The interpretation of Phil 2: 1 -11 - in proper context and theme

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Justified

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(Php 2:5) Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.

(Php 2:6) Who, though being in the mental image of God, did not consider grasping at being equal with God,
(Php 2:7) but poured himself out, taking the mental attitude of a servant, and was the made just the same as all ordinary men.
(Php 2:8) And being perceived as a normal man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,
(Php 2:11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The theme of Philippians 2 is “having the mind of Christ.” (Phil 2:5). Purpose and context of the passage: The hymn is not a creedal statement but an ethical exhortation (v.5): “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus.” Paul uses a well-known hymn to encourage humility and selflessness among the Philippians.

In verses 6-11, the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah is provided as the principal example of the humility and obedience we all should have. Also emphasized, is the reward that Yeshua received from selfless service and obedience (Phil 2:8-11).
Yes, the whole point of Phil. 2:1-11 is to show the humility of Christ as an example for us to follow. And there is no greater example of humility that can be given or even imagined than God becoming one of his creatures in order to save us from ourselves, to save us from our sin.

However, this passage does not teach that Yeshua was God and then became a man.
Yes, it most certainly does.

The phrase "being in the form of God" refers to Yeshua’s Messianic and then post-resurrection status,
No, it certainly does not. It is clearly talking about his mode of existence prior to becoming human. The word used for "being" is huparchōn, and is in the present tense, meaning that it is continuous. The better translation is "existing," that is, "existing in the form of God."

not an eternal divine nature.
It can only be referring to an eternal divine nature, as we'll see.

Key points of interpretation include:

"Form of God" (μορφή θεοῦ): this refers to role, status, or authority, not ontological divinity. It reflects Yeshua's divine function after exaltation, not an inherent nature.
Please provide legitimate, scholarly sources to back up these claims.

Here is from M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament:

"Form (μορφή). We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophic sense, to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character. Thus it is distinguished from σχῆμα fashion, comprising that which appeals to the senses and which is changeable. Μορφή form is identified with the essence of a person or thing: σχῆμα fashion is an accident which may change without affecting the form.

As applied here to God, the word is intended to describe that mode in which the essential being of God expresses itself. We have no word which can convey this meaning, nor is it possible for us to formulate the reality.
...

This mode of expression, this setting of the divine essence, is not identical with the essence itself, but is identified with it, as its natural and appropriate expression, answering to it in every particular. It is the perfect expression of a perfect essence. It is not something imposed from without, but something which proceeds from the very depth of the perfect being, and into which that being perfectly unfolds, as light from fire. To say, then, that Christ was in the form of God, is to say that He existed as essentially one with God. The expression of deity through human nature (Php 2:7) thus has its background in the expression of deity as deity in the eternal ages of God's being. Whatever the mode of this expression, it marked the being of Christ in the eternity before creation. As the form of God was identified with the being of God, so Christ, being in the form of God, was identified with the being, nature, and personality of God.

This form, not being identical with the divine essence, but dependent upon it, and necessarily implying it, can be parted with or laid aside. Since Christ is one with God, and therefore pure being, absolute existence, He can exist without the form. This form of God Christ laid aside in His incarnation."


Also, as Kenneth Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testaments states:

"Thus the Greek word for "form" refers to that outward expression which a person gives of his inmost nature. This expression is not assumed from the outside, but proceeds directly from within. To illustrate: "I went to a tennis match yesterday. The winning player's form was excellent." We mean by that, that the outward expression he gave of his inward ability to play tennis, was excellent. The expression in this case took the form of the rhythmic, graceful, swift, and coordinated movements of his body and its members.

Our Lord was in the form of God. The word "God" is without the definite article in the Greek text, and therefore refers to the divine essence. Thus, our Lord's outward expression of His inmost being was as to its nature the expression of the divine essence of Deity. Since that outward expression which this word "form" speaks of, comes from and is truly representative of the inward being, it follows that our Lord as to His nature is the possessor of the divine essence of Deity, and being that, it also necessarily follows that He is absolute Deity Himself, a co-participant with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit in that divine essence which constitutes God, God.

