Death Penalty: All in Favor? All Opposed?

[stevesonthebay]

From a purely Scriptural perspective, “the wages sin pays” is exactly what God told Adam....

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Gen 2:16-17 ESV)

The OT does not teach a “heaven or hell” scenario, but the Jews believed in a future resurrection, which was a restoration of life, once the Kingdom of God was ruling the world...to them, death was a cessation of life, not a continuation of it.

There is also the verse about cutting off a limb that has sinned to save you from hell. So it seems the physical body is secondary to the loss of ones soul.

We are all under the condemnation of death due to inheriting Adam’s defective DNA. So, no one can avoid the sentence. Gen 3:22-24 however, informs us of what would have happened if Adam and his wife had simply obeyed God’s reasonable command....not to eat from the one tree that God had claimed as his own property.

“Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.” (ESV)

There were two trees in the garden of Eden....eating the fruit of one would cause death...but the other would result in everlasting life. Opposites....the choice made by our first parents condemned us to a temporal life, when God designed it to be everlasting....their disobedience, and the theft of God’s stated property resulted in their eviction from the paradise they called home, and led to the trouble filled life we have until this day.

I am wondering if Adam and Eve did eat of the Tree of Life that this would bypass Christ. Like some backdoor to everlasting life. Perhaps God barring Adam and Eve from the garden because it was underserved. Being taken and not respected and obeyed.

God sent his son to pay for our release from that debt......the price has been paid, but many things had to fulfill prophesy before we enjoyed the promised restoration, soon to come.

Yes I think once the fall happened there was no easy fix. The fabric of Gods creation was infected and this would take God Himself to put right through such a great act of giving His only Son. Being made flesh and coming into our temporal fallen world.

The majority of Christians on earth today will not go to heaven because only a specific number are to assist Jesus in his role as King/Priest (Rev 20:6) these “chosen ones” (saints...elect) will rule redeemed mankind on earth and restore to the human race what God first purposed for them in the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth.
That is what I look forward to....

Yes a transformation of the earth just like in individuals. A restoration of sorts of His creation.

Without some kind of rulership, anarchy would prevail and life would be even more chaotic than it is now.
God permits humans to rule themselves but they are not terribly good at it....their track record down through history is appalling......once you give humans power over other humans, corruption soon follows. That is evidence of the sin in us.....we were designed to have God’s rulership because he is incorruptible.

I think the fundemental instution of Rulership and authority over people is Gods institution when done right. Paul says to pray for rulers that they be Godly. But the institution itself is Gods institution put in place so that if followed properly will govern people to follow God.

I think Peter mentions that these institutions are so that people may be saved.

I think there are opposing principalities against Gods institutions. Humans know of good governance such as justice, fairness and equality. We know when these are breached. But primarily these institutions are meant to bring about good governance so that people can know God. So ideologies like communism or other dictatorships are breaching Gods instutions.

No one wants capital punishment, but it was part of God’s law under certain circumstances.
Execution is not murder, and the death penalty still applies in some countries, but the legal system is corrupt and expensive as we see in all nations.....another gift from the devil....(1 John 5:19) we do well to stay out of the politics....

Jesus said He never came to do away with the laws of Moses but to fullfill them. Though we can now be saved in Christ the punishment for sin is still relevant.

In some ways judement and punishment is the pre-requisite for redemption in Christ. The law reveals us as sinners falling short and deserving punishment. But Gods grace in Christ has been offered for those who take up His grace.

But at the same time the consequences for sin are still part of what makes Christs sacrifice relevant as saving us from sin and death. If there was no such punishment then there would be nothing to be saved from.

 

[Button]

It should be a decision for society to make, based on rather we can afford the expense of confining people for their whole life if they are too dangerous to release into society.

I would prefer if we had the luxury of not needing to execute criminals. But if the alternative is to release capital offences back into society they must die.

Perhaps sitting in prison will give someone a chance to repent and come to Jesus.

No,in America if an offender is found guilty of a CI, they can be sentenced to life without parole. Which means they are never released into free society. They will die in prison.

This sentence is actually less expensive than keeping an inmate on death row. Where some have lived for 20 and 30+ years.

Some,like California's infamous Night Stalker Richard Ramirez, have died of natural causes. In his case that is because there is a moratorium on execution of sentence in California.

It's less expensive to house offenders for life ,than to kill them.

 

[Wrangler]

This stresses how just and unbiased the legal system has to be....if true justice is to be served....can anyone guarantee such a legal system in a world ruled by the devil?

