TODAY IS NOT GOD'S GATHERING OF ISRAEL

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
It doesn't make any sense for you to say so much, for those people.
It's just that they never realized a problem.Why can't they even build a building after so many years? They never think.Humans always need to make mistakes to understand something.
So let's not worry about it.Let it be.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
15,973
3,379
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It doesn't make any sense for you to say so much, for those people.
It's just that they never realized a problem.Why can't they even build a building after so many years? They never think.Humans always need to make mistakes to understand something.
So let's not worry about it.Let it be.

Who are you talking to?
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
?What you said didn't change anything, and it didn't mean anything to those people.You might as well not tell them to build that thing.
When their false beliefs collapseWait for what they expect in their heartsDoesn't exist.11 million times more than you said.It all works.
 
Last edited:

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,679
311
83
70
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I don't, for the symbolic Babylon Harlot woman of Revelation 17 is specifically... pointing to Jerusalem at the end of this world as the "great city". Revelation 11:8 reveals where the "great city" is. It's where Lord Jesus was crucified.

Ezekiel 16 is a major revelation of how God also called JERUSALEM a harlot when His people fell into idol worship. Jerusalem's origin before David conquered it was a city of the pagan Jebusites. It's history began as an idol worshiping city.
There is more than one great city. The great city "where the Lord was crucified" is definitely not the same great city "which reigneth over the kings of the earth". Jerusalem has "never" even come close to that. Many times, nations are known by the cities within them. Babylon wasn't a nation, it was a city of the Chaldeans, Rome is the major city of Italy, but Italy is never mentioned in scripture. The Babylon of Rev. 17-18 will be a nation w/ a city that is known for being an economic center for the world.
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
There is more than one great city. The great city "where the Lord was crucified" is definitely not the same great city "which reigneth over the kings of the earth". Jerusalem has "never" even come close to that. Many times, nations are known by the cities within them. Babylon wasn't a nation, it was a city of the Chaldeans, Rome is the major city of Italy, but Italy is never mentioned in scripture. The Babylon of Rev. 17-18 will be a nation w/ a city that is known for being an economic center for the world.
Did Babylon rule Jerusalem in biblical history?So this may represent many meanings.
For your point of view,Economically, it can only be Jewish capital.
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,679
311
83
70
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Did Babylon rule Jerusalem in biblical history?So this may represent many meanings.
For your point of view,Economically, it can only be Jewish capital.
This a prophecy about what will come, not what's already been. There is really only one nation that fits the description and it's an econmical reign and it has nothing to do w/ Israel or Jerusalem. Even the a/c & beast hate her.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
15,973
3,379
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
There is more than one great city. The great city "where the Lord was crucified" is definitely not the same great city "which reigneth over the kings of the earth". Jerusalem has "never" even come close to that. Many times, nations are known by the cities within them. Babylon wasn't a nation, it was a city of the Chaldeans, Rome is the major city of Italy, but Italy is never mentioned in scripture. The Babylon of Rev. 17-18 will be a nation w/ a city that is known for being an economic center for the world.

That time when Jerusalem will reign over the kings of the earth is not yet. It is to happen when Satan takes power there as the Antichrist over His beast kingdom of ten kings, seven mountains, and ten crowns. It will be the time of the "great tribulation" at the end.

Jerusalem is compared to the 'city' of Babylon in Revelation because when Satan takes control over all nations from Jerusalem, it will have become LIKE the old pagan city of Babylon. And God called Jerusalem a 'harlot' back in history when the Jews fell into pagan idol worship, per Ezekiel 16.

Ezek 16:15-25
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of My gold and of My silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set Mine oil and Mine incense before them.

19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.

20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto Me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,

21 That thou hast slain My children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.

23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)

24 That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.

25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
KJV
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,853
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
There is more than one great city. The great city "where the Lord was crucified" is definitely not the same great city "which reigneth over the kings of the earth".
Yes, they are the same great city, but it is not Jerusalem. Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem.

John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

Hebrews 3:12 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,679
311
83
70
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
That time when Jerusalem will reign over the kings of the earth is not yet. It is to happen when Satan takes power there as the Antichrist over His beast kingdom of ten kings, seven mountains, and ten crowns. It will be the time of the "great tribulation" at the end.

