begin the 7 years, by confirming the covenant (the Mt Sinai covenant) will be the big speech by the Antichrist from the temple mount.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "with many" is an indication that the population of Israel will be much greater than it was back in Daniel's day when he received the prophecy.

One of the more popular, although incorrect, interpretations is that the covenant will be a peace treaty involving Israel and many other nations. That rationale is based in large part that in Daniel 8:25, the little horn person (the Antichrist) will destroy many by peace.

The Gog/Magog war is post mill. The covenant the a/c makes is Not a religious one. It is a type of peace treaty that Dan. 11:22-23 affirms. The word "league" means covenant.

 

[Douggg]

The third woe is the Seventh Trumpet which is the Last Trump.

The trumpet itself is not a woe.

The seventh trumpet sounding initiates the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth. When the seventh angel sounds his trumpet, it will be the signal for Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.

Once cast down to earth, Satan's great wrath will be the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12.

Where does that say in Scripture?

Because none of the first six trumpet judgements, as described in Revelation 8-9, are mentioned in Revelation 11 during the 1260 days of the two witnesses. The 1260 days of the two witnesses is in the first half of the seven years.

 

[Trekson]

LOL!!!

The problem with saying Revelation should be read literally is that the book itself is symbolic. God didn’t write it to be a simple news report or a literal instruction manual. It is full of visions, signs, and imagery that require spiritual discernment to understand — which is why the Spirit must guide the reader.

You cannot just take words at face value — the horses, the woman in heaven, the smoke locusts, the beasts, the sea, blood, etc. — all have defined meanings in Scripture. If you ignore the rest of God’s Word and try to assign them to modern armies, political events, or worldly news, you are reading Revelation through a carnal lens, not a spiritual one. This is why your doctrine will not pass the test of Scripture. Selah!

True understanding comes from comparing Revelation with the rest of Scripture, seeing how God defines His symbols, and letting the Spirit reveal their meaning. Anything else is speculation — and sadly, that’s exactly what most literalist interpretations end up doing: forcing the text into worldly headlines instead of letting it teach what God intended.

No, it is "not" symbolic. It does use some symbolism but it is usually explained somewhere in the text. No explanation, take it literal. The word 'signified" does "not" mean symbolized, it means "authenticated" in the manner that a 'signet" ring was used to let someone know that the message rec'd was the real deal and not something false. It is most likely speaking of the seven seals as well.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, basically what is going to happen is that the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is going to take place.

Then right afterward, the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 are going to take place.

You got the timings all wrong.

The action that will begin the 7 years, by confirming the covenant (the Mt Sinai covenant) will be the big speech by the Antichrist from the temple mount.

A man giving big speech after signing the so-called Mount Sinai Covenant? Boy you are dreaming..

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"He" is Messiah the Prince, according to context. Not your fantasy third party evil prince.

The "with many" is an indication that the population of Israel will be much greater than it was back in Daniel's day when he received the prophecy.

Wrongo! Christ confirmed a covenant with many people (His Elect). Not everyone on Earth. So the "with many" has nothing to do with "population of Israel" in the Middle East. Selah!

One of the more popular, although incorrect, interpretations is that the covenant will be a peace treaty involving Israel and many other nations.

Both the peace treaty and Mount Sinai Covenant are false. It is the New Covenant that Christ confirmed.

That rationale is based in large part that in Daniel 8:25, the little horn person (the Antichrist) will destroy many by peace.

Little horn person? You make it up. You do not even understand God's definition for horn in Scripture.

 

[Trekson]

The trumpet itself is not a woe.

The seventh trumpet sounding initiates the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth. When the seventh angel sounds his trumpet, it will be the signal for Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.

Once cast down to earth, Satan's great wrath will be the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12.


Because none of the first six trumpet judgements, as described in Revelation 8-9, are mentioned in Revelation 11 during the 1260 days of the two witnesses. The 1260 days of the two witnesses is in the first half of the seven years.


View attachment 80749

Although it looks pretty, dividing the week into two equal halves isn't the right way to go as in reality the prophesied events don't line up that way. For ex. according to the prophecies, the 2300 days, the 1290 days and the "midst" of the week (which doesn't mean half, it means in the context of) all must start on the 'same" day!

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, it is "not" symbolic.

It is symbolic. For example:

Rev 12:1

• And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

You believe in literal interpretation. Tell me, does the verse tell you that the woman literally floating in heaven or space? Did she wear the sun as her clothing? Her crown made of two balls of fire?

It does use some symbolism

Ah, so now you admit it? LOL. Fine—show me an example.

but it is usually explained somewhere in the text.

Okay… then show me the text.

No explanation, take it literal.

Did God tell you that?

The word 'signified" does "not" mean symbolized, it means "authenticated" in the manner that a 'signet" ring was used to let someone know that the message rec'd was the real deal and not something false. It is most likely speaking of the seven seals as well.

Frankly, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

 

[Douggg]

The trumpets and bowls/vials are not the same.

I agree. Vial 2 is an intensification of Trumpet 2. Vial 3 is an intensification of Trumpet 3.

The third woe is 'not" a period of time, it is a single momentary event. There is no time line given for the AoD.

The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, Satan cast down having great wrath knowing his time is short. His time left is the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 that he will seek to persecute the woman - Israel.

The AoD set up is in Daniel 12:11-12, to last 1335 days until Jesus returns.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I agree. Vial 2 is an intensification of Trumpet 2. Vial 3 is an intensification of Trumpet 3.

View attachment 80750

You placed third woe BEFORE the first and second woe?! LOL!!!! Can't you read the Scripture?

Rev 11:14-15
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Notice how Verse 14 actually says the third woe comes after the second woe has ended? That’s when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord.

Not when Satan gets tossed to Earth to throw a tantrum for “a time, times, and half a time.” Nope.

The text literally says: “The second woe is past… the third woe cometh quickly.”

So yeah… you really messed this up big time.

 

[Trekson]

It is symbolic. For example:

Rev 12:1

• And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

You believe in literal interpretation. Tell me, does the verse tell you that the woman literally floating in heaven or space? Did she wear the sun as her clothing? Her crown made of two balls of fire?



Ah, so now you admit it? LOL. Fine—show me an example.



Okay… then show me the text.



Did God tell you that?



Frankly, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

The symbolism of Rev. 12 is taken from Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9. Rev.1:12, 16 explained in vs. 20. Rev. 13:1 explained in Rev. 17: 8-13. I do know what I'm talking about as I have been studying prophecy for decades. I was also able to do what you asked and I bet you believed I couldn't do it!