This is the context of how Dan. 9:24-27 should be considered!

[claninja]

LOL! You're a comedian. And you bore me. It's not like I was not already getting bored with you before that one post. But, go ahead and think otherwise if you want.

I’m glad me describing the purpose of yawning could provide some entertainment.

That being said, not everyone enjoys getting into the fine details of Greek grammar, so I understand that going beyond the English surface level reading may be boring to some. You are literally bored everytime you attempt to engage me in discussion. If I had a dollar for every time you told me you are bored, I’d be rich.
So it’s always surprising that you continually try to respond to things that I post.

Since it’s obvious you were not understanding what the linear/continous aspect means in regards to present tense verbs, I’ll refrain from those boring topics. Overall, we agree the verb “I am coming”, in revelation 22:12, while being a present tense verb, is indicative of a future action. We both agree that tachy is better translated as quickly, not soon or near.

In order to determine if a present tense verb is happening now or at a different time such as future or past, context is needed to fill in the gap.

The disagreement then is what vs 10 means - “do not deal up the vision for the time is near”.

 

[Zao is life]

To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.

They recognized the sign, and fled, and saved their lives.

In your opinion. Where does it say that

(a) In scripture; and

(b) in the history of the early church (ECF etc)?

Though you may dig up an opinion of some early Christian author, you won't find it in scripture - because it's not there and is not true.

 

[rvmb]

To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.

They recognized the sign, and fled, and saved their lives.

Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?

 

[Zao is life]

I’m glad me describing the purpose of yawning could provide some entertainment.

That being said, not everyone enjoys getting into the fine details of Greek grammar, so I understand that going beyond the English surface level reading may be boring to some. You are literally bored everytime you attempt to engage me in discussion. If I had a dollar for every time you told me you are bored, I’d be rich.
So it’s always surprising that you continually try to respond to things that I post.

Since it’s obvious you were not understanding what the linear/continous aspect means in regards to present tense verbs, I’ll refrain from those boring topics. Overall, we agree the verb “I am coming”, in revelation 22:12, while being a present tense verb, is indicative of a future action. We both agree that tachy is better translated as quickly, not soon or near.

In order to determine if a present tense verb is happening now or at a different time such as future or past, context is needed to fill in the gap.

The disagreement then is what vs 10 means - “do not deal up the vision for the time is near”.

"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be [G1096 ginomai - come to pass] hereafter [meta tauta G3326 G3777]" (Revelation 1:19).

"After [meta tauta] this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be [G1096 ginomai - come to pass] hereafter [meta]. (Revelation 4:1)

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly [G5035 tachu], and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. (Revelation 2:5)

5034 τάχος tavcos tachos {takh'-os}
from the same as 5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.
see GREEK for 5036

5035 ταχύ tacuv tachu {takh-oo'}
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:--lightly, quickly.
see GREEK for 5036

5036 ταχύς tacuvs tachus {takh-oos'}
of uncertain affinity; fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

"And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily [G5034 tachos]. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:6-8)

How soon is "soon" for Jesus? Does anyone know? Can anyone say?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36).

But some say "I know!" - because I have worked it out by numerology / the biblical Jubilee years / some other way.
And some say "I know!" - because by what is written I have worked out that He has already come.

But those who are wise say,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father only." (Matthew 24:36).

 

[covenantee]

In your opinion. Where does it say that

(a) In scripture; and

(b) in the history of the early church (ECF etc)?

Though you may dig up an opinion of some early Christian author, you won't find it in scripture - because it's not there and is not true.

The historical account of the Judaean Christians' flight is given by Eusebius of Caesarea, acclaimed Father of Church History:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

So you believe that the Judaean Christians ignored Jesus' warning, and remained where they were, and were slaughtered.

Even though Jesus warned those in Judaea to flee, nobody fled.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Jesus

Need a hint?

 

[covenantee]

Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?

See post 185.

 

[rvmb]

See post 185.

Not coming up, please paste it with your response :)

 

[covenantee]

Not coming up, please paste it with your response :)

The historical account of the Judaean Christians' flight is given by Eusebius of Caesarea, acclaimed Father of Church History:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

So you believe that the Judaean Christians ignored Jesus' warning, and remained where they were, and were slaughtered.

Even though Jesus warned those in Judaea to flee, nobody fled.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Jesus

Need a hint?

