This is the context of how Dan. 9:24-27 should be considered!

[Trekson]

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the (national) transgression, and to (This affirms that it is upon Israel and Jerusalem TO fulfill the following tasks) make an end of (national) sins, and to make reconciliation for (national) iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, (escort Christ into Jerusalem after Armageddon for the true triumphal entry) and to seal up the vision and prophecy, (When the next task is done the prophecies concerning Christ and this present dispensation will be completed) and to anoint the most Holy" (As King and Messiah of Israel and the earth as kings were anointed in OT days).

There are no prophecies about the duration of his ministry and as you can see the anointing of the HS is “not” the anointing being spoken, so neither of these qualify as the starting point of the 70th week. There is only one prophecy that speaks of Christ coming as King and that is Zech. 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. This is at the end of his ministry just 2 - 3 days before his being ‘cut off”. Christ’s death was the last day of the 69th week. In the context of Dan. 9, the 70th week is separate from the other 69 and in Dan. 9:26b we have the prophecy about 70ad so in a linear reading of events, vs. 27 comes at an unknown amount of time “after” 70ad.

Also, considering the vast majority of biblical scholars put the writing of Rev. at around 95ad, John is prophesying about a time well into the future from his time. There are a few prophecies in Rev. that could never be understood until we reached a level of technology that made them possible. If one reads Rev. as some sort of false spiritual writing/interpretation instead of the literal interpretation as it should be, one will not even get close to the truth.

Also telling is the fact that the 4th beast of Rev. 7 wasn’t Rome. The ten horns equate w/ the 5th kingdom of the ten toes from Dan. 2. A proper understanding of Dan. 7:17 shows that these beasts are future to Daniel’s time thus eliminating Babylon as being the first beast of Dan. 7. This should bring one to the realization that the 5th kingdom of Dan. 2 and the 4th kingdom of Dan. 7 has not yet arrived. No gap = no church. It was always part of God’s plan and the 70th week will begin in His timing, not ours.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the (national) transgression, and to (This affirms that it is upon Israel and Jerusalem TO fulfill the following tasks) make an end of (national) sins, and to make reconciliation for (national) iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, (escort Christ into Jerusalem after Armageddon for the true triumphal entry) and to seal up the vision and prophecy, (When the next task is done the prophecies concerning Christ and this present dispensation will be completed) and to anoint the most Holy" (As King and Messiah of Israel and the earth as kings were anointed in OT days).

You, like all dispensationalists, do not understand what the phrase "seventy weeks are determined" means. It means a time period of 70 weeks (490 years) was determined by the end of which the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled. That does not allow for any possibility of the imaginary gap that dispensationalists place between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week. In dispensationalism it will be at least around 2,500 years being determined to fulfill those six things instead of the 490 years determined by God.

Only Jesus could fulfilled the six things listed in Daniel 9:24! It is ludicrous to think that the Israelite people themselves could ever fulfill those things.

The New Testament tells us how those six things were fulfilled long ago by Jesus Christ. We don't have to speculate like dispensationalists about how and when it will happen. We can instead allow scripture to interpret scripture for us.

1. To Finish Transgression

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace".

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

2. To Put An End To Sin

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not.

2 Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

3. To Make Reconciliation/Atonement for Iniquity

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven

4. To Bring In Everlasting Righteousness

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

5. To Seal Up the Vision and Prophecy

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.

6. To Anoint The Most Holy

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel.

Only Jesus could fulfill those things. Without His death and resurrection, none of those things could be fulfilled. So, if your interpretation of the 70 week prophecy does not have Him being cut off (crucified) within the 70th week, it is a false doctrine as His death is crucial to fulfilling the prophecy. He was to be cut off after the end of the 69th week (Daniel 9:26) and that placed the timing of His death within the 70th week. What Daniel 9:27 is about is that Jesus was cut off in the midst of the 70th week which caused the old covenant animals sacrifices and offerings to become obsolete and that established the new covenant. The remaining confirmation of the new covenant in the 70th week was accomplished by the preaching of the gospel of Christ in Israel before it went out to the Gentiles. The consummation mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is related to the Jews having rejected Christ and having Him crucified and that consummation occurred in 70 AD when the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary were destroyed, as prophesied in Daniel 9:26.

 

[Trekson]

You, like all dispensationalists, do not understand what the phrase "seventy weeks are determined" means. It means a time period of 70 weeks (490 years) was determined by the end of which the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled. That does not allow for any possibility of the imaginary gap that dispensationalists place between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week. In dispensationalism it will be at least around 2,500 years being determined to fulfill those six things instead of the 490 years determined by God.

