The Current War against Iran and Support for Israel is based on Catholic Counter Reformation Theology.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Judas was not saved. Peter repented and was restored for his denial of Jesus, and he is remembered as the rock, not primarily as the denier of Christ. But Judas never turned from his sin and bears the shame of his deed forever. Now, Judas is remorseful after the fact, changing his mind about the wisdom of his deed after seeing Jesus condemned. But, unlike Peter, Judas does not feel the “godly grief” of repentance, and so is not repentant... he does not really try to stop what he has started and will not testify of Christ’s innocence before Pilate. Were Judas repentant, justice and righteousness would have moved him to intervene on Jesus’ behalf. Godly sorrow leads people to run to God, but Judas’ despair makes him run into the arms of death. He was one of those who John talks about in 1 John 2:19... "went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

So, it looks like you have changed your mind about this? You argued with me and others back and forth on multiple occasions in the past insisting that Judas was saved.

Here is a sampling of things you have said about this in the past:

I don't believe there is anything in Scripture that enables us to say Judas was not saved.

That was from this post you made: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/can-a-tare-become-saved.69472/page-3#post-2051781

There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that he was not saved.

From this post: https://www.christianityboard.com/t...ys-mans-false-amill-theory.67806/post-2029706

If you disagree, then I understand, but there is nothing in Scripture, not even that Jesus said he was a devil, that suggests he was not saved.

That was from here: https://www.christianityboard.com/t...prove-you-are-saved.71153/page-4#post-2108574

So, was Judas a vessel created for noble use, and therefore one of God's elect, those called by God and thus receiving of God's mercy and compassion, as Paul puts it in Romans 9? I say yes. Judas, along with all the other disciples, was called by Jesus, and he was present when Jesus said to them all, in John 15:16, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

From here: https://www.christianityboard.com/t...ht-of-revelation-21-2-9-10.73285/post-2162204

 

[covenantee]

Please. You and your DNA.

Please provide proof of this ignorance.

It's you that thinks God needs DNA to know what a Jew is.

The Jews are the Chosen people. FACT.

In this post.

Remember?

Please. You and your Jews.

What characteristics determine whether or not a person is a Jew?

 

[The Light]

In this post.

Remember?

Please. You and your Jews.

What characteristics determine whether or not a person is a Jew?

Want to know why you are poor? You're welcome.

Genesis 12
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[covenantee]

Want to know why you are poor? You're welcome.

Genesis 12
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Unsurprisingly, you're incapable of answering the question.

Want to know why you're bewildered?

Because Genesis 12:3 is a promise to Abraham and to Christ. Galatians 3:16

And to those who are Christ's. Galatians 3:29

His Chosen Seed.

No others.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Want to know why you are poor? You're welcome.

Genesis 12
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

What do you think that passage is saying? Do you agree with Paul's understanding that it is referring to God blessing Abraham and those who have faith like Abraham?

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[Brakelite]

Hi Ronald, how can the A.C. possibly come from Islam, or Catholicism for that matter? Can you see Israel accepting a Catholic or a Muslim as their long awaited Messiah? I believe the A.C. will come out of Israel.
Just saying!

Your conclusions would be justifiable if the presumptions of futurism become reality. You are judging prophecy as false based on your sensory perception. Let the prophecy speak for itself and simply believe. And the prophecies do not speak of a Jewish individual false Messiah. Remember, the powers that come into play will do so through deception. And the powers, all of them, are global spiritual powers, not local literal. Spiritual Israel... Christianity.
Spiritual Babylon... counterfeit Christianity.
False Prophet... apostate Christianity... Antichrist. All global. Even if a temple is built, and sacrifices are resumed, it will still be deception.
Nothing, I repeat nothing in these last days will appear as they seem. Your first mistake is in thinking the antichrist is an individual. That's impossible considering the little horn of Daniel 7 and the beast of Revelation 13, to be consistent with prophetic symbolism, must be a political/ religious government or institution. Just the duration alone according to the time frames must be institutions. The Antichrist will not come out of Catholicism. The Antichrist is Catholicism. I have written elsewhere extensively on the details that have brought prophecy to light. Preterists have no idea what tomorrow will bring no than do futurists.
There was ever only one way to interpret and understand prophecy. Daniel 2 statue and the interpretation given to Nebuchadnezzar via the Holy Spirit and God's prophet, was the first of a series of revelations concerning Christ, His people, and how He was to deal with their enemies. The visions and dreams of Daniel cover the entire time period from Daniel's day to the second coming. All the prophecies of Daniel are interconnected, cover periods pertaining to the same time periods, and the latter ones expansions of the former. Daniel 2 was merely a skeleton or framework for the ones following. If an interpretation of Daniel 11 contradicts Daniel 2, them your view of Daniel 11 is wrong.