It's not about guaranteeing anything. We do the best we can and there is more justice now than in Jesus' day. One measure of this is wealth generation. Used to be wealth was thought in terms of resources. More people = strain on resources. However, people are the wealth. More people = more wealth. There's about 80,000x more people than 5,000 years ago but most people are wealthy in comparison to back then.

Are things perfect? No, of course not and it never will be.

 

[Wrangler]

It's less expensive to house offenders for life ,than to kill them.

You must know this is untrue. See the OP.

3. FINANCIAL-DEFEATING THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXSadly, in America the prison system has grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. America imprisons a larger % of its citizens than any country on Earth. Who does this benefit? Certainly not society.The cost of execution, the cost of a bullet, electricity, chemicals or scaffolding is far less than 50 years in prison. The American system of appeals taking decades makes a mockery of the Constitutional guarantee of a speedy trial. This corruption of the trial and appeals process is often used falsely to claim it is not cheaper to execute someone. Of course capital punishment is cheaper by over 99.9%.

 

[Button]

You must know this is untrue. See the OP.

The OP is in error.

"Death row is significantly more expensive than life without parole, primarily due to complex pre-trial procedures, longer trials, increased attorney fees, specialized jury selection, and extensive appeals. Studies consistently show capital cases cost 2.5 to 5 times more than life imprisonment.
Equal Justice USA +3

• Higher Costs: A Maryland study (2008) found death penalty cases averaged $3 million compared to $1.1 million for life sentences.
• Legal Processes: Capital cases require more attorneys, witnesses, and experts.
• Appeals Process: Mandatory, lengthy, and multiple appeals for death row inmates cost taxpayers significantly more than a single conviction and incarceration.
• Inefficiency: Most cases where the death penalty is sought do not result in a sentence of death, yet the costs for the trial have already been incurred.

Correctional Costs: Death row inmates are housed in high-security, specialized, and expensive conditions."

http://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=Why does it cost so,sentenced to death or executed.

 

[Button]

 

[Taken]

Death Penalty: All in Favor? All Opposed?

Favor.

All humans, Shall, Must, Die.
God Requires the Bodily (Blood Life) Death of All humans.

Gen. 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.


Some Shall Die…
by disease, old age, mechanical failures, unintended accidents, intended acts of war, intended targets (of man or animal), drowning, weather events, suicides, martyrdom…
And…
Consequential Punishment.

Not a secret…
Human Mortal death is inevitable.

When, IS, “typically”, the Unknown Factor.

What, is Not a secret…
Securing an assured Eternal Life “After an Accounted” Mortal bodily Death….
Is ONLY, by, through. of…
A human mans Belief in his “Creator and Maker”.

What, is Not a secret…but…
(From the Act or Involvement of Trespassing to Murder)
Written, Published, Available… are Legal Consequences for a mans “choices (FREEWILL) and behaviors (PRECEPTS)”.

God has a Bodily Death Sentence.
Man as well, has a Bodily Death Sentence.

I agree with both.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The OP is in error.

"Death row is significantly more expensive than life without parole, primarily due to complex pre-trial procedures, longer trials, increased attorney fees, specialized jury selection, and extensive appeals. Studies consistently show capital cases cost 2.5 to 5 times more than life imprisonment.
Equal Justice USA +3

• Higher Costs: A Maryland study (2008) found death penalty cases averaged $3 million compared to $1.1 million for life sentences.
• Legal Processes: Capital cases require more attorneys, witnesses, and experts.
• Appeals Process: Mandatory, lengthy, and multiple appeals for death row inmates cost taxpayers significantly more than a single conviction and incarceration.
• Inefficiency: Most cases where the death penalty is sought do not result in a sentence of death, yet the costs for the trial have already been incurred.

Correctional Costs: Death row inmates are housed in high-security, specialized, and expensive conditions."

http://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=Why does it cost so,sentenced to death or executed.

Sure. Death row inmates are highly expensive.

Considering, the Time frames…
A Death row inmate…10-20 years.
An inmate serving Life…time span per individual, could be 1-50+Years, with increased medical costs and extra assisting care.

 

[Wrangler]

The OP is in error.

No, it’s not as the OP explained. You think a bullet costs more than housing someone in security for 50 years? Bless your heart.

It’s pure propaganda by the Prison Industrial Complex to claim killing someone is more expensive than housing them for decades.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's another argument I was going to add. The mental anguish for all involved from the guards to the executioner, the lawyers, judge, jury and even the families of the accused and the victims. That's something that will traumatize people

Armour of GOD i am led to now ask you another question .
Could you take a hammer and crush the skull of a baby .
IF NOT
THEN NEVER SUPPORT abortion . I did try and tell us that i do expose ALL SIN
This is why both the left and the right have such deep hatred for me .
OH they LOVE ME when i am correcting the sin of the other side
But when i expose theirs , its teeth .
Now i dont support murder of any . not outside , nor within the womb .
AND I SUGGEST we all do the same .