Only Jesus could fulfilled the six things listed in Daniel 9:24! It is ludicrous to think that the Israelite people themselves could ever fulfill those things.

The New Testament tells us how those six things were fulfilled long ago by Jesus Christ. We don't have to speculate like dispensationalists about how and when it will happen. We can instead allow scripture to interpret scripture for us.

1. To Finish Transgression

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace".

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

2. To Put An End To Sin

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not.

2 Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

3. To Make Reconciliation/Atonement for Iniquity

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven

4. To Bring In Everlasting Righteousness

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

5. To Seal Up the Vision and Prophecy

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.

6. To Anoint The Most Holy

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel.

Only Jesus could fulfill those things. Without His death and resurrection, none of those things could be fulfilled. So, if your interpretation of the 70 week prophecy does not have Him being cut off (crucified) within the 70th week, it is a false doctrine as His death is crucial to fulfilling the prophecy. He was to be cut off after the end of the 69th week (Daniel 9:26) and that placed the timing of His death within the 70th week. What Daniel 9:27 is about is that Jesus was cut off in the midst of the 70th week which caused the old covenant animals sacrifices and offerings to become obsolete and that established the new covenant. The remaining confirmation of the new covenant in the 70th week was accomplished by the preaching of the gospel of Christ in Israel before it went out to the Gentiles. The consummation mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is related to the Jews having rejected Christ and having Him crucified and that consummation occurred in 70 AD when the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary were destroyed, as prophesied in Daniel 9:26.

If you can't see the truth that I laid out, that's ok, maybe someday you will. "Determined" doesn't mean it has to be consecutive. It's the context itself that divides it 2 weeks, 62 weeks, 1 week. Why do you think that one week is all by itself? All Israel has to do to fullfill the goals of 9:24, is to repent of their national sins on a national level and the bible shows they will via the 1/3 of Zech. 13:8-9, that will be alive post Armageddon. Jesus was "cut off" on the last day of the 69th week. The 70th week never started. Vs. 27 is spoken of "after" 26 because it's fulfillment will be an unknown amount of time after 70ad.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you can't see the truth that I laid out, that's ok, maybe someday you will.

LOL. I just laid out the truth, but you are apparently too closed minded to consider it, as evidenced by the fact that you didn't even attempt to address anything I said about it. Maybe someday you will.

"Determined" doesn't mean it has to be consecutive.

Yes, it does. Your twisting of the text to make it say that you want to say is unacceptable. There is no gap in the prophecy.

It's the context itself that divides it 2 weeks, 62 weeks, 1 week.

You mean 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week. So what? The 7 weeks come first, so do you claim that there is a gap between the end of the 7th and beginning of the 8th weeks? If not, then the division of the weeks is not proof that there is any gap between any of the weeks.

Why do you think that one week is all by itself?

Because that is when the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 were going to be fulfilled and when Jesus was going to confirm the new covenant. It certainly has nothing to do with any imaginary gap between 69th and 70th weeks.

All Israel has to do to fullfill the goals of 9:24, is to repent of their national sins on a national level and the bible shows they will via the 1/3 of Zech. 13:8-9, that will be alive post Armageddon.

LOL. Nonsense! You think Israel can accomplish what only Jesus could accomplish for them! That is blasphemy! Why did Jesus have to die for their sins if they can accomplish those things themselves?

Jesus was "cut off" on the last day of the 69th week.

Nonsense! You are blatantly twisting the text! It says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week, not on the last day of the 69th week. And it doesn't specify how long after the 69th week that He would be cut off. Stop being so dishonest with holy scripture! That is shameful and unacceptable!

The 70th week never started. Vs. 27 is spoken of "after" 26 because it's fulfillment will be an unknown amount of time after 70ad.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.

 

[covenantee]

"Determined" doesn't mean it has to be consecutive.

It certainly does.

Daniel 9:24 Hebrew

2852 [e]
neḥ·taḵ
נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ
are determined
V‑Nifal‑Perf‑3ms

​

◄ 2852. chathak ►

"1. (properly) to cut off"

Daniel declares, "Seventy weeks are determined..." i.e. cut off

Dispenites whine "Only sixty-nine weeks are determined..."

Whom to believe?

Who needs a hint?

 

[covenantee]

You, like all dispensationalists, do not understand what the phrase "seventy weeks are determined" means. It means a time period of 70 weeks (490 years) was determined by the end of which the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled. That does not allow for any possibility of the imaginary gap that dispensationalists place between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week. In dispensationalism it will be at least around 2,500 years being determined to fulfill those six things instead of the 490 years determined by God.