The time at which the apostle says our Lord gave expression to His essential nature, that of Deity, was previous to His coming to earth to become incarnate as the man Christ Jesus. But Paul, by the use of the Greek word translated "being," informs his Greek readers that our Lord's possession of the divine essence did not cease to be a fact when He came to earth to assume human form. The Greek word is not the simple verb of being, but a word that speaks of an antecedent condition protracted into the present. That is, our Lord gave expression to the essence of Deity which He possesses, not only before He became Man, but also after becoming man, for He was doing so at the time this Philippian epistle was being written." (vol. 2, pp. 62-63)


Also, according to Eerdmans The Expositor's Greek Testament:

"He means, of course, in the strictest sense that the pre-existing Christ was Divine. For μ. [μορφή] always signifies a form which truly and fully expresses the being which underlies it." (vol 3, p. 436)


All of that is supported by John 1:1--the Word was in an interpersonal relationship with God when the beginning began (denoting absolute, continuous existence), the only conclusion of which is that "the Word was God."
 

Justified

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And in contrast with "form of a servant" (μορφὴ δούλου), which denotes a role, not a change in essence.
The word "form" there is the same as in verse 6, so the comparison is significant.

"Did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped": This is seen as Yeshua refusing to exploit his divine privileges during his earthly ministry, not a denial of divinity. The humility is practical and relational, not ontological. And clearly, Paul is also stating here that Yeshua is not God as he never attempted to be equal (as robbery in some translations) as his own Father, who is the one God.
As we've seen above, Paul has already stated the fact of Jesus's deity, as he does elsewhere (Rom. 9:5; implied in 1 Cor. 6:8 and Col. 1:16-17). So, here Paul is saying that his equality with God, which is something he had as being God in nature, was not something to be held onto at all costs--one of the meanings of ἁρπαγμὸν:

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

1) the act of seizing, robbery
2) a thing seized or to be seized
2a) booty to deem anything a prize
2b) a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained

"Emptied himself" (ἐκένωσεν): This is Yehsua renouncing divine privileges to live as a human, not losing divine nature. This aligns with the idea that Yeshua was a man exalted by God, not a pre-existent deity.
First, who did the emptying? Second, what did he empty himself of (remember, the point is his humility)?

Tense and Grammar: The present tense of "being in the form of God" (hyparcho) is emphasized, suggesting the statement applies to Yeshua being the Messiah and after his resurrection, not before any incarnation.
No. "existing" is clearly applied to "in the form of God." There is absolutely nothing to suggest this is speaking of his earthly life and after his resurrection. It is clearly prior to his

Also note that the word "though" is added in some translations and is seen as a biased interpolation that distorts the text.
Not at all. The word is hos, and means "who," "which," "what," "that." There is no change in meaning if it's "though" or "who."

Contrast with another common view: There is no pre-existent Messiah. Paul contrasts Yeshua's present exalted status ("form of God") with his past humble state ("form of a servant"), not a change in nature.
This is to completely ignore the clear line of thought.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

There is a clear chronological progression. First, he "was in the form of God." Then he "emptied himself" and was "born in the likeness of men." To read that has saying "in the form God" is referring to his human existence and then exaltation is to completely ignore the basics of language as communication. It is to make Paul write nonsense.
 
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Justified

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Erroneous presumptions and misconceptions

Here is a list of common erroneous presumptions and inferences regarding Phil 2:5-7

Presuming that Paul is talking about a pre-incarnate Son who “was” in the “form of God.”
That's all it can mean, if language is to mean anything.

Presuming that the term “form of God” means “God” and falling to see that it makes no sense to refer God as being in the form of God. It only makes sense to refer to someone else as being in the image of God or the form of God.
It essentially means that he was God in nature, the very thing you deny.

Presuming that Yeshua emptied himself of some of his divine prerogatives or his positional glory in heaven.
It really means that he emptied himself of that particular mode of existence as God, hence why his new mode of existence was human. Of course, it does not mean that he ceased being God, because it makes no sense to say that God can cease being who he is.

