Who is Israel?
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And after we are not on earth, the Lord deals with Israel and gets them to say uncle.
Truth7t7
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The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:36-37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers) He will be a King/Ruler
(Daniel) 11:36-37KJV
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Examples: God Of His Fathers
(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.
(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.
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The Jews rejected Jesus (a Jew) as their King of Israel messiah. But will receive another Jew as their King of Israel messiah.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
In Daniel 11:37, the Antichrist person, in his beast stage, will not regard the God of his fathers. Indicating that he will be a Jew.
Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
In Isaiah 14,:20, he is guilty of destroying his land (Israel), and slaying his people (the Jews).
Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
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The Jews (Judaism) are looking for the coming of their King of Israel messiah. That person must be a Jew to become the King of Israel, and that person will be the Antichrist.
What verse are you basing the 4/5 on ?
Revelation 12:12 is the first half of the seven years. Revelation 12:14 is the second half of the seven years. Revelation 12:10 is in the middle of the seven years.
The Jews en masse will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in Revelation 12:10 in the middle of the seven years.
The Light
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The Light
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The Jews rejected Jesus and He came in His Father's name.
If another comes in his own name him, they will receive.
Nothing there says He is a Jew. Nothing at all.
How can that be Doug? In Daniel 11:37, the text is talking about the 7th king. This king is a former king of the North that is given the Stephanos crown which is the crown of the United Nations Nothing whatsoever says he will be a Jew.
More likely he will be a Muslim, from a Christian nation.
And he will be gay.
You need to keep reading Doug. All the verses in Isaiah 14 are about the King of Babylon, who was and is not and will come again. This is Nimrod. The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done
These verses are talking about the 8th king. The 7th king, will cause the earth to worship the 8th king.
Isaiah 14
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
This person is also an Assyrian. Nimrod is the only person that was King of Babylon and an Assyrian.
Isaiah 14
23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
The Jews will receive this king, but when the AOD is set up, which is an image of this beast, one third will flee to the place of protection.
There is absolutely no scripture that says that this person is a Jew.
Jesus gives warning about this 8th king in Matthew 24.
Matthew 24
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
The Light
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The Jews rejected Jesus as their King of Israel messiah.
You can go to any Jewish (Judaism) website and find that their King of Israel messiah must be a Jew.
The Judaism101 site has much to say about the messiah. For example...
"The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.
Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)
Traditional Jewish concept of the messiah (mashiach): what he will be like, what he will do, what the messianic age will be like, and why Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah.
www.jewfaq.org
What qualifies somebody to claim to be the physical descendant of Abraham, today, 4,000 years after Abraham?
Be specific and concrete.
Isaiah 14 is a series of prophecies, that will take place in different segments of time.
For example, Isaiah 14:12-15 is talking about Satan's desire to achieve God-hood. Which indicates that Satan will enter the Antichrist when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. Revealing himself to be the man of sin.
Read verses 14-15 and then read...
verse16. Is verse 16 talking about Satan, or the assassinated man of sin ?
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
In verse 19, the assassinated man of sin will not be allowed to remain dead and receive an ornate tomb, because of his acts of destroying his land (Israel) and his people (the Jew) in verse 20.
Verse 20 ends that segment of prophecy to take place in the end times.
Verse 21-32 switches back to the time of the Assyrians and king Ahaz (verse 28). I did a google search on when did king Ahaz lived and go this AI response...
King Ahaz of Judah reigned during the 8th century BC, with most scholars placing his 16-year rule between approximately 735–715 BC. He was the son of Jotham, ascended the throne at age 20, and was known for his alliance with Assyria and promoting idolatry during the Syro-Ephraimite War.
If you want to claim that you know that Jesus returns to take up believers in the clouds, exactly, and that it is during the wrath of God, you would need to prove it. Also, JHe andesus does not return 'one time' as you suggest. He also returns in the very end of the Tribulation and comes right down to the earth and rules it and judges the wicked etc. When He returns to take us UP to be WITH Him, we then go to New Jerusalem (heaven) to wait till Jesus returns with us to the earth at the end of the Tribulation.