Halt! Who Goes There? Friend or Foe?

God’s love: infinite, abundant,unreserved,unconditional. God so loves the world, that there is not one person, living or dead, that Jesus did not die for. The apostle Paul says that if God wa…

brakelite.wordpress.com

 

[PinSeeker]

So, it looks like you have changed your mind about this?

Yes. Folks do that from time to time, you know. <smile> Interesting to know that you keep a running record of everything I've said. I mean that's good; maybe some of it will... you know... sink in... <chuckles> But it's kinda creepy at the same time, like a "living-rent-free-inside-your-head" kind of thing, which... yeah, eww... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The saved remnant...

Which will be an inumerable multitude, from every tongue, tribe, and nation...

...are promised a certain land.

Yes, the whole earth. Jesus says so in Matthew 5:5... "the meek shall inherit the earth."

Believers in general are promised a heavenly city.

No, as I said, we are that city, the city of God.

I do not see How some few believers living on earth after Jesus returns and being restored as He promises is a problem for some people.

Well... me either. <smile>

After all Jesus will be ruling the nations on earth, and believers will be helping...

But, innumerable multitude that they are ~ like the stars of heaven, like the grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis) ~ relegated to only a tiny strip of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea?

So how is it a bad thing to have some 'boots on the ground' of believers in the promised land?

The real promised land, dad, is the whole earth. We will inherit the earth. The promised land of old, dad, to Abraham, which Moses saw but was not allowed to enter, was a foreshadowing of the true promised land, which is the whole earth.

Or how is is a bad thing if we live in new Jerusalem in the millennium, and commute to earth to help rule?

Again, no offense, but your understanding of this is far, far too small.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[dad]

Which will be an inumerable multitude, from every tongue, tribe, and nation...

No. The remnant is not every nation etc. It is survivors that are Jewish after most Jews are killed.

Yes, the whole earth. Jesus says so in Matthew 5:5... "the meek shall inherit the earth."

Yes, we shall. The remnant and us. They happen to inherit a piece of land in the mideast. That is what God promises. Not giving it to the united nations, sorry

No, as I said, we are that city, the city of God.

I am not transparent gold steets, a river, walls that are some 235 feet high and over 6000 miles long. I am not 1500 miles high and wide, nno matter how many Twinkies I might eat. etc

Well... me either. <smile>


But, innumerable multitude that they are ~ like the stars of heaven, like the grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis) ~ relegated to only a tiny strip of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea?

It won't be a prison camp. They also will be, I assume co citizens in New Jerusalem. They also will help rule the world with Jesus etc.

The real promised land, dad, is the whole earth.

No. That is another promise, both are true. Part of the meek will be the remnant and their little 'Beverly hills' will be the actual promised land.

Again, no offense, but your understanding of this is far, far too small.

Grace and peace to you.

Sorry you thought your understanding was big. It is just another small attempt to make God look like a promise breaker and inept for promising the obvious parcel of land to an obvious people in some frenzy of dazed and confused silly wrong specific promises

 

[Davy]

You guys are making me chuckle at what you're saying.

What does God's Word say how things happen leading up to Christ's return?

Jesus said as long as we hear of wars, and rumors of wars, to not be troubled, why?

It is because He then said, "But the end is not yet."

That means the "end", i.e., the "great tribulation", will be a time opposite of wars and rumors of war. It will be a time of world peace, and this idea was written of about the coming false-Messiah for the end in Daniel 8, and Apostle Paul also remarked in 1 Thess.5 that when the deceived begin to say, "Peace and safety", then the "sudden destruction" on the last day, the "day of the Lord", which is the day of the cup of God's wrath, shall come upon them. The battle of Armageddon is the final battle of this world that Lord Jesus and His army from Heaven fight on the last day of this present world.