 

[rvmb]

The historical account of the Judaean Christians' flight is given by Eusebius of Caesarea, acclaimed Father of Church History:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

So you believe that the Judaean Christians ignored Jesus' warning, and remained where they were, and were slaughtered.

Even though Jesus warned those in Judaea to flee, nobody fled.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Jesus

Need a hint?

You claimed :- ""To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.""
I asked >>> ""Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?""
The request is repeated >>>Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?

 

[covenantee]

You claimed :- ""To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.""
I asked >>> ""Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?""
The request is repeated >>>Can you list the verses from the Bible that supports your claim ?

What do you think triggered their flight?

Just for the fun of it?

 

[rvmb]

What do you think triggered their flight?

Just for the fun of it?

I'm simply asking for the verses that supports your claim.
>>>>""To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.""
If you don't have them then say so

 

[Zao is life]

The historical account of the Judaean Christians' flight is given by Eusebius of Caesarea, acclaimed Father of Church History:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

So you believe that the Judaean Christians ignored Jesus' warning, and remained where they were, and were slaughtered.

Even though Jesus warned those in Judaea to flee, nobody fled.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Jesus

Need a hint?

Believing Jesus is definitely not believing you. It's definitely not the same thing.

Hint: Believing you is not believing Jesus.

You even twisted what Eusebius said the church in Jerusalem received by oracle from God so that YOU could go from:

"The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella."

to something Jesus did not say about the abomination of desolation in the holy place "referring to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.":

To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.

They recognized the sign, and fled, and saved their lives.

Believing Jesus is not believing you. It's not the same thing.

 

[claninja]

"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be [G1096 ginomai - come to pass] hereafter [meta tauta G3326 G3777]" (Revelation 1:19).

"After [meta tauta] this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be [G1096 ginomai - come to pass] hereafter [meta]. (Revelation 4:1)

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly [G5035 tachu], and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. (Revelation 2:5)

5034 τάχος tavcos tachos {takh'-os}
from the same as 5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.
see GREEK for 5036

5035 ταχύ tacuv tachu {takh-oo'}
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:--lightly, quickly.
see GREEK for 5036

5036 ταχύς tacuvs tachus {takh-oos'}
of uncertain affinity; fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

"And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily [G5034 tachos]. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:6-8)

How soon is "soon" for Jesus? Does anyone know? Can anyone say?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36).

But some say "I know!" - because I have worked it out by numerology / the biblical Jubilee years / some other way.
And some say "I know!" - because by what is written I have worked out that He has already come.

But those who are wise say,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father only." (Matthew 24:36).

Not knowing the exact day nor hour is not the same as knowing when the time is near. For example, a woman may not know the exact day nor hour of her the birth, but she knows the general time frame of 9 months is to be expected. She may know the time giving birth is literally near at month 8-9 based on signs like birth pangs and contractions, just not sure of exact day nor hour.

Jesus said, “when a fig tree sprouts leaves you know summer is near” then he added to those words: “thus also when you see all these things, you know he is near, right at the door”. - Matthew 24:32-33.

So while the disciples wouldn’t know the exact day nor hour, they would know the time was near, right at the door, if they saw the events of olivet discourse, much like one can know summer is near when fig trees produce leaves, or a mother knows the birth is near with certain signs.

So, again, did the disciples/aposltes, in the NT, claim it was the last hour, that the end of all things had drawn near, that the coming of the Lord was at hand, that the coming of the Lord was in a little and without delay? Did Jesus himself, say decades after the cross say that the time was near?

 

[covenantee]

I'm simply asking for the verses that supports your claim.
>>>>""To the Judaean Christians just prior to 70 AD, it referred to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.""
If you don't have them then say so

Sure.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Believing Jesus is definitely not believing you. It's definitely not the same thing.

Hint: Believing you is not believing Jesus.

You even twisted what Eusebius said the church in Jerusalem received by oracle from God so that YOU could go from:

"The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella."

to something Jesus did not say about the abomination of desolation in the holy place "referring to the Roman armies advancing on the holy city Jerusalem.":



Believing Jesus is not believing you. It's not the same thing.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Neither do you.

If the Judaean Christians did not flee, what is the reason that they did not flee?

Try not to respond with bilge, bunk, or bafflegab.

 

[Zao is life]

Not knowing the exact day nor hour is not the same as knowing when the time is near. For example, a woman may not know the exact day nor hour of her the birth, but she knows the general time frame of 9 months is to be expected. She may know the time giving birth is literally near at month 8-9 based on signs like birth pangs and contractions, just not sure of exact day nor hour.

