Do you like, dislike, or are neutral on Israel?

[ProDeo]

What does God think of Israel?

That's the big question and I don't know the answer.

 

[HealthyShape]

Today's state of Israel is religiously mostly atheist and genetically quite mixed. This state has no covenant with God, no prophets and no clean continuation of the Abrahamic line. So, let us judge it as we would judge any other country - USA, Germany, Russia or Japan. Despite the name, it is just a secular state, today.

God is blessing the countries according to how they receive Christ and Christians, His children. And the Christian countries or the countries applying Christian ethical principles are the countries with the best quality of life.

Christianity transforms the heart of people and in the process also the state of affairs in a country with many sincere Christians. Which makes it to be such a good place to live in that even people from other religions and cultures desire to move there.

 

[Mosheli]

What is their biggest fault?

Well I guess their biggest fault(s) maybe include all the bad things they (Zionists/Globalists) have allegedly done to Western & former Eastern gentiles (though alot may be the Vatican's and other "white" globalists' fault really/too?), and trying to set up a state and fight the Moslem/Arab/Palestinian world without God &/or while still rejecting the messiah Yeshua (allegedly killing and displacing alot of Palestinians etc in the process), and trying to set up a false messianic world peace without true messiah/God. (Not that anyone else including me are perfect either but just saying why I picked neutral on "Israel".)

(Correct me if I am wrong about anything. I don't know everything, I only have to guess by what I see or hear from various different sides informations. I keep track of mainstream Western info also including Jewish info, nationalist info, Christian/Messianic info, "Satanist" info, even a little Arab/Moslem info, and try to weigh what is and isn't true while being careful to seek God/bible first and foremost.)

The bible hints at these things. In Revelation even though the beast and harlot don't seem to be Israeli, Israel is called "Sodom and Egypt". Maybe one reason the beast is so anti-semitic and ant-christian is seemingly because of wrongs Jews allegedly done in the last centuries? Bible implies only 1/3rd of Jews saved in tribulation?

 

[Mosheli]

Today's state of Israel is religiously mostly atheist and genetically quite mixed. This state has no covenant with God, no prophets and no clean continuation of the Abrahamic line. So, let us judge it as we would judge any other country - USA, Germany, Russia or Japan. Despite the name, it is just a secular state, today.

God is blessing the countries according to how they receive Christ and Christians, His children. And the Christian countries or the countries applying Christian ethical principles are the countries with the best quality of life.

Christianity transforms the heart of people and in the process also the state of affairs in a country with many sincere Christians. Which makes it to be such a good place to live in that even people from other religions and cultures desire to move there.

I agree with what you said except for the last block. The West isn't such a great place for some of us eg mass unemployment and beneficiary bashing (caused by free trade etc), housing crisis and homeless bashing (caused by mass immigration etc), mass fluoridation, bad food (sprays, fluoridation, sugar heaped, salt heaped, etc etc), artificial clothes, and many other bad things. Many "christians" here have no love/care/help/compassion etc. Immigrants have always been attracted to high cultures throughout cyclical world history. Though your right that many sincere christians seemingly make better country. But I guess that I'm going off topic sorry, though some say the Zionists are behind those things.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you believe that Jesus will succeed in his mission to unite all things to himself as described here?

Ephesians 1:7-10
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Yes, I absolutely agree with Paul’s words there.....but you have to understand who Paul is addressing.
Who is “we” “our” and “us”?

Jesus spoke of his “chosen ones”...the ones who were invited to share rulership with him in heaven, often called his “elect”, which by the very nature of the word, means ones who are elected or chosen for a specific purpose or role.
Rev 20:6 tells us...
“Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.”

The chosen ones are described here, invited to rule with Jesus in heaven as “kings and priests”....these receive the “first resurrection”...meaning that another one was to follow......but over whom will they rule? Who will be their subjects?

The first of those ‘chosen ones’ were the apostles....and other faithful men and women in that period were also added.....but an apostasy was foretold by Jesus and his disciples.....the church was going to suffer under the influence of men who led people in the wrong direction, and turned the church into a hierarchy with men becoming carried away by their own importance.