The Pre-trib Rapture school has all that backwards from what God's written Word says. Those are the ones that are in confusion. They teach their congregations that the coming "great tribulation" is going to be all out WWIII, kingdom against kingdom, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, etc. Jesus described those events as the "beginning of sorrows" (or symbolic birth pangs). The later actual time of the tribulation will be when all... wars have stopped, and there is peace (though a fake peace). Daniel 8 even says the false Messiah that comes to Jerusalem proclaiming to be God will also be a king, and that craft will prosper by his hand.

Ever heard the cliche 'calm before the storm'? With the coming tribulation, it's going to be opposite, the storm happens first, and then the calm of peace (fake peace) with the false Messiah appearing playing Christ trying to get you to worship him thinking he will be Christ.

 

[Davy]

Brakelite is deceived. Notice here what he isn't telling you about in Daniel 8 which is about the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in His Olivet Discourse for the end of this world...

Dan 8:23-26
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
KJV

That is the same one spoken of that will cause the daily sacrifice to cease in Jerusalem, and will instead place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in the future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Lord Jesus warned us about that event linked to the time of the "great tribulation" per His Olivet discourse.

Furthermore, the "abomination of desolation" prophecy REQUIRES a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem for it to be fulfilled, as that is given within that Daniel prophecy, and Lord Jesus quoted about that from the Book of Daniel about the end also.

Thus Braklite got his false information from you know who.

 

[PinSeeker]

No.

Yes. <smile>

The remnant is not every nation etc.

Well, I agree... not "every nation," but people of ~ or hailing from ~ every tongue, tribe, and nation (people group).

It is survivors that are Jewish...

Well, "survivors" in the sense of Joel 2:32...

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls."

So, certain "survivors," not all, who call upon the name of the Lord, and that depends on whether God calls them or not, which He does according to His will. So, yes, these are Jews, but true Jews of God ~ all those circumcised by the Spirit and whose praise is from God (Romans 2:28-29), which is also to say all those called by God, born again of the Spirit, and thus in Christ... Jew and Gentile alike. These are His elect, all the children of the promise through Isaac, the fullness of the Gentile elect plus the Jewish elect, so all of God's Israel (Romans 9-11).

after most Jews are killed.

Ugh. <smile>

That is another promise, both are true.

Both are true, yes, but the former was fulfilled long, long ago, dad. In Moses's day. That was the immediate fulfillment, but the ultimate fulfillment is still yet to come, and will be... our inheriting the earth. Co-heirs with Christ Himself.

Part of the meek will be the remnant and their little 'Beverly hills' will be the actual promised land.

LOL! I mean yeah, you're certainly not alone in thinking that, but that doesn't make you right... <chuckles>

Sorry you thought your understanding was big.

<chuckles> The... hard-headedness... is strong with this one... <Darth Vader breathing>

It is just another small attempt to make God look like a promise breaker...

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's in the same vein, really, as all of Jesus's "but I tell you" statements regarding the law in the Sermon on the Mount. In the same way, the promise is far more far-reaching... and great... than previously realized. But layered in that way, from lesser to greater... the lesser foreshadowing the greater.

and inept for promising the obvious parcel of land to an obvious people in some frenzy of dazed and confused silly wrong specific promises

<eye roll>

Grace and peace to you, dad.

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus said as long as we hear of wars, and rumors of wars, to not be troubled, why? It is because He then said, "But the end is not yet."

Right. And if you don't think that's happening right now, well, somehow you must not have heard about what's happening in the Ukraine and Iran right now, for starters... LOL!

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[dad]

Yes. <smile>


Well, I agree... not "every nation," but people of ~ or hailing from ~ every tongue, tribe, and nation (people group).


Well, "survivors" in the sense of Joel 2:32...

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls."

Multitudes are saved in that period, including some Jews in the very end. The context of the verse you quote, however is Zion and Jerusalem. That is probably talking about the remnant. The Jewish survivors (who then get saved)

So, certain "survivors," not all, who call upon the name of the Lord, and that depends on whether God calls them or not, which He does according to His will. So, yes, these are Jews, but true Jews of God ~ all those circumcised by the Spirit and whose praise is from God (Romans 2:28-29), which is also to say all those called by God, born again of the Spirit, and thus in Christ... Jew and Gentile alike. These are His elect, all the children of the promise through Isaac, the fullness of the Gentile elect plus the Jewish elect, so all of God's Israel (Romans 9-11).