Presuming that not regard it to be a plunder to be equal to God is that Yeshua had no problem being equal with God. In context, this makes no sense whatsoever since Paul’s point is to show the Philippians how to humble themselves and serve as Yeshua served his God.
You're not understanding the claim, at all, which I have given in my previous post.

Taking Paul’s words to say that in verse 6, Yeshua did not regard “clinging to” equality with God. However, that would mean the incarnate Yeshua was not equal to God, which they deny.
No, your conclusion doesn't follow.

Presuming that “taking the form of a servant” means “adding a human nature” to himself.
That is because that is precisely what it is saying:

Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

As stated above, it cannot be said that God can cease being God.

The words “becoming in the likeness of men,” or “coming to be in the likeness of men” qualify the expression “taking the form of a servant.” In context, the likeness of men is contrasted with the form of God. The Greek word here is saying that Yeshua came into his existence in the likeness of humans.
When we consider that "form of a servant" means that he was human in nature, and that that is being contrasted with "existing in the form of God," it follows that that can only mean he was God in nature.
 

JustMe

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John also said "God is light in whom there is no darkness." Jesus is the light of the world. If you know Him, you know the Father.
Yes, indeed..
(1Jn 1:5) And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you: That God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.


That the Father is the source of light and life, and Yeshua is the divine instrument through whom the Father reveals Himself to humanity....
 

JustMe

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Yes, the whole point of Phil. 2:1-11 is to show the humility of Christ as an example for us to follow. And there is no greater example of humility that can be given or even imagined than God becoming one of his creatures in order to save us from ourselves, to save us from our sin.


Yes, it most certainly does.


No, it certainly does not. It is clearly talking about his mode of existence prior to becoming human. The word used for "being" is huparchōn, and is in the present tense, meaning that it is continuous. The better translation is "existing," that is, "existing in the form of God."


It can only be referring to an eternal divine nature, as we'll see.


Please provide legitimate, scholarly sources to back up these claims.

Here is from M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament:

"Form (μορφή). We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophic sense, to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character. Thus it is distinguished from σχῆμα fashion, comprising that which appeals to the senses and which is changeable. Μορφή form is identified with the essence of a person or thing: σχῆμα fashion is an accident which may change without affecting the form.

As applied here to God, the word is intended to describe that mode in which the essential being of God expresses itself. We have no word which can convey this meaning, nor is it possible for us to formulate the reality.
...

This mode of expression, this setting of the divine essence, is not identical with the essence itself, but is identified with it, as its natural and appropriate expression, answering to it in every particular. It is the perfect expression of a perfect essence. It is not something imposed from without, but something which proceeds from the very depth of the perfect being, and into which that being perfectly unfolds, as light from fire. To say, then, that Christ was in the form of God, is to say that He existed as essentially one with God. The expression of deity through human nature (Php 2:7) thus has its background in the expression of deity as deity in the eternal ages of God's being. Whatever the mode of this expression, it marked the being of Christ in the eternity before creation. As the form of God was identified with the being of God, so Christ, being in the form of God, was identified with the being, nature, and personality of God.

This form, not being identical with the divine essence, but dependent upon it, and necessarily implying it, can be parted with or laid aside. Since Christ is one with God, and therefore pure being, absolute existence, He can exist without the form. This form of God Christ laid aside in His incarnation."


Also, as Kenneth Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testaments states:

"Thus the Greek word for "form" refers to that outward expression which a person gives of his inmost nature. This expression is not assumed from the outside, but proceeds directly from within. To illustrate: "I went to a tennis match yesterday. The winning player's form was excellent." We mean by that, that the outward expression he gave of his inward ability to play tennis, was excellent. The expression in this case took the form of the rhythmic, graceful, swift, and coordinated movements of his body and its members.