Only Jesus could fulfilled the six things listed in Daniel 9:24! It is ludicrous to think that the Israelite people themselves could ever fulfill those things.

The New Testament tells us how those six things were fulfilled long ago by Jesus Christ. We don't have to speculate like dispensationalists about how and when it will happen. We can instead allow scripture to interpret scripture for us.

1. To Finish Transgression

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace".

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

2. To Put An End To Sin

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not.

2 Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

3. To Make Reconciliation/Atonement for Iniquity

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven

4. To Bring In Everlasting Righteousness

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

5. To Seal Up the Vision and Prophecy

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.

6. To Anoint The Most Holy

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel.

Only Jesus could fulfill those things. Without His death and resurrection, none of those things could be fulfilled. So, if your interpretation of the 70 week prophecy does not have Him being cut off (crucified) within the 70th week, it is a false doctrine as His death is crucial to fulfilling the prophecy. He was to be cut off after the end of the 69th week (Daniel 9:26) and that placed the timing of His death within the 70th week. What Daniel 9:27 is about is that Jesus was cut off in the midst of the 70th week which caused the old covenant animals sacrifices and offerings to become obsolete and that established the new covenant. The remaining confirmation of the new covenant in the 70th week was accomplished by the preaching of the gospel of Christ in Israel before it went out to the Gentiles. The consummation mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is related to the Jews having rejected Christ and having Him crucified and that consummation occurred in 70 AD when the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary were destroyed, as prophesied in Daniel 9:26.

A most inspirational exegesis, bro.

 

[Trekson]

It certainly does.

Daniel 9:24 Hebrew

2852 [e]
neḥ·taḵ
נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ
are determined
V‑Nifal‑Perf‑3ms

​

◄ 2852. chathak ►

"1. (properly) to cut off"

Daniel declares, "Seventy weeks are determined..." i.e. cut off

Dispenites whine "Only sixty-nine weeks are determined..."

Whom to believe?

Who needs a hint?

Determined, just means planned or set aside. Just like it's been 'determined" that a baseball game has nine innings but that can change a game can be rained out, stopped early because of rain or go into extra innings. It's God who gets to determine when and how he will complete them. The concept that that they have to be completed all in one time frame is wrong. When one understands what happens when they are completed proves they weren't. If Israel had accepted Christ as their Messiah then and there, the millennium would have instantly begun and the church would never have been. Daniel is not about the church, it's about Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Determined, just means planned or set aside. Just like it's been 'determined" that a baseball game has nine innings but that can change a game can be rained out, stopped early because of rain or go into extra innings. It's God who gets to determine when and how he will complete them.

You can't be serious! Your understanding of God is terribly flawed. He already determined that the fulfillment of the prophecy would be 70 weeks (490 years) from start to finish. He does not change His mind after determining what is going to happen. Good grief.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A most inspirational exegesis, bro.

I appreciate that, bro. It doesn't make it automatically right, of course. The scriptural evidence to support our view is pretty overwhelming, in my opinion. But, do we ever see dispensationalists support their beliefs in a similar manner? Never. The next time a dispensationalist exegetes scripture will be the first time.

 

[claninja]

Also, considering the vast majority of biblical scholars put the writing of Rev. at around 95ad, John is prophesying about a time well into the future from his time.

Not quite true. Jesus told John the events of revelation were to “quickly occur” and that the “time was near” in revelation 1. That is not “well into the future”.

I think the prophecies of revelation that you could argue were “well into the future” would be those occurring post the “1000 years”, as a thousand years would be well into the future from when John wrote revelation.

 

[covenantee]

Determined, just means planned or set aside. Just like it's been 'determined" that a baseball game has nine innings but that can change a game can be rained out, stopped early because of rain or go into extra innings. It's God who gets to determine when and how he will complete them. The concept that that they have to be completed all in one time frame is wrong. When one understands what happens when they are completed proves they weren't. If Israel had accepted Christ as their Messiah then and there, the millennium would have instantly begun and the church would never have been. Daniel is not about the church, it's about Israel.

Obviously a little Hebrew is too much for you.

You're simply substituting your own private interpretation for Daniel's inspired declaration.

Since you don't understand it, just leave it for those who do.

You're about Israel.

Daniel is about Messiah the Prince.

I believe Daniel.

Every time.

 

[Trekson]

Not quite true. Jesus told John the events of revelation were to “quickly occur” and that the “time was near” in revelation 1. That is not “well into the future”.

I think the prophecies of revelation that you could argue were “well into the future” would be those occurring post the “1000 years”, as a thousand years would be well into the future from when John wrote revelation.