 

[Wrangler]

"Death row is significantly more expensive than life without parole, primarily due to complex pre-trial procedures, longer trials, increased attorney fees, specialized jury selection, and extensive appeals.

Really, all that is a rationalization, a corruption in the cost analysis.

We are speaking different languages. I’m talking about the cost of capital punishment. You are quoting the cost of ‘death row.’ Not the same.

 

[Button]

Really, all that is a rationalization, a corruption in the cost analysis.

We are speaking different languages. I’m talking about the cost of capital punishment. You are quoting the cost of ‘death row.’ Not the same.

I apologize,I thought you were aware that death row is part of the capital punishment process.

 

[marks]

I apologize,I thought you were aware that death row is part of the capital punishment process.

So he is speaking of the act of conducting an execution, not the cost of that alternative in total. Apples and oranges.

The cost of the execution is just one small component of the legal process of capital punishment and all it entails.

Much love!

 

[Button]

No, it’s not as the OP explained. You think a bullet costs more than housing someone in security for 50 years?

You should have read the information at the link. It would help you learn about the process that is undertaken in capital punishment cases.
CP convicted inmates are housed on death row. And while there their case undergoes the extensive appeals process.

In America capital convictions do not result in immediate execution.

Bless your heart.

You must think I don't know that southern white trash slur means anything but a blessing.

Too bad the capital punishment system in America is more expensive than LwoP.
Your data is being misrepresented by you because you won't accept you're wrong.
The Capital Punishment system is just that. A system.

It’s pure propaganda by the Prison Industrial Complex to claim killing someone is more expensive than housing them for decades.

 

[Button]

So he is speaking of the act of conducting an execution, not the cost of that alternative in total. Apples and oranges.

Now he is. It's a dodge, not apples and oranges. Killing someone costs less than housing them for the rest of their life.
No kidding. The cost of the bursts of electricity to the electric chair. The cost of sodium cyanide of the gas chamber. The cost of the chemical cocktail that is pumped into the veins of someone strapped to a gurney. The cost of a bullet. A rope.
Sure,those are cheap methods of taking a life.

That's not the sole issue in the matter of the Capital Punishment,start to finish.

And it is intellectually dishonest to insist it is.
Because the idea the killing of that DR inmate is the issue as relates to cost, is ignoring the fact there is far more involved.

And it's weird for someone to insist the cost of killing the condemned is the issue.
Because it isn't. And ignoring the data so to insist it is,is dishonest.



.

The cost of the execution is just one small component of the legal process of capital punishment and all it entails.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

I apologize,I thought you were aware that death row is part of the capital punishment process.

I‘m differentiating from the cost of capital punishment from the prohibitive PROCESS we’ve chosen to AVOID capital punishment.

 

[Wrangler]

It would help you learn about the process that is undertaken in capital punishment

I am fully aware of the corrupt PROCESS in an attempt to AVOID capital punishment. I simply reject the claim that avoidance cost is the cost of executing someone.

A debate maxim is that if you accept the terms of your opponent, you’ve already lost the argument. So, I reject the implied premise of the terms.

 

[Wrangler]

The Capital Punishment system is just that. A system.

Again. Cost of executing someone. Cost of a system. Not the same.

The capital punishment system to AVOID capital punishment is corrupt. See the OP referencing the Prison Industrial Complex.

 

[Wrangler]

So he is speaking of the act of conducting an execution, not the cost of that alternative in total. Apples and oranges.

The cost of the execution is just one small component of the legal process of capital punishment and all it entails.

Exactly! This thread is about the morality of the death penalty, not embracing the existing PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX schemes to keep the expensive PROCESS going. As Christians, we should have discernment rregarding such propaganda.

If execution was morally justified, the cost of AVOIDING it should be minimized. Under Trump, we’ve seen many expedited court cases with appeals resolved within days, not years. While I don’t want this thread‘s scope to I dread to entirety of PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, it is somewhat avoidable. For instance, decades ago, I learned that most people in prison where there for non-violent drug offenses. (Don’t know if that is still true).

Again, I’m against the death penalty but I’m holding the claim of cost as false argument.

 

[marks]

Again, I’m against the death penalty but I’m holding the claim of cost as false argument.

Obviously cost of compliance does not determine the morality of something.

Much love!