Our Lord was in the form of God. The word "God" is without the definite article in the Greek text, and therefore refers to the divine essence. Thus, our Lord's outward expression of His inmost being was as to its nature the expression of the divine essence of Deity. Since that outward expression which this word "form" speaks of, comes from and is truly representative of the inward being, it follows that our Lord as to His nature is the possessor of the divine essence of Deity, and being that, it also necessarily follows that He is absolute Deity Himself, a co-participant with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit in that divine essence which constitutes God, God.

The time at which the apostle says our Lord gave expression to His essential nature, that of Deity, was previous to His coming to earth to become incarnate as the man Christ Jesus. But Paul, by the use of the Greek word translated "being," informs his Greek readers that our Lord's possession of the divine essence did not cease to be a fact when He came to earth to assume human form. The Greek word is not the simple verb of being, but a word that speaks of an antecedent condition protracted into the present. That is, our Lord gave expression to the essence of Deity which He possesses, not only before He became Man, but also after becoming man, for He was doing so at the time this Philippian epistle was being written." (vol. 2, pp. 62-63)


Also, according to Eerdmans The Expositor's Greek Testament:

"He means, of course, in the strictest sense that the pre-existing Christ was Divine. For μ. [μορφή] always signifies a form which truly and fully expresses the being which underlies it." (vol 3, p. 436)


All of that is supported by John 1:1--the Word was in an interpersonal relationship with God when the beginning began (denoting absolute, continuous existence), the only conclusion of which is that "the Word was God."
I have to raise a very large flag here....:God becoming one of his creatures".... is not at all what God can do or does I'm afraid.

God is one eternal being, distinct from creation, and that his Yeshua the Messiah, while exalted by God, remains a created human being—born of Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit. Yeshua was thus not pre-existent as God but was appointed and empowered by God to fulfill a unique role as the Messiah and divine agent. It emphasizes that God’s nature is unchanging and that divine titles, functions, and attributes are not transferred or shared with finite beings in a way that compromises His oneness. As such, worship of Yeshua is seen as proper only because of God’s sovereign exaltation, not because Jesus is co-eternal or co-equal with the Father.

Key Points:
  • God is one: God is a single, indivisible being.
  • Jesus is human: Jesus is viewed as a man, born of Mary, and not a pre-existing divine person.
  • Exaltation, not somehow a transformation from the one God into a man: Yeshua was exalted by God after his life and resurrection, receiving divine authority and honor, but not becoming God.
  • Worship is based on divine appointment: Worship of Yeshua is justified not because he is God, but because God has commanded it and elevated him to a position of supreme authority.
This understanding avoids the theological tension of God “becoming” a creature, incompatible with the biblical witness to God’s eternal, uncreated nature.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Yes, indeed..
(1Jn 1:5) And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you: That God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.


That the Father is the source of light and life, and Yeshua is the divine instrument through whom the Father reveals Himself to humanity....
Yes, making them inseparable.
 

ProDeo

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JM, I have been rereading our conversation, this is what you said :

This also pointed to the fact that Yeshua never could possibly pre-exist (an impossible idea in itself).

My brother, that's bias.

Reasoning from a predefined stance you can make anything acceptable for yourself, you are not objective.

I am sure you know this verse :

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

And what about mother Mary?

Luk 1:27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Luk 1:29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Luk 1:31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
Luk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
Luk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
Luk 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luk 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luk 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.
Luk 1:38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

Mary was flabbergasted, the angel saw it and reassured her : For nothing will be impossible with God.

Pregnant from the Holy Spirit, quoting you, also an impossible idea in itself
?
 

JustMe

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JM, I have been rereading our conversation, this is what you said :



My brother, that's bias.

Reasoning from a predefined stance you can make anything acceptable for yourself, you are not objective.

I am sure you know this verse :

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

And what about mother Mary?

Luk 1:27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Luk 1:29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Luk 1:31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
Luk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
Luk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
Luk 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luk 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luk 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.
Luk 1:38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

Mary was flabbergasted, the angel saw it and reassured her : For nothing will be impossible with God.

Pregnant from the Holy Spirit, quoting you, also an impossible idea in itself
?