Jerusalem is compared to the 'city' of Babylon in Revelation because when Satan takes control over all nations from Jerusalem, it will have become LIKE the old pagan city of Babylon. And God called Jerusalem a 'harlot' back in history when the Jews fell into pagan idol worship, per Ezekiel 16.

Ezek 16:15-25
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of My gold and of My silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set Mine oil and Mine incense before them.

19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.

20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto Me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,

21 That thou hast slain My children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.

23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)

24 That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.

25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
KJV
When you read this, it is all in the past tense, thus not a prophecy about Israel. The word "them" used in a few of the verses are speaking about the false Gods and idols that Israel played the harlot to. It's leading up to the "why" for the judgment of the Babylon captivity. The rest of Ez. 16 sort of explains that.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
15,973
3,379
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
When you read this, it is all in the past tense, thus not a prophecy about Israel. The word "them" used in a few of the verses are speaking about the false Gods and idols that Israel played the harlot to. It's leading up to the "why" for the judgment of the Babylon captivity. The rest of Ez. 16 sort of explains that.

Of course those things God rebuked His people in Jerusalem for there in Ezekiel 16 was past history. Do you think just because those things happened in the past that means they cannot happen at the END of this world? You're fooling yourself if you think that.

The "great city" in the last verse of Revelation 17 is Jerusalem. Per Revelation 11:8, where Jesus was crucified is called the "great city". In Revelation 21, the new Jerusalem is called the "great city". I think Lord Jesus Christ made it very plain that He was pointing to Jerusalem as the symbolic Babylon Harlot of Revelation 17, which we are told in that Chapter is a "great city."
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
15,973
3,379
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
When you read this, it is all in the past tense, thus not a prophecy about Israel. The word "them" used in a few of the verses are speaking about the false Gods and idols that Israel played the harlot to. It's leading up to the "why" for the judgment of the Babylon captivity. The rest of Ez. 16 sort of explains that.

Also, Hippolytus, an early Church father in Rome, actually kept closely to the Bible Scriptures about the coming Antichrist, and pointed to a false-Messiah coming that will mimic Lord Jesus in Jerusalem at the end. He believed that Antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan though, when based on what he said below has to be about the tribe of Judah, since Jesus came from the tribe of Judah.
From "On Christ and Antichrist" by Hippolytus:
Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist also is a lion; Christ is a king, John 18:37 so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; John 1:29 so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, John 2:19 and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,679
311
83
70
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Of course those things God rebuked His people in Jerusalem for there in Ezekiel 16 was past history. Do you think just because those things happened in the past that means they cannot happen at the END of this world? You're fooling yourself if you think that.

The "great city" in the last verse of Revelation 17 is Jerusalem. Per Revelation 11:8, where Jesus was crucified is called the "great city". In Revelation 21, the new Jerusalem is called the "great city". I think Lord Jesus Christ made it very plain that He was pointing to Jerusalem as the symbolic Babylon Harlot of Revelation 17, which we are told in that Chapter is a "great city."
Sorry, there are literally hundreds of great cities in the world today. What sets them apart is the context of how they are described or singled out. Rev. 11:8 gives it away by "where he was crucified". In Rev. 21 we are told the name of it right away. However, in Rev. 17, there is absolutely no description or phrasing that should lead one to believe it is Jerusalem. The whore and the beast are two separate locations that hate each other.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
15,973
3,379
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Sorry, there are literally hundreds of great cities in the world today. What sets them apart is the context of how they are described or singled out. Rev. 11:8 gives it away by "where he was crucified". In Rev. 21 we are told the name of it right away. However, in Rev. 17, there is absolutely no description or phrasing that should lead one to believe it is Jerusalem. The whore and the beast are two separate locations that hate each other.

Nope, the beast hating the whore is interpreted in the wrong way by many Christian pastors, even to the deceptive level that they claim the Babylon Harlot will be the Christian Church at the End! They are deceived and don't know enough of total Bible prophecy about the End to know what Jesus was revealing in Rev.17 about the harlot city.

We already have a major Bible witness with God using the idea of a harlot for Jerusalem in its past when His people fell away from Him, and went to idol worship, and EVEN SACRIFICED THEIR CHILDREN IN THE FIRE (like Jeremiah 7)!

