THE REASON THE NEWER BIBLES DIFFER FROM THE KJV IS DUE TO GNOSTIC CHANGES

[Doug]

The differences in Bible verses between the KJV and the newer Bibles is due to Gnostic teaching from Alexandria Egypt infiltrating the manuscripts used for the new Bibles

[Luke 2:33 KJV] "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
[Luke 2:33 ESV] "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him." ********* This is gnostic doctrine. They reject Christ's incarnation and change Joseph to be his father. Joseph wasn't Christ's father.

[Acts 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
[Acts 8:37 NIV] "" Omitted *********** Gnostics deny the deity of Christ

[Matthew 13:51 KJV] "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."
[Matthew 13:51 NIV] ""Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied." ******** Gnostics deny that Jesus is Lord, so they remove it.

[1 John 4:3 KJV] "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
[1 John 4:3 NIV] "but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." ********* Gnostics deny that Jesus is Christ so Christ was removed.

[Matthew 19:16 KJV] "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
[Matthew 19:16 NIV] "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"" ******** Gnostics deny Jesus was sinless so they remove Good

[John 16:16 KJV] "A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."
[John 16:16 NIV] "Jesus went on to say, "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."" ********* Gnostics deny the bodily resurrection. They deny Christ would physically go to the Father.

[Luke 24:51 KJV] "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
[Luke 24:51 NIV] "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven." ******** This once again denies a bodily resurrection. This is subtle, but a body is carried up and a spirit is taken up.

[Matthew 25:13 KJV] "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
[Matthew 25:13 NIV] ""Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." ************* Gnostics deny Jesus will come again so they omit cometh

[John 6:47 KJV] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
[John 6:47 NIV] "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." ******** Gnostics teach universal salvation and remove the object of saving faith, which is faith in Christ.

 

[MonoBiblical]

The differences in Bible verses between the KJV and the newer Bibles is due to Gnostic teaching from Alexandria Egypt infiltrating the manuscripts used for the new Bibles

[Luke 2:33 KJV] "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
[Luke 2:33 ESV] "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him." ********* This is gnostic doctrine. They reject Christ's incarnation and change Joseph to be his father. Joseph wasn't Christ's father.

[Acts 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
[Acts 8:37 NIV] "" Omitted *********** Gnostics deny the deity of Christ

[Matthew 13:51 KJV] "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."
[Matthew 13:51 NIV] ""Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied." ******** Gnostics deny that Jesus is Lord, so they remove it.

[Matthew 19:16 KJV] "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
[Matthew 19:16 NIV] "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"" ******** Gnostics deny Jesus was sinless so they remove Good

[John 16:16 KJV] "A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."
[John 16:16 NIV] "Jesus went on to say, "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."" ********* Gnostics deny the bodily resurrection. They deny Christ would physically go to the Father.

[Luke 24:51 KJV] "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
[Luke 24:51 NIV] "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven." ******** This once again denies a bodily resurrection. This is subtle, but a body is carried up and a spirit is taken up.

[Matthew 25:13 KJV] "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
[Matthew 25:13 NIV] ""Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." ************* Gnostics deny Jesus will come again so they omit cometh

[John 6:47 KJV] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
[John 6:47 NIV] "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." ******** Gnostics teach universal salvation and remove the object of saving faith, which is faith in Christ.

Gnostics of the classical era denied the humanity of Christ. And if you think Gnosticism is new to the New Testament English bible, I have news for you. Gnosticism is part of Christianity.

 

[ScottA]

The differences in Bible verses between the KJV and the newer Bibles is due to Gnostic teaching from Alexandria Egypt infiltrating the manuscripts used for the new Bibles

[Luke 2:33 KJV] "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
[Luke 2:33 ESV] "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him." ********* This is gnostic doctrine. They reject Christ's incarnation and change Joseph to be his father. Joseph wasn't Christ's father.

[Acts 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
[Acts 8:37 NIV] "" Omitted *********** Gnostics deny the deity of Christ

[Matthew 13:51 KJV] "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."
[Matthew 13:51 NIV] ""Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied." ******** Gnostics deny that Jesus is Lord, so they remove it.

[Matthew 19:16 KJV] "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
[Matthew 19:16 NIV] "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"" ******** Gnostics deny Jesus was sinless so they remove Good

[John 16:16 KJV] "A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."
[John 16:16 NIV] "Jesus went on to say, "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."" ********* Gnostics deny the bodily resurrection. They deny Christ would physically go to the Father.

[Luke 24:51 KJV] "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
[Luke 24:51 NIV] "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven." ******** This once again denies a bodily resurrection. This is subtle, but a body is carried up and a spirit is taken up.

[Matthew 25:13 KJV] "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
[Matthew 25:13 NIV] ""Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." ************* Gnostics deny Jesus will come again so they omit cometh

[John 6:47 KJV] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
[John 6:47 NIV] "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." ******** Gnostics teach universal salvation and remove the object of saving faith, which is faith in Christ.

"Gnostic changes?"

You have shown the obvious differences in translation--but why do you only blame the Gnostics--were all translations other than the KJV made by Gnostics?

 

[MonoBiblical]

"Gnostic changes?"