The moment you give men power, it corrupts them. They claimed religious titles, and distinctive clothing and were given authority that outweighed their positions of service, not positions of power....like the Pharisees in Jesus’ day, they wanted attention for themselves. And bloodshed was on their mind, when God never authorised Christians to shed blood. We are to be at peace in a world immersed in violence and immorality.

During the time when the apostasy held Christianity back, not many were chosen, but at the time of Christ’s return, they would increase.

This is why I asked you if you knew what God’s Kingdom is?

 

[Wrangler]

also believe that the best thing for all involved is that Israel govern the so-called "West Bank" and Gaza.

I read that Israel never wanted to rule Gaza. Not sure what the history is the West Bank but I know Trump said that if they take it over, that'll ruin their relationship with us. (I believe the US made guarantees to certain Arab nations about that).

I've never been friends with or closely known any Jewish people.

Unlike Americans today, they are proud of their ancient heritage. It's a way of thinking that is now foreign to us.

My aunt was neither political nor religious. She was, however, a strong personality, powerfully speaking her mind in truth and grace and love.

 

[Wrangler]

What does it matter what we think of Israel?

Some people like to engage in personal conversation.

That is a nice thought...but it is not what Scripture teaches at all

I'm surprised you're on the internet, using electricity and posting in an online forum. Scripture doesn't teach this at all.

LOL. So funny how you pick and choose when to stick to Scripture and when to leave off from it. It really is. Do you brush your teeth? Scripture doesn't teach this at all.

Does the killing of apr. 75.000 people in Gaza count,
or is that just a minor issue to you?

It counts to why I like Israel so much. Thanks for bringing it up. So many of your posts are slanderous with no references but we all know you take the side opposite of America and her allies. Hamas deserves all the credit for those killed in Gaza.

Today's delusional Leftists think the bear should be blamed for the consequences of a very foolish person poking the bear. Hamas chose death. Blame them. Hamas is supposed to protect its people and they're totally incompetent. Compare to Singapore or the Vatican, other small countries that don't start wars and blame the victors for winning.

You statements are so bizarre and devoid of critical thinking. Just parrot Woke talking points.

 

[Wrangler]

The moment you give men power, it corrupts them.

Not just men. People are corrupt, independent of power. However, there is no other practical choice. This is why you could not answer my question of whether Christians are better off being ruled by Atheists or Satanists. You are not embracing true Christianity, which is highly practical.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm just curious as to how many of my "Christian" brethren despise Israel.

It’s not about despising the Jews any more than we may despise any other nations who engage in armed warfare. The warfare itself involves weaponry that takes many innocent lives en masse, as mere “collateral damage”. Is that OK with God? What side does God take in these political conflicts? Life is precious to him.

Being “no part of the world” means what it says....the world is ruled by the devil, (1 John 5:19) so if God allows him to do do whatever he likes, why do we rush to fix what God has not. Is God powerless....? Or is he waiting for something?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm surprised you're on the internet, using electricity and posting in an online forum. Scripture doesn't teach this at all.

LOL. So funny how you pick and choose when to stick to Scripture and when to leave off from it. It really is. Do you brush your teeth? Scripture doesn't teach this at all.

That was a very immature response Wrangler....your posts are becoming bizarre. Are you OK?
What do these things have to do with the Bible?
I stick to Scripture for all my responses....if it is important...it’s in the Bible......a book you seem to give only a cursory reading.....attention deficit problems defeat you. It’s a sad affliction.

Not just men. People are corrupt, independent of power.

Is that your perception? You don’t see that people fall into only two categories in this world....leaders and followers....influencers and those they influence....
Do you know how propaganda works? Stop watching the news....in a world ruled by the devil...there are no good guys. Propaganda will sway you one way or the other....when you take sides in the devil’s world, you lose your place in God’s kingdom.

You cannot have a foot in both camps.

However, there is no other practical choice.

Who said we need any choice other than the ones God gives us?.....what does “practical” even mean when “the whole world” is under satan’s control. (1 John 5:19)
Why are we told to “endure” what the world is doing with Gods permission?