None of the prophecies from Rev. 6 to the end of the book have been fulfilled yet and timing depends on one's perception. In heaven time, it's only been a couple of days.

 

[Trekson]

Obviously a little Hebrew is too much for you.

You're simply substituting your own private interpretation for Daniel's inspired declaration.

Since you don't understand it, just leave it for those who do.

You're about Israel.

Daniel is about Messiah the Prince.

I believe Daniel.

Every time.

Well, yes, Daniel does mention the Messiah twice, in the whole book and there may be another couple of verses that speak about him. But to suggest that the Book of Daniel is "all about" Christ is flat out wrong. You could probably search the whole internet and won't find anyone that believes that, but unfortunately there are several like you that just haven't learned to "rightly divide the word of truth" yet.

 

[ScottA]

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the (national) transgression, and to (This affirms that it is upon Israel and Jerusalem TO fulfill the following tasks) make an end of (national) sins, and to make reconciliation for (national) iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, (escort Christ into Jerusalem after Armageddon for the true triumphal entry) and to seal up the vision and prophecy, (When the next task is done the prophecies concerning Christ and this present dispensation will be completed) and to anoint the most Holy" (As King and Messiah of Israel and the earth as kings were anointed in OT days).

There are no prophecies about the duration of his ministry and as you can see the anointing of the HS is “not” the anointing being spoken, so neither of these qualify as the starting point of the 70th week. There is only one prophecy that speaks of Christ coming as King and that is Zech. 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. This is at the end of his ministry just 2 - 3 days before his being ‘cut off”. Christ’s death was the last day of the 69th week. In the context of Dan. 9, the 70th week is separate from the other 69 and in Dan. 9:26b we have the prophecy about 70ad so in a linear reading of events, vs. 27 comes at an unknown amount of time “after” 70ad.

Also, considering the vast majority of biblical scholars put the writing of Rev. at around 95ad, John is prophesying about a time well into the future from his time. There are a few prophecies in Rev. that could never be understood until we reached a level of technology that made them possible. If one reads Rev. as some sort of false spiritual writing/interpretation instead of the literal interpretation as it should be, one will not even get close to the truth.

Also telling is the fact that the 4th beast of Rev. 7 wasn’t Rome. The ten horns equate w/ the 5th kingdom of the ten toes from Dan. 2. A proper understanding of Dan. 7:17 shows that these beasts are future to Daniel’s time thus eliminating Babylon as being the first beast of Dan. 7. This should bring one to the realization that the 5th kingdom of Dan. 2 and the 4th kingdom of Dan. 7 has not yet arrived. No gap = no church. It was always part of God’s plan and the 70th week will begin in His timing, not ours.

Unfortunately, this makes a good example of making claims as if they are fact, based on one's own understanding, not as truth, but mere speculation, conjecture, opinion, and one's own interpretation.

Anyone who actually cares to know the truth, would do well to understand that this is not how God makes His actual truth known. More: How is it that you come by your information?

 

[ScottA]

None of the prophecies from Rev. 6 to the end of the book have been fulfilled yet and timing depends on one's perception. In heaven time, it's only been a couple of days.

Name one.

 

[Trekson]

Unfortunately, this makes a good example of making claims as if they are fact, based on one's own understanding, not as truth, but mere speculation, conjecture, opinion, and one's own interpretation.

Anyone who actually cares to know the truth, would do well to understand that this is not how God makes His actual truth known. More: How is it that you come by your information?

I just believe what I read in the linear way it was written and it lines up w/ the rest of the prophetic narrative. I always find it amazing that folks can't see and understand this.

 

[Trekson]

Name one.

Name one what? I think "all" is pretty inclusive.

 

[Trekson]

I just believe what I read in the linear way it was written and it lines up w/ the rest of the prophetic narrative. I always find it amazing that folks can't see and understand this. It's how the HS guides me.

 

[covenantee]

Well, yes, Daniel does mention the Messiah twice, in the whole book and there may be another couple of verses that speak about him. But to suggest that the Book of Daniel is "all about" Christ is flat out wrong. You could probably search the whole internet and won't find anyone that believes that, but unfortunately there are several like you that just haven't learned to "rightly divide the word of truth" yet.

Link to any post in which I've said that "the Book of Daniel is "all about" Christ".

Then go visit your optometrist. Don't collide with anything on the way.

Then tell us how to "rightly divide the word of truth".

 

[covenantee]

I just believe what I read in the linear way it was written and it lines up w/ the rest of the prophetic narrative. I always find it amazing that folks can't see and understand this.

There's nothing more linear than 70 determined fulfilled weeks.

You must be amazed with yourself, since you can't see and understand this.