Death Penalty: All in Favor? All Opposed?

[Wrangler]

No, I'm speaking pragmatically. Don't get confused about what I'm saying.

Besides, why are you so hung up on the costs? You already believe capital punishment is morally wrong, so who cares what the price tag is?

Much love!

One reason is that I care about the truth. Executing someone is 99.9% cheaper than holding them in prison for 50 years, PERIOD. Inventing this bureaucracy around it (i.e., "death row") and claiming that invention reverses the cost driver in the decision-making is falling for a lie.

Have you found that in many choices, there are PROS and CONS; that not all evidence and arguments are for one side? Still, we have to discern and don't have to allocate after the fact all facts retro-actively to one side.

 

[Armour of God]

One of the benefits of having a REAL Death penalty, whereby people are not just kept on Death Row, for 15 or 20 yrs.... is that the FEAR of being put to death for a crime, will stop a lot of murderers from committing murder. Whereas, if they know that all that will happen is that they end up in a prison, with a laptop, and 3 meals a day.......= that does not cause them to be afraid of the consequences of murdering someone.

Actually studies show that the deterrence isn't a factor. I read that 9 out top 10 states in homicides in America had the death penalty. Details on my first post of this thread, page 1

 

[Armour of God]

Executing someone is 99.9% cheaper than holding them in prison for 50 years, PERIOD

That's not what i read. Details and source on my first post of this thread, page 1

 

[Armour of God]

@Wrangler
Here is a google breakdown of why capital punishment costs so much




There is another source I used in my first post of this thread that uses info from American states.
And another source below explains it in more detail. The death penalty information center

Costs | Death Penalty Information Center

 

[Button]

Posts like this show how effective propaganda is by the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. While the death penalty is more than 99.9% cheaper than holding someone in prison for 50 years as the OP stated, you're adamant that it is not true, confusing the NATURAL with the MANMADE. Consider this bit of Scripture Numbers 15:32-36

32 One day while the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they discovered a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 The people who found him doing this took him before Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the community. 34 They held him in custody because they did not know what to do with him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must be put to death! The whole community must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the whole community took the man outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.​

I suspect "the whole community" is not the 600,000 men freed from captivity in Egypt.
Although the text is not specific, it suggests the man sentenced to death was only held in custody for a very short time, minutes, if not hours. And these ancient men did not even incur the cost of death weapons as the LORD provided NATURAL.

Odd that the all-knowing God did not realize this death penalty was more of a financial burden to the fledgling Hebrews than holding him for decades. It's odd that the Hebrews did not appeal on account of the cost isn't it? Or does @marks want to be cute again playing with the meaning of cost?

• Did they carry out this work on the Sabbath? (Where there was no out of work cost)
• Were they working on the Sabbath or did they take time out of their busy work day to do the LORD's work?
• When you multiply non-productive time, lost wages in taking "the whole community" outside the camp, there is a cost to that.
• Yet, cost was not considered as a factor in the decision-making per the text. Maybe non-financial cost was all that mattered, DO JUSTICE and obey the LORD your God?

My, how times have changed.

Well,you've got the keywords down pat.pirson industrial complex.

It never occurs to you that your OP source is the propagandist here.

 

[Button]

One reason is that I care about the truth. Executing someone is 99.9% cheaper than holding them in prison for 50 years, PERIOD.

If you cared about the truth you wouldn't push those lies.

Your sources are against the death penalty. They twist truth or ignore it all together.

I agree with the observation of others. When you're against the DP it doesn't make sense you'd fixate on the cost.
Especially when you're pushing falsehood.
Something's wrong here. Your agenda is immoral and illogical.


Yes,more data from the "industrial complex."
Hopefully others will bother to at least scroll to the last pages and read the conclusion after all evidence is considered.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Torin_Mcfarland2/publication/324804378_The_Death_Penalty_vs_Life_Incarceration_A_Financial_Analysis/links/5ae34579458515c60f68b6ad/The-Death-Penalty-vs-Life-Incarceration-A-Financial-Analysis.pdf?__cf_chl_tk=yT.w0tWq9r69DHt8_JJn4g5dNqUP7ZgaET0SOV2HW6Y-1773777359-1.0.1.1-LlqGfY7g_9II.BIBTkwTqA6kVHJ0RfQs6XmusUuMeF8

Inventing this bureaucracy around it (i.e., "death row") and claiming that invention reverses the cost driver in the decision-making is falling for a lie.

Have you found that in many choices, there are PROS and CONS; that not all evidence and arguments are for one side? Still, we have to discern and don't have to allocate after the fact all facts retro-actively to one side.

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler
Here is a google breakdown of why capital punishment costs so much

We already talked about this over and over again. Linking the death penalty cost to a broken system of "death row" appeals to AVOID the death penalty is speaking different languages. There is no point making yet another Appeal to Authority. Google this time.

I hope you commented on my post referencing Numbers.

 

[Armour of God]

We already talked about this over and over again.

I'll just stay out it

 

[Button]

I read the other day that 170,000 people die from all causes everyday worldwide.

That's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What about numbers if bodies tallied at the hand of those who commit murder? And are then tried under the capital punishment statute?

I won't seek out those numbers. However,there are more than 1 life lost to such evil.

And by the way,you repeatedly refer to the numbers in your OP in claiming CP is less costly than LwoP. However,there are no sources providing those numbers in your OP.

Just your opinion.