You have shown the obvious differences in translation--but why do you only blame the Gnostics--were all translations other than the KJV made by Gnostics?

Edit: I mistakenly responded to you here.

It would be from the Greek to English, perhaps even Latin. I would have to explain Gnosticism and demonstrate the Gnosticism. I am only in your imagination, KJV only. My apologies.

 

[Justified]

The differences in Bible verses between the KJV and the newer Bibles is due to Gnostic teaching from Alexandria Egypt infiltrating the manuscripts used for the new Bibles

[Luke 2:33 KJV] "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
[Luke 2:33 ESV] "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him." ********* This is gnostic doctrine. They reject Christ's incarnation and change Joseph to be his father. Joseph wasn't Christ's father.

[Acts 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
[Acts 8:37 NIV] "" Omitted *********** Gnostics deny the deity of Christ

[Matthew 13:51 KJV] "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."
[Matthew 13:51 NIV] ""Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied." ******** Gnostics deny that Jesus is Lord, so they remove it.

[Matthew 19:16 KJV] "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
[Matthew 19:16 NIV] "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"" ******** Gnostics deny Jesus was sinless so they remove Good

[John 16:16 KJV] "A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."
[John 16:16 NIV] "Jesus went on to say, "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."" ********* Gnostics deny the bodily resurrection. They deny Christ would physically go to the Father.

[Luke 24:51 KJV] "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
[Luke 24:51 NIV] "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven." ******** This once again denies a bodily resurrection. This is subtle, but a body is carried up and a spirit is taken up.

[Matthew 25:13 KJV] "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
[Matthew 25:13 NIV] ""Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." ************* Gnostics deny Jesus will come again so they omit cometh

[John 6:47 KJV] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
[John 6:47 NIV] "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." ******** Gnostics teach universal salvation and remove the object of saving faith, which is faith in Christ.

This is all blatantly false. If these things were truly the purpose, they did a terrible job of it, since all that information is throughout the NT.

 

[ScottA]

Gnostic changes accepted by the creators of the new versions and a push to promote ecumenism

"Gnostic" may be a good word for it, but "ecumenism" (defined) is better:

Ecumenism​

is the movement, principles, and organized efforts aimed at promoting unity, cooperation, and better understanding among different Christian churches and denominations. Derived from the Greek oikoumene ("the whole inhabited world"), it seeks to heal historical divisions and foster collaboration in mission and service.​

 

[Wick Stick]

The differences in Bible verses between the KJV and the newer Bibles is due to Gnostic teaching from Alexandria Egypt infiltrating the manuscripts used for the new Bibles

[Luke 2:33 KJV] "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
[Luke 2:33 ESV] "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him." ********* This is gnostic doctrine. They reject Christ's incarnation and change Joseph to be his father. Joseph wasn't Christ's father.

[Acts 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
[Acts 8:37 NIV] "" Omitted *********** Gnostics deny the deity of Christ

[Matthew 13:51 KJV] "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."
[Matthew 13:51 NIV] ""Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied." ******** Gnostics deny that Jesus is Lord, so they remove it.

[Matthew 19:16 KJV] "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
[Matthew 19:16 NIV] "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"" ******** Gnostics deny Jesus was sinless so they remove Good

[John 16:16 KJV] "A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."
[John 16:16 NIV] "Jesus went on to say, "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."" ********* Gnostics deny the bodily resurrection. They deny Christ would physically go to the Father.

[Luke 24:51 KJV] "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
[Luke 24:51 NIV] "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven." ******** This once again denies a bodily resurrection. This is subtle, but a body is carried up and a spirit is taken up.

[Matthew 25:13 KJV] "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
[Matthew 25:13 NIV] ""Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." ************* Gnostics deny Jesus will come again so they omit cometh

[John 6:47 KJV] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
[John 6:47 NIV] "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." ******** Gnostics teach universal salvation and remove the object of saving faith, which is faith in Christ.

Most of these have nothing to do with gnosticism, and everything to do with the fact that the NIV is just not a very good translation.

 

[Wick Stick]

The NIV and others uses the Alexandrian family of texts. These were texts I believe originated with Gnostics who manufactured them. They reflect their beliefs.
The compilers of the NIV decided to rely on this corrupt family of manuscripts

That's about the 5th biggest problem with the NIV.

From the preface to the NIV:

A second linguistic principle that feeds into the Committee's translation work is that meaning is found not in individual words, as vital as they are, but in larger clusters: phrases, clauses, sentences, discourses. Translation is not, as many people think, a matter of word substitution: English word x in place of Hebrew word y. Translators must first determine the meaning of the words of the biblical languages in the context of the passage and then select English words that accurately communicate that meaning to modern listeners and readers. This means that accurate translation will not always reflect the exact structure of the original language.

Did you get that? It sounds reasonable at first, but in practice it means that the translators didn't preserve the grammar of the original language, nor is there ANY correspondence between any single English word, and a certain word in the original language.

 

[Justified]

The Gnostics made changes where they could to verses that contradicted their doctrine. The manuscript changes they made reflected in the Alexandrian texts were accepted by the textual critics

You haven’t provided any evidence to support your claim. This is merely opinion, in a vain attempt to discredit a legitimate, and good, Bible translation.