I actually said 'what was it' and then mentioned 4/5. So now I will search for the exact number for you.
-- OK so here it is The actual number is 2/3. Before this time, however, there was a great persecution and murder and wars etc etc etc as well . So the 2/3 in all the land there killed in the very end is just one event!
Zechariah 13:8
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord , two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Rev 12:12 is about the dragon being cast to earth. I think some people feel that this happens at the start of the Tribulation. Others, like you see it as the beginning of the whole seven years.
Rev 12:14 the people fleeing is an event and marker for the Great Tribulation, but again just one verse and prophesy about the time. There are many to get a fuller picture
Rev 12:10 actually is again referring to the casting out of Satan. Not sure why you offered it as some marked of the middle of the seven years.
The 'en mass' will be a remnant that are still alive at that time in the end, after untold numbers die in war and persecution etc as well as the event in the end where ALSO 2/3 of them die. Very properly referred to as a remnant!
Ronald Nolette
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well maybe you need to read Scripture more. the nation rejecting Messiah was foretold as was the gospel going out ot the gentiles. for now as a nation Israel is set aside for the bringing in of th eGentiles. Once the pleroma of Gentiles is brought in - then all the nation of Israel surviving will be saved. this is both old and new testament prophecy that will come to pass.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well that is a given. Jews who do not receive Christ are lost. but in the end before Jesus returns- the entire nation of Israel that has survived (the 1/3 of Ze3ch 13) will receive Jesus as Messiah. It is their prayer for Messiah to return that brings the physical return of Jesus to earth.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I can't answer that for you in all its specifics. What I can say conclusively is that God knows who are descenadants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even if we in our feeble attempts cannot discern that.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Children of Satan. Jews who did not follow through on their covenant with God are regarded as "Not My People." Hosea 1. It doesn't mean they weren't Jewish. It just meant they were no longer "favored Jews."
Rev 3.9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
This is not a statement determining ethnicity or nationality. Rather, it is a statement of fidelity. If a Jew, who was called to represent God as His child, no longer acted and spoke as a child of God, he was for all intents and purposes no longer a child of God.
Paul explains this...
Rom 2.12 all who sin under the law will be judged by the law... 17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God... 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." ...28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Paul is here not denying that a Jew is a Jew in the ethnic sense. On the contrary, he confirms this.
Rather, he is saying that when one chooses to act outside of the constraints of God's Law, no longer acting as a Jew should act, then he has disqualified himself as acting on behalf of Jews. He is, in a sense, no longer a Jew--even though ethnically he remains Jewish.
In other words, a Jew remains a Jew on the outside, but his identity in the spiritual sense must also be confirmed on the inside. "A person is not a Jew who is "only only outwardly." That is, he is externally a Jew, but to prove his legitimacy as a representative of the Jewish calling he must be a Jew inwardly as well.
Under the New Covenant, acting as a Jew should mean one would conform to Christ. Not doing so would be acting "unJewish."
Being Jewish is either about being an ethnic, physical Jew, or it is about acting as a Jew should act in covenant with God. In saying one is not a Jew is more, however, than just saying one is acting improperly as a Jew. It is a claim that a person has committed apostasy in the way he has chosen to completely surrender acting in a Jewish way.
No, Hebrews were Hebrews in the wilderness whether they obeyed or disobeyed. After the Babylonian Captivity Jews were viewed as Jews whether or not they obeyed. Paul, in the NT Scriptures, claimed that Jews had determined to essentially become non-Jews by choosing to act unlike the way Jews should act. He was not saying they surrendered their Jewish ethnicity or nationality.
On the contrary, how many did God promise would get saved *before they were saved? Many who have come to fulfill God's promise to Abraham began as unbelievers. The promise included a guarantee that many unbelievers would become believers.
If you're premillennial like I am you may see Israel a complete nation politically without every individual getting saved. The message is that the nation will be whole politically and geographically. And the national constitution will be fully Christian, allowing for individuals to decide Salvation on their own.
Nations are not God's enemy just because they are not Christian nations. Israel has been acting in the interest of self-preservation. And I believe God wants them to do that, Christian or not.
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