It's commendable to want to defend Jerusalem's honor, simply because God has chosen to put His Name there forever. He has long ago laid claim to it. Yet He is ALLOWING these events at the end of this world in Jerusalem to come to pass, as it is going to do a bunch of pruning of those who don't listen to HIM, in HIS Word, but instead to men.

As for the term "great city" in Revelation 11:8, is well defines that it is JERUSALEM being talked about there, because it is pointing to where Christ was crucified. The temple in the Revelation 11:1-2 Scripture that Apostle John is told to go measure also is a major pointer that JERUSALEM is where that is taking place, and where God's "two witnesses" will appear at the end of this world to prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. So we really don't have to try... and rely just on that "great city" term to know... the Scripture is pointing directly to JERUSALEM, and not to anywhere else on earth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

Davidpt

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2023
2,512
797
113
68
East Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course those things God rebuked His people in Jerusalem for there in Ezekiel 16 was past history. Do you think just because those things happened in the past that means they cannot happen at the END of this world? You're fooling yourself if you think that.

The "great city" in the last verse of Revelation 17 is Jerusalem. Per Revelation 11:8, where Jesus was crucified is called the "great city". In Revelation 21, the new Jerusalem is called the "great city". I think Lord Jesus Christ made it very plain that He was pointing to Jerusalem as the symbolic Babylon Harlot of Revelation 17, which we are told in that Chapter is a "great city."

Here is the problem. Especially if one is Premil and insists that the NJ does not come down from God out of heaven until after the GWTJ. Which means---the 2nd coming--followed by the millennium---followed by satan's little season---followed by the GWTJ---followed by--the NJ comes down from God out of heaven.

The following is the fate of Babylon during the 2nd coming, which you insist is really meaning Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


We can not ignore the following since it literally means exactly what it says---shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


IOW---what part of---and shall be found no more at all--are some not comprehending? The reason I ask is based on the following.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Per Premil this would be meaning during the millennium after Christ had returned. Per Premil this would be meaning after Revelation 18:21-24 was fulfilled during the 2nd coming before the beginning of the millennium.

Which then begs the question per this scenario--if Revelation 18:21-24 is meaning Jerusalem, and that it will be found no more at all, then what Jerusalem is Zechariah 14:16-19 pertaining to? IOW, it is a blatant contradiction to take Revelation 18:21-24 to be meaning Jerusalem, then take Zechariah 14:16-19 to be meaning this same Jerusalem after it shall be found no more at all. Anyone with a brain knows that makes zero sense, that if Jerusalem is meant in Revelation 18, that after it can't be found no more at all, it is still found, thus making it an outright lie when it said this of the city meant---and shall be found no more at all.

Assuming Revelation 18:21-24 is meaning Jerusalem, is there a solution then, if assuming the millennium follows the 2nd coming? Of course there is. The old Jerusalem is not what is meant by Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:16-19, the NJ is what is meant by it. And now, chapters, such as Isaiah 60 tend to make sense, since some of that is involving the time of Revelation 21-22, and in the midst of that context is this--

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

That is not meaning during the here and now. Because of it it, one has to apply Revelation 21-22 to the here and now as well, since it is plainly obvious that, Isaiah 60:11, for example, is meaning Revelation 21:24-26. Therefore, it is meaning during the millennium if the millennium follows the 2nd coming. Which then means, like I have been saying all along, the NJ is already present during the millennium. Except most Premils argue otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
24,401
9,214
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Gender
Male
WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Orthodox religious Jews, especially in today's Jerusalem since Israel became a nation again by U.N. vote in 1948, are pushing the lie that God is doing their final 'gathering' of His people there today

Christians understand that God is calling the Jews back to their HomeLand in the Middle East.

This is why the INDEPENDENT Nation State of Israel now exists since 1948., and will continue to exist no matter how many "Ballistic Missles" are fired at Israel again tonight...the same as last night., and nearly the last 20 yrs of "nights" by IRAN.
So, none of this that is being caused by religious Islamic Devils and supported by deceived similar ""others"" will be able to destroy Israel.
Watch and see.....
Israel is protected by God, forever, and soon enough the Living Lord Jesus is going to be standing in Jerusalem, and the born again will be right there with Him, helping Him REIGN.

That happens right after the TribULation, which is going to start very soon, and that is when God is going to specifically resume His dealing with "the Jew", starting with 144,000 of them.
 