Ugh. <smile>


Both are true, yes, but the former was fulfilled long, long ago, dad. In Moses's day. That was the immediate fulfillment, but the ultimate fulfillment is still yet to come, and will be... our inheriting the earth. Co-heirs with Christ Himself.


LOL! I mean yeah, you're certainly not alone in thinking that, but that doesn't make you right... <chuckles>


<chuckles> The... hard-headedness... is strong with this one... <Darth Vader breathing>


Nothing could be further from the truth. It's in the same vein, really, as all of Jesus's "but I tell you" statements regarding the law in the Sermon on the Mount. In the same way, the promise is far more far-reaching... and great... than previously realized. But layered in that way, from lesser to greater... the lesser foreshadowing the greater.


<eye roll>

Grace and peace to you, dad.

So basically we agree on some things and not on others. I guess we all will see one day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes. Folks do that from time to time, you know. <smile>

Yes, I am aware of that. I was Premil once and I obviously changed my mind about that. I just wanted to confirm that you changed your mind rather than my having misunderstood what you had said before because you seemed so insistent that Judas was saved. Maybe some day you'll come to realize that Calvinism is a false doctrinal system as well.

Interesting to know that you keep a running record of everything I've said.

LOL. Don't flatter yourself. I just did a quick search to find those posts using your username and the keyword "Judas". I had not even seen a few of those posts before because they weren't directed to me.

I mean that's good; maybe some of it will... you know... sink in...

You mean like all the times you insisted that Judas was saved? <wink>

<chuckles> But it's kinda creepy at the same time, like a "living-rent-free-inside-your-head" kind of thing, which... yeah, eww... <smile>

Yes, that would be creepy if I actually did keep a running record of everything you've said, but I most certainly do not. It's hilarious to me that you actually think that.

 

[PinSeeker]

I just wanted to confirm that you changed your mind rather than my having misunderstood what you had said before because you seemed so insistent that Judas was saved.

I’d be a little interested to hear your reasoning why you think Judas is not saved. I could tell you why I changed my mind on it, and I will if you like, but yeah, why do you think that?

Maybe some day you'll come to realize that Calvinism is a false doctrinal system as well.

lol! Maybe someday you’ll come to realize you think far more along the same lines as Calvin did. That was always one of the main issues, is you have Calvin all wrong, attributing things to him (like him denying free will) ~ many things ~ that are quite ridiculous. If you actually knew what Calvin said, rather than holding on to your false perceptions of what he said (which you’re certainly not alone in), you might find yourself changing your tune on a lot of things. But you know, yeah, “still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest…”

I just did a quick search to find those posts using your username and the keyword "Judas".

Right, the fact that you did any kind of search at all is the point.

I had not even seen a few of those posts beforYes, that would be creepy if I actually did keep a running record of everything you've said, but I most certainly do not.

I’m obviously in your head. I mean, I haven't made any effort to be, and don't care, but yeah, whatever. It is what it is, but who cares, really. It’s not a big deal.

It's hilarious to me that you actually think that.

Yeah, hilarious. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The context of the verse you quote, however is Zion and Jerusalem. That is probably talking about the remnant. The Jewish survivors (who then get saved)

Te remnant that God is preserving for Himself is all His elect, dad. All who are called by God, Jew and Gentile alike, folks from every tongue, tribe and nation. They are true Jews of God, His Israel. Regardless of ethnicity. children of the promise through Isaac. In Christ.

So basically we agree on some things and not on others.

I guess…

I guess we all will see one day.

That we will.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[dad]

Te remnant that God is preserving for Himself is all His elect, dad.

Remnant of...what? The surviving Jews who get saved in the end, and then get restored by Jesus to the promised land are a remnant of Israel, Pinseeker.

All who are called by God, Jew and Gentile alike,

There are people of all nations called. There will also be saved Jews called after they get saved. Called to the promised land according to Scripture

folks from every tongue, tribe and nation. They are true Jews of God, His Israel.