Furthermore, America is a Constitutional Democratic Republic.
While Christians have their opinion on the matter, that jour form of government is not a Theocracy means scripture is not relevant to the CP process.

If we were a Theocracy our culture and system of justice would be like that of Iran.
Only we would cite Bible God's system of justice and punishment rather than the Quran's.

 

[Wrangler]

And by the way,you repeatedly refer to the numbers in your OP in claiming CP is less costly than LwoP. However,there are no sources providing those numbers in your OP.

Just your opinion.

Did you read my post quoting Numbers?

 

[Button]

Did you read my post quoting Numbers?

I saw the OP linked to Englands Oxford University that operates under a Liberal philosophy . Though one cannot access the whole of the article without permission.

Did you read the data links I provided?

 

[Wrangler]

Did you read the data links I provided?

No. You suppose I should believe propaganda but not my lying eyes?

 

[Wrangler]

Posts like this show how effective propaganda is by the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. While the death penalty is more than 99.9% cheaper than holding someone in prison for 50 years as the OP stated, you're adamant that it is not true, confusing the NATURAL with the MANMADE. Consider this bit of Scripture Numbers 15:32-36

32 One day while the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they discovered a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 The people who found him doing this took him before Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the community. 34 They held him in custody because they did not know what to do with him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must be put to death! The whole community must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the whole community took the man outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.​

I suspect "the whole community" is not the 600,000 men freed from captivity in Egypt.
Although the text is not specific, it suggests the man sentenced to death was only held in custody for a very short time, minutes, if not hours. And these ancient men did not even incur the cost of death weapons as the LORD provided NATURAL.

Odd that the all-knowing God did not realize this death penalty was more of a financial burden to the fledgling Hebrews than holding him for decades. It's odd that the Hebrews did not appeal on account of the cost isn't it? Or does @marks want to be cute again playing with the meaning of cost?

• Did they carry out this work on the Sabbath? (Where there was no out of work cost)
• Were they working on the Sabbath or did they take time out of their busy work day to do the LORD's work?
• When you multiply non-productive time, lost wages in taking "the whole community" outside the camp, there is a cost to that.
• Yet, cost was not considered as a factor in the decision-making per the text. Maybe non-financial cost was all that mattered, DO JUSTICE and obey the LORD your God?

My, how times have changed.

 

[Button]

No. You suppose I should believe propaganda but not my lying eyes?

You've done both with your OP.

You post an incomplete article only full members can read,produced by an English Liberal University.

You've got the Liberal new speak down pat. Which goes to show,you not only don't know anything about the Capital Punishment system, but you are proud to boast you refuse to change that fact.

Instead,you think Lib-Speak makes up for facts. Because in your world, parroting,"industrial complex", is enough to know you don't need to know anything else.

And this is the truth. Anyone who says those in the field of criminal justice, and the Capital Punishment system, lie to stay employed and find the system, are even more ignorant than they are proud to appear.

When you're supposedly against CP, you're fixation on numbers is illogical. Especially when you are opposed to actual facts.


Sure,you'll say whatever you like. No one has said you cannot do so. However, you're deeply mistaken to think lies are able to be spoken and go unchallenged.

 

[Wrangler]

you're deeply mistaken to think lies are able to be spoken and go unchallenged.

Projection. Cost of a bullet. Cost of 50 years of incarceration. Not even close. This is true no matter how many links you paste.

 

[Wrangler]

You post an incomplete article only full members can read,produced by an English Liberal University.

Yup. You mentioned this several times AS IF it‘s a fault of mine, AS IF I owe you free access to academic studies. Odd sense of entitlement.

Feel free to educate yourself without being spoon fed. Do your own research of the cost of a bullet compared to the cost of 50 years of incarceration. Do the math. I did. See OP.

 

[Gottservant]

What a horrific godless ideology.

The same one the RCC used during the inquisitions.

I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you the Law. If you want to contradict the Law, you need to address the connection with Wisdom - in this case. Saying "I don't like it" means nothing to a Judge.

 

[Button]

I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you the Law. If you want to contradict the Law, you need to address the connection with Wisdom - in this case. Saying "I don't like it" means nothing to a Judge.

No,you're giving your opinion.

America is not a Theocracy. Capital punishment and issuance of the Death Penalty do not exist in the law so to save the soul.

 

[Armour of God]

@Wrangler @Button

I see a difference in what you guys are arguing.

Wrangler is only comparing the cost of a bullet to the cost of life in prison.

Button is comparing the overall cost of the capital punishment procedure vs the overall all cost of the life in prison procedure

I hope that helps you guys reach an agreement

God bless

 

[Wrangler]

Wrangler is only comparing the cost of a bullet

aka, the cost of execution. Button has fallen for a semantic argument.

Button is comparing the overall cost of the capital punishment procedure vs the overall all cost of the life in prison procedure

I hope that helps you guys reach an agreement

Thank you for your assistance. Did you read Numbers 15:32-36
32 One day while the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they discovered a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 The people who found him doing this took him before Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the community. 34 They held him in custody because they did not know what to do with him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must be put to death! The whole community must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the whole community took the man outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Cost was not a factor in carrying out the death penalty. Although the time from sentence to execution is not made explicit, the text suggested his time in custody was only hours, it not minutes.

I was also thinking about adopting the "capital punishment procedure" that takes 10-20 years for abortion. I believe the feminists would see right through that subterfuge.