Not all is possible with God depending on the subject! This may come as a shock to you and many people. There is one inner-personal area that God cannot do or perform and it's discussed in scripture, and many breeze by it. And one of them is to become a man, to become one of his creatures or creations. That would permanently compromise who and what God is, his very identity!

God's nature and identity are unchangeable and eternal, meaning He cannot compromise His own divine essence or become a created being. He is called the Father and the creator for a reason. Scripture affirms that God does not change—James 1:17 states there is "no variableness nor shadow of turning" in Him. This immutability means our one supreme God cannot act contrary to His nature, such as lying (Hebrews 6:18) or abandoning His love and justice. And he cannot suddenly become evil...

While "all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27), this refers to His power to fulfill His eternal purposes, not to act and create that would contradict His unchanging character like somehow transforming himself into a man.
 

amigo de christo

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John says otherwise on two counts.

1. The deity of Jesus. Word was God in John 1 and became flesh and dwelt among us - Jesus.

2. The pre-existence of Jesus. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

The rest of your attempt to reduce Jesus to that of a mere man and not God only shows that Jesus always gave the Father all glory, not that He was not God. He did announce that He was God to the Pharisees when He said, "before Abraham was, I AM." The Pharisees immediately recognized what you can't. That Jesus was claiming to be God by using the name of God. "I AM." Otherwise, why did the Pharisees pick up stones to stone Him?
Even doubting thomas who had failed to beleieve others who told HIM , HE has risen ,
would later SEE THE RISEN JESUS and quickly bowed himself
with these words that followed , MY LORD and MY GOD .
And JESUS , unlike the angel that told john to get up and WORSHIP GOD ,
DID NOT CORRECT THOMAS .
Because its as you wrote , Word was God and sure was in the beginning .
In fact later in revelation it shows us and His NAME is the WORD OF G OD .
Now to the trenches one and all .
And beware the song of the well favored harlot who sings her ecumeincal anti christ love to many tribes
tongues . SHE is a HARLOT
and make no mistake about it . And a harlot sure knows how to seduce and lie . Always remember that .
She is one sneaky harlot as are her many daughters . Beware them at all costs and heed not not a word one
outta them mouths .
 
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amigo de christo

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Yes, indeed..
(1Jn 1:5) And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you: That God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.


That the Father is the source of light and life, and Yeshua is the divine instrument through whom the Father reveals Himself to humanity....
God is light indeed my friend .
And now a word
For the LAMB IS THE LIGHT THEREOF .
Mystery indeed , but let us not DENY TRUTH .
As GOD is TRUTH , HIS SPIRIT is TRUTH , HIS WORD IS TRUTH .
HE IS LIFE
I AM the way the truth and the life . notice he didnt just say I GIVE these things
BUT THAT I Am . who IS life . GOD IS .
so if even this is hard to understand , Just dont deny TRUTH . Leave what you understand not ALONE .
NEVER contradict what is written and YE shall do well . But contradict it , YOU IN DANGER .
So lets just BELEIVE what is written , whe ther understood at first or not
And understanding , at least in part , Will come .
BUT and this be a huge ol butt ,
BuT whatever ya do , dont heed men or thoughts
that try and omit scrips , that try and cut out some and paste etc
IN ORDER TO recreate a truth that might make sense to us .
FOR ALL WHO DO SO , do so unto their own destruction .
Let no man t wist in order to recreate A TRUTH in their own minds image and that of man
RATHER READ THE BIBLE and let them words of TRUTH by THE POWER of the SPIRIT
actually FORM THE TRUTH in thine mind .
 

GRACE ambassador

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You said, "God took on the form of a man, this is the clear teaching in this passage." In your dreams. Scripture never speaks of this. ... It's so important to clear this up and get all our facts straight on such a topic.
Precious friend, May God Help us Not "to dream" But, To "get All our facts straight" And
Believe All Of His
Precious Word Of Truth!:

A Vast Multitude Of Plain And Clear Scriptures For The Triune GodHead!!


Before death And Three Books Are Opened In Judgment!!!
----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord God Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:


The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.
 