Chapter and verse? yes people are saved from every nation. No, they all will not be brought to the promised land. We will be called up to heaven.

 

[PinSeeker]

Remnant of...what? The surviving Jews who get saved in the end, and then get restored by Jesus to the promised land are a remnant of Israel, Pinseeker.

All of us in Christ ~ regardless of ethnicity ~ are the surviving Jews of God ~ because we have been called by God ~ who get saved in the end, dad.

There are people of all nations called.

Right. Of what nation in matters not.

There will also be saved Jews...

There is no ethnic distinction.

... called after they get saved.

Goodness gracious. Those who are called by God are saved, dad. We are saved because we have been called by God. To say "called after one gets saved" is to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Called to the promised land...

This is not their calling, it is their inheritance. And... the meek shall inherit the earth.

...they all will not be brought to the promised land.

Well, not all will be saved, right... Not all has God foreknown (foreloved, before the foundation of the world, before any have done anything good or bad, like Esau), so not all have been predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so not all will be called, justified, and will be in the end finally glorified. Not all are or will be in Christ.

We will be called up to heaven.

Goodness gracious. <smile> No, we are called to be God's own. All of us in Christ now, and those who will be, who haven't yet been called but will be, are the vessels God has made for honorable use and to whom God is making known the riches of His glory. We together are these vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles.

And so... now, Jesus our peace, Who has made us (Jew and Gentile) both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility, creating in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and thereby reconciling us both to God in one body through the cross. Through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Grace and peace to you, dad.

 

[dad]

All of us in Christ ~ regardless of ethnicity ~ are the surviving Jews of God ~ because we have been called by God ~ who get saved in the end, dad.

The end the bible talks about, actually is around the time He returns. In that time of Jacob's trouble, the Great Tribulation. That time unlike any other time in history past present or future. That time. Not some general vague 'whoever gets saved anytime' are 'surviving Jews'!

Right. Of what nation in matters not.

It matters for the specific promise of God restoring them in a specific time to a specific place.

There is no ethnic distinction.

The remnant of Israel that gets saved do not get saved because of ethnicity. Have you not made that distinction yet?

Goodness gracious. Those who are called by God are saved, dad.

Yes...and? What does getting saved in general have to do with the topic of God only restoring Israel after they also get saved?

We are saved because we have been called by God. To say "called after one gets saved" is to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

The remnant will be saved, and subsequently restored to the promised land. To claim they are already restored by God to that land is putting the cart before the horse. They are not 'called' to salvation after they get saved, they are carried back to the land by God after they get saved.

This is not their calling, it is their inheritance. And... the meek shall inherit the earth.

The promise of God to do what He says He will do for the saved of Israel in the very end is not their 'calling'

Well, not all will be saved, right... Not all has God foreknown (foreloved, before the foundation of the world, before any have done anything good or bad, like Esau), so not all have been predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so not all will be called, justified, and will be in the end finally glorified. Not all are or will be in Christ.

No one is pre destined for salvation, His plan of salvation was predestined. Once we ourselves decide, then He starts to conform/chasten/correct us. Doing good is not what saves us and doing bad is not what damns us. Deciding to accept or reject Jesus is. It is pre decided that we can, if we choose to come to Him, then be conformed to be like Him. It was not decided who would go to hell and heaven.

Goodness gracious. <smile> No, we are called to be God's own. All of us in Christ now, and those who will be, who haven't yet been called but will be, are the vessels God has made for honorable use and to whom God is making known the riches of His glory.

And some of those vessels will be the rag tag survivors of Israel in the end.

We together are these vessels of mercy,

And some of us vessels (saved Israel) will be restored to the promised land. Whether we head for New Jerusalem, (a real city) or are one of those saved remnant restored to the land of God's promise on earth, it is all mercy

which He has prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles.

Yes He calls us all. Many are called, and some choose Him. (therefore they become part of the chosen)

And so... now, Jesus our peace, Who has made us (Jew and Gentile) both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility,

Relax, we will not be hostile to the saved remnant or anyone else.

creating in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and thereby reconciling us both to God in one body through the cross. Through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Yes, Jew or Greek or Russian, we saved are all one. Having God reward a few of us with a promised patch of real estate on earth does not mean we are not one or not at peace etc.