Last edited:

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,853
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
As for the term "great city" in Revelation 11:8, is well defines that it is JERUSALEM being talked about there, because it is pointing to where Christ was crucified.
Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem. It seems that many people don't have the following verses in their Bibles.

John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

Near the city means not in the city.

Hebrews 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Outside the city gate means outside the city. No one would try to say that the bodies of the animal sin offerings were burned inside the camp when it says they were burned outside the camp. Likewise, it makes no sense for someone to claim that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem when it says He was crucified outside Jerusalem. The great city is not Jerusalem. The great city Babylon is the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem which is "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9). The holy city New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ (the church). The great city Babylon represents everything that opposes Jesus and His church.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,853
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Here is the problem. Especially if one is Premil and insists that the NJ does not come down from God out of heaven until after the GWTJ.
As a vast majority of Premils do. So, with that being the case, would you say that a vast majority of Premils are wrong in their understanding of the timing of future events?

Which means---the 2nd coming--followed by the millennium---followed by satan's little season---followed by the GWTJ---followed by--the NJ comes down from God out of heaven.

The following is the fate of Babylon during the 2nd coming, which you insist is really meaning Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


We can not ignore the following since it literally means exactly what it says---shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


IOW---what part of---and shall be found no more at all--are some not comprehending? The reason I ask is based on the following.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Per Premil this would be meaning during the millennium after Christ had returned. Per Premil this would be meaning after Revelation 18:21-24 was fulfilled during the 2nd coming before the beginning of the millennium.

Which then begs the question per this scenario--if Revelation 18:21-24 is meaning Jerusalem, and that it will be found no more at all, then what Jerusalem is Zechariah 14:16-19 pertaining to? IOW, it is a blatant contradiction to take Revelation 18:21-24 to be meaning Jerusalem, then take Zechariah 14:16-19 to be meaning this same Jerusalem after it shall be found no more at all. Anyone with a brain knows that makes zero sense, that if Jerusalem is meant in Revelation 18, that after it can't be found no more at all, it is still found, thus making it an outright lie when it said this of the city meant---and shall be found no more at all.

Assuming Revelation 18:21-24 is meaning Jerusalem, is there a solution then, if assuming the millennium follows the 2nd coming? Of course there is. The old Jerusalem is not what is meant by Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:16-19, the NJ is what is meant by it. And now, chapters, such as Isaiah 60 tend to make sense, since some of that is involving the time of Revelation 21-22, and in the midst of that context is this--

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

That is not meaning during the here and now. Because of it it, one has to apply Revelation 21-22 to the here and now as well, since it is plainly obvious that, Isaiah 60:11, for example, is meaning Revelation 21:24-26. Therefore, it is meaning during the millennium if the millennium follows the 2nd coming. Which then means, like I have been saying all along, the NJ is already present during the millennium. Except most Premils argue otherwise.
Most Premils argue otherwise because it makes no sense to think that the NJ, as described in Revelation 21-22, is already present during the millennium.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This passage makes it clear that the New Jerusalem will come down after the current heaven and earth pass away. And, at that point, "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.". But, you don't have the current heaven and earth passing away before the New Jerusalem comes down and you still have death, sorrow, crying and pain occurring after it comes down, which blatantly contradicts what John wrote in the passage above.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,364
3,484
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
God's deliberate gathering of the Israelites will not happen until this, the last age of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities, has become completed.

God's deliberate gathering of the Israelites will not happen until the 2,300 years of the Little Horn using armies to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts has come to its complete conclusion. This completion will be seen with the fulfilment of the sixth Bowl judgement when the kings of the earth will be gathered at Armageddon to be judged at the same time that the war in heaven will end when the wicked fallen heavenly hosts are overcome and tossed out of heaven where they will be immediately gathered with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. This was foretold to us by Isaiah in Isaiah 24:21-22.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:25b-26, that after, with respect time of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles is completed, all of Israel will be saved.

Ezekiel tells us that it will be God who searched for the remnant of Israel and will begin gathering them to Himself from the start of the seventh age..

Ezekiel 34:11-16: - 11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them into their own fertile soil/field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel,[1] where they are living in the river valleys and in all the inhabited places of the earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."



[1] Where the mountains of Israel is a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis, that is "Christ is the Son of God."