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JustMe

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God is light indeed my friend .
And now a word
For the LAMB IS THE LIGHT THEREOF .
Mystery indeed , but let us not DENY TRUTH .
As GOD is TRUTH , HIS SPIRIT is TRUTH , HIS WORD IS TRUTH .
HE IS LIFE
I AM the way the truth and the life . notice he didnt just say I GIVE these things
BUT THAT I Am . who IS life . GOD IS .
so if even this is hard to understand , Just dont deny TRUTH . Leave what you understand not ALONE .
NEVER contradict what is written and YE shall do well . But contradict it , YOU IN DANGER .
So lets just BELEIVE what is written , whe ther understood at first or not
And understanding , at least in part , Will come .
BUT and this be a huge ol butt ,
BuT whatever ya do , dont heed men or thoughts
that try and omit scrips , that try and cut out some and paste etc
IN ORDER TO recreate a truth that might make sense to us .
FOR ALL WHO DO SO , do so unto their own destruction .
Let no man t wist in order to recreate A TRUTH in their own minds image and that of man
RATHER READ THE BIBLE and let them words of TRUTH by THE POWER of the SPIRIT
actually FORM THE TRUTH in thine mind .
As John Bunyan writes The Pilgrim’s Progress, "Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gates of heaven, as well as from the City of Destruction."

I would reflect on these words if I were you - and heed its warning. Less pride and more humility would serve you well.
 

JustMe

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Precious friend, May God Help us Not "to dream" But, To "get All our facts straight" And
Believe All Of His
Precious Word Of Truth!:

A Vast Multitude Of Plain And Clear Scriptures For The Triune GodHead!!


Before death And Three Books Are Opened In Judgment!!!
----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord God Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:


The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.
I'm truly glad I do not drink the Kool aide, and it judgement is surely not too far behind, as with the first parents.
 

JustMe

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Well, back to a major thrust of the OP and thread, or should I open at least dozen more threads to entertain all the other paths opened up by others? I expect no coherent Bible Study is possible as its' obvious many cannot help themselves but pile on a heavy weight of scripture for ME to respond to as they maybe curious in my answers although their main aim is to cut it all down based on their preconceived ill-formed man induced religious systems of belief. A shame.

Yeshua (Jesus) demonstrated profound humility and obedience to God throughout His earthly ministry, even after being recognized as the Messiah. His humility was evident in both His actions and His willingness to fulfill God’s plan, even at great personal cost.

  • Servant Leadership: In John 13:2–5, Yeshua washed His disciples’ feet—a task typically performed by the lowest servants—setting a powerful example of humble service. He declared, “I set the pattern for you, that, just as I did to you, you should do also” (John 13:15), emphasizing that true greatness lies in serving others.
  • Obedience to the Father’s Will: From His early life, Yeshua remained obedient to His earthly parents (Luke 2:51) and consistently affirmed His mission was to do the will of his God, not His own. As He said, “I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me” (John 5:30).
  • Submission in Gethsemane: Facing crucifixion, Yeshua prayed in agony, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will” (Matthew 26:39). This moment revealed His deep human struggle, yet His ultimate obedience to God’s plan.
  • Voluntary Sacrifice: Yeshua willingly accepted death on the cross—the most shameful and painful form of execution in the Roman world—despite being innocent. As Philippians 2:8 states, He “humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”
  • Exaltation Through Humility: His obedience culminated in resurrection and exaltation, as God “highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name” (Philippians 2:9). This shows that true greatness comes not from self-assertion, but from selfless obedience.
Yeshua’s life and death remain the ultimate model of humility and obedience, proving that true power is found in surrender to his Father, the will of his God.!
 

amigo de christo

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As John Bunyan writes The Pilgrim’s Progress, "Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gates of heaven, as well as from the City of Destruction."

I would reflect on these words if I were you - and heed its warning. Less pride and more humility would serve you well.
Oh so i have pride cause i quoated scrips . Wow .
Someone been sitting un der the , HEY if you cant expose their doctrine just accuse them CAMP .
SHOW me where it is written that JESUS IS NOT THE LIGHT OF GOD
and i will show you where it is written .
Just me , my friend , MORE BIBLE and less thought realm you surely need my friend .
And i dont say that to con dmen you BUT f or to help you .
 