 

[MonoBiblical]

You haven’t provided any evidence to support your claim. This is merely opinion, in a vain attempt to discredit a legitimate, and good, Bible translation.

The NIV is very weak, and an extreme total inability bent. James White was behind it. Please don't support Rupert Murdoch [more] than you have too.

 

[Justified]

The NIV is very weak, and an extreme total inability bent. James White was behind it. Please don't support Rupert Murdoch than you have too.

The NIV is a very good translation that I would recommend to a believer, especially a new believer, over the KJV every single time. I would actually never recommend the KJV due to how archaic it is, but if someone wants to use it, that’s fine.

 

[MonoBiblical]

The NIV is a very good translation that I would recommend to a believer, especially a nee believer, over the KJV every single time. I would actually never recommend the KJV due to how archaic it is, but if someone wants to use it, that’s fine.

I would recommend Green's Literal Translation before supporting Rupert Murdoch.

 

[Wick Stick]

Its all part and parcel to textual criticism. Dynamic equivalence allows an individual to subjectively tell us what the scripture means. What they believe and want it to say is contradictory to what God has said. Its not wanting what scripture says that leads also for choosing to use a manuscript that changes the Word of God

You basically just said that dynamic equivalence allows the translator to make the text say... whatever they want it to.

Isn't that a problem?

The NIV is garbage

 

[Justified]

Its all part and parcel to textual criticism. Dynamic equivalence allows an individual to subjectively tell us what the scripture means. What they believe and want it to say is contradictory to what God has said. Its not wanting what scripture says that leads also for choosing to use a manuscript that changes the Word of God

And yet you have been unable to prove any of this. It's all been your subjective opinion based on ignoring context.

 

[Wick Stick]

And yet you have been unable to prove any of this. It's all been your subjective opinion based on ignoring context.

Why would anyone need to prove something that can simply be observed?

Do you also want proof that the sky is blue? That grass grows when watered? What are we doing here?

 

[Justified]

Why would anyone need to prove something that can simply be observed?

Do you also want proof that the sky is blue? That grass grows when watered? What are we doing here?

What we are doing is dealing with serious claims regarding Bible translations that require evidence. Arguing to what even unbelievers can observe and understand has zero bearing on the issue.

Any Christian who makes a truth claim should be concerned that their claim is based on evidence and be willing to provide that evidence.

 

[Wick Stick]

What we are doing is dealing with serious claims regarding Bible translations that require evidence. Arguing to what even unbelievers can observe and understand has zero bearing on the issue.

Any Christian who makes a truth claim should be concerned that their claim is based on evidence and be willing to provide that evidence.

Grab your NIV. Open it to the introduction. You can read where the translators tell you themselves that they forsook accepted norms for translation and did something completely new. You can further read where they tell you that their new process severs the link between English grammar and the grammar of the original languages. I quoted that bit above (post #11).

Every hermeneutic for understanding Scripture relies on the grammar there. The NIV translators did away with that grammar.

 

[Justified]

Grab your NIV. Open it to the introduction. You can read where the translators tell you themselves that they forsook accepted norms for translation and did something completely new. You can further read where they tell you that their new process severs the link between English grammar and the grammar of the original languages. I quoted that bit above (post #11).

Every hermeneutic for understanding Scripture relies on the grammar there. The NIV translators did away with that grammar.

This is bearing false witness. Read your quote from the preface again; you have gone much further here than what they actually state.

Here is a quote from the 1984 NIV Preface:

"The first concern of the translators has been the accuracy of the translation and its fidelity to the through of the biblical writers. They have weighed the significance of the lexical and grammatical details of the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. At the same time, they have striven for more than a word-for-word translation. Because through patterns and syntax differ from language to language, faithful communication of the meaning of the writers of the Bible demands frequent modifications in sentence structure and constant regard for the contextual meanings of words."


Speaking of prefaces, let's look at the 1611 KJV preface, written by its translators:

"Now in such a case, doth not a margin do well to admonish the Reader to seek further, and not to conclude or dogmatize upon this or that peremptorily? For as it is a fault of incredulity, to doubt of those things that are evident: so to determine of such things as the Spirit of God hath left (even in the judgment of the judicious) questionable, can be no less than presumption. Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversity of signification and sense in the margin, where the text is no so clear, must needs do good, yea, is necessary, as we are persuaded. . . . They that are wise, had rather have their judgments at liberty in differences of readings, than to be captivated to one, when it may be the other."

The Translators to the Reader

Even the KJV translators weren't sure of the accuracy of some of what they translated due to notes in the margins. So why are so many of you more sure than they were?

 

[Justified]

Prove what?

If you have to ask, then maybe this discussion isn't for you.

 

[Justified]

There is no evidence in regard to which is the most reliable Bible because there are no originals to compare.

Exactly! Hence why all your arguments against the NIV and other modern versions, and your arguments solely in favour of the KJV, completely miss the mark and are fallacious.

You've just completely undermined your entire position.

There arent thousands of missing words from the KJV manuscripts. You have to make up your own mind.

No, but there could be thousands added.