Did he tell you to support Israel? Did he tell America and her allies to supply weapons and military assistance whilst Israel is bombing the daylights out of her enemies?

This is why you could not answer my question of whether Christians are better off being ruled by Atheists or Satanists. You are not embracing true Christianity, which is highly practical.

I wasn’t aware that you even asked the question...but since you did....it doesn’t matter who is ruling any nation, because the one pulling all the strings is God’s adversary. “The whole world” doesn’t leave anyone out...Jesus stayed right away from politics....knowing that in his due time, his Father would put everything to right. He never told his disciples to fight anything but spiritual warfare, with spiritual armor, and only one weapon...God’s word.

“True Christianity” is emulating Christ...who wouldn’t touch politics with a barge pole.
His own people were oppressed, and their land occupied by foreigners with false religion....if anyone had a right to zap his enemies out of existence it was him.....yet he never engaged in political dialogue or threats of revolt....because his real enemies were his own people. They treated him worse than the foreigners did.

 

[Wrangler]

The warfare itself involves weaponry that takes many innocent lives en masse, as mere “collateral damage”. Is that OK with God?

Yup. 100%. Humanity is collateral damage. Dominion is our command. The Fall had collateral damage. The Flood had collateral damage.

Don't fool yourself into believing God commanded us to make an omelette but not to break any eggs.

What side does God take in these political conflicts?

The winning side.

Being “no part of the world” means what it says....the world is ruled by the devil, (1 John 5:19) so if God allows him to do do whatever he likes, why do we rush to fix what God has not.

It's like you have no concept of our role in God's plan where our burden is to act not merely be acted upon! Do justice. Micah 6:8. The great commission does not say baptize individuals but baptize all nations - and it means what it says, ACT on the important role nations have in God's kingdom.

 

[Wrangler]

That was a very immature response Wrangler....your posts are becoming bizarre. Are you OK?
What do these things have to do with the Bible?

Wrong. It's a very mature and wise response! All you got is personal attack, which shows you lost the argument.

You pick and choose where to apply the Bible. And your inability or unwillingness to answer my questions about your choice to use electricity and so on reveals the truth. The Bible doesn't teach something is your rational for not doing it except for all your exceptions. It's pitiful.

 

[Wrangler]

You cannot have a foot in both camps.

Yet, Jesus commanded us to do precisely that, have a foot in both camps. GIVE TO CEASAR WHAT IS CEASAR'S.

 

[Wrangler]

Who said we need any choice other than the ones God gives us?

That's wacked. "Need" is the language of communist ideology.

 

[Wrangler]

Did he tell you to support Israel?

Yes. Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you,
But I will curse those who curse you.
And through you I will bless all the nations.

Numbers 24:9
Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed,
And whoever curses Israel will be cursed.”

 

[soberxp]

Why not follow Jesus' example and sell one's own land to distribute it to the Palestinians who have no land?


10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

 

[Wrangler]

Why not follow Jesus' example and sell one's own land to distribute it to the Palestinians who have no land?

Jesus never owned land to sell. So, you are not suggesting we follow Jesus’ example.

He told one guy to sell his possessions but not because of the need of others. He knew material love was holding that man back spiritually.

This nuance makes the spiritually immature confused and falsely conclude their are contradictions. Sometimes the Spirit tells one person To go left, another person to go right. Jesus drank alcohol. John the Baptist didn’t drink alcohol.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes. Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

This is about Christians, not about the secular state of Israel. Christians are the true children of Abraham.

 

[Wrangler]

This is about Christians, not about the secular state of Israel. Christians are the true children of Abraham.

So, do you interpret the question to ask if Christians should support Christians or do you like or dislike Christians?

Aren't we supposed to love others? I'm really interested in your take on this.

 

[HealthyShape]

So, do you interpret the question to ask if Christians should support Christians or do you like or dislike Christians?

Aren't we supposed to love others? I'm really interested in your take on this.

My point is that Genesis 12:3 is about Christians. Nations are blessed based on how they receive Christians and Christians are the true children of Abraham.

Genesis 12:3 is not about the secular state of Israel in the 21st century.