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amigo de christo

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As John Bunyan writes The Pilgrim’s Progress, "Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gates of heaven, as well as from the City of Destruction."

I would reflect on these words if I were you - and heed its warning. Less pride and more humility would serve you well.
i aint the one sitting under ecumenicism and its religoin of inclusivity and of interfaith .
And i sure hope you are not either . PS if ya supporting politicans of the left , or right , OR TRUMP N vance
and that nar realm , WELL YOU ARE ALREADY sitting under it . JUST a reminder .
CAUSE there sure is a BROAD INCLUSIVE SIN ACCEPTING UNBELEIF accepting PATH TO HELL .
ITs called ecumeincal intefaith and it sure talks a lot about love , THOUGH IT KNOWS NOT GOD OR HIS LOVE .
 
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JustMe

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Oh so i have pride cause i quoated scrips . Wow .
Someone been sitting un der the , HEY if you cant expose their doctrine just accuse them CAMP .
SHOW me where it is written that JESUS IS NOT THE LIGHT OF GOD
and i will show you where it is written .
Just me , my friend , MORE BIBLE and less thought realm you surely need my friend .
And i dont say that to con dmen you BUT f or to help you .
Stop it already....I know who you are by now...
 

JustMe

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This is the real concern of all sincere and truthful people, to be aware of, in this type of psychology performed on these types of forum settings.

If and when a person has key differing views expect this psychological effect at times. This is what has happened to this thread like many others.

If one is confronted or pressured by a group to suppress or abandon their ideas, this phenomenon is closely related to groupthink and group polarization, often reinforced by pluralistic ignorance and conformity.

  • Groupthink occurs when a group prioritizes harmony and consensus over critical evaluation, leading members to suppress dissenting opinions. In such environments, individuals who challenge the group’s dominant viewpoint may face social pressure, ridicule, or exclusion. This is especially likely in cohesive groups with strong leaders or high stress, where maintaining group unity becomes more important than making sound decisions.
  • Group polarization intensifies this effect, as group discussions often push members toward more extreme positions. When like-minded individuals reinforce each other’s views, those with opposing opinions may feel isolated or attacked, leading to attempts to silence or marginalize them.
  • Pluralistic ignorance plays a key role: individuals may privately disagree but assume others support the group’s stance, leading them to remain silent. This false consensus makes dissenters appear even more isolated, encouraging the group to suppress alternative ideas.
  • Conformity drives the behavior, as humans are evolutionarily inclined to fit in for social cohesion. Fear of rejection or punishment can lead people to conform, even if they disagree, especially when authority figures or dominant voices discourage opposition.
These dynamics collectively create an environment where diverse perspectives are silenced, and dissent is met with social pressure or exclusion and with much name calling, pride and arrogance.

How did I do? Not far of right? You know who you are.....

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I consider this thread closed, at least it's my desire, as its usefulness and effectiveness has now past the point of no return.
 

amigo de christo

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Stop it already....I know who you are by now...
Well , dont just hug me to hell .
IF you know what iam , and what you beleive i am is con trary to GOD
expose it . dont jus say you know who i am by now .
Dont leave me in e rror and just hug and get along like this church age IS SO KEEN on doing .
SO if you see d eadly error and my so ul is in danger of hells great fires
SHOW SOME LOVE and correct me .
Go ahead , i am all ears and eyes . IF i am in such danger
perhaps even an anti christ as some have said , or perhaps a son of satan
Or etc , YOU NEEDS TO SHOW ME THE ERROR . go on now , DONT just hug and get along and let a soul perish .
CAUSE bleieve me , I WILL DO ALL to help anyone I SEE IN ERROR .
ITS WHY I keep telling you , DONT CONTRADICT WHAT IS WRITTEN . THE WORD WAS GOD . YOU CANNOT LIE
and say otherwise . NOW if you cant comprehend this , HEY ITS OKAY . JUST DONT LIE .
 
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