Jesus said, “when a fig tree sprouts leaves you know summer is near” then he added to those words: “thus also when you see all these things, you know he is near, right at the door”. - Matthew 24:32-33.

So while the disciples wouldn’t know the exact day nor hour, they would know the time was near, right at the door, if they saw the events of olivet discourse, much like one can know summer is near when fig trees produce leaves, or a mother knows the birth is near with certain signs.

So, again, did the disciples/aposltes, in the NT, claim it was the last hour, that the end of all things had drawn near, that the coming of the Lord was at hand, that the coming of the Lord was in a little and without delay? Did Jesus himself, say decades after the cross say that the time was near?

In the Olivet Discourse the only signs Jesus gave His disciples is the tribulation and persecution they would endure - and the sign that the saints in Judea should flee Judea is the abomination of desolation in the New Testament Tabernacle (2 Thessalonians 2:4) which is the antitype of the abomination of desolation that was placed in the temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes

- which did not result in the destruction of the temple. The temple had become defiled, but it was not destroyed, and was cleansed afterward. That abomination of desolation in the temple was also associated with the suspension of the daily sacrifices - not the removal of them.

The abominations that are associated with the removal of the daily sacrifices and the destruction of the temple and the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9:26-27 have nothing to do with an abomination of desolation placed in a holy place.

If you believe that the temple that was destroyed in AD70 was still "the holy place" 40 years after the curtain / veil in it was torn in two when Jesus died, then you will never understand the Olivet Discourse.

Jesus had already told them that the temple in Jerusalem was going to be completely destroyed, with not one stone left upon another - and that was when He was still on the Temple Mount, before departing for the Mount of Olives .

There was nothing else they needed to know. Jesus was not going to tell them when that temple was going to be destroyed just because they asked when it was going to be destroyed, nor did He say anything more about it in the Olivet Discourse. Instead, in His reply He immediately launched into a long discourse telling them about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple will endure and should expect at the end of the age, just before His return - and He never even used the word "temple" again even once in His reply.

Your obsession with the Old Covenant, and the Old Testament temple and the time of its destruction and your faith in the false notion that it was a sign "of the end of the age" has completely blinded you, so that though you read, you neither see nor hear the words of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse.

Your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse has Jesus saying the following things (which He did NOT say):

Matthew 24:8-22
All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem up to be afflicted, and shall kill them: and THEY shall be hated of all nations for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this news of the coming destruction of the temple in Jerusalem shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When the Jews who worship at the temple therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Then let the Jews which be in Judea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem should pray that THEIR flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation for the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the sake of the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, those days shall be shortened.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Luke 21:12-24
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, and persecute the Jews, delivering them up to the Romans, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem.

And it shall turn to the Jews for a testimony. Tell the Jews therefore to settle it in their hearts, not to meditate before what they shall answer: For from the temple in Jerusalem will they be given a mouth and wisdom, which all their adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

And they that worship at the temple in Jerusalem shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of them shall they cause to be put to death.

And they shall be hated of all men for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. But there shall not an hair of their head perish, because in their patience possess those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem their souls.

And tell those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem that when THEY shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then THEY are to know that the desolation thereof is nigh,

so then let the Jews which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

For these be the days of vengeance upon those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto the Jews that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon the people because of those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Beyond the fact that ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT Jesus told His disciples it would be completely destroyed (40 years before it was), any significance - prophetic or other - attached to the temple in Jerusalem following the death of Christ and the tearing of the curtain in that temple, exists only in the false doctrines of those still obsessed with the Old Covenant and its temple beyond its expiry date - WHICH WAS AD30. The tribulation of the living stones of the New Testament Temple - which is the only thing Jesus spoke about in His reply to their question on the Mount of Olives - has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem - and Jesus did not once even use the word "temple" in His reply to their question. He only mentioned armies gathering round JERUSALEM in order that HIS DISCIPLES would know to flee Judea.

 

[covenantee]

In the Olivet Discourse the only signs Jesus gave His disciples is the tribulation and persecution they would endure - and the sign that the saints in Judea should flee Judea is the abomination of desolation in the New Testament Tabernacle (2 Thessalonians 2:4) which is the antitype of the abomination of desolation that was placed in the temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes

- which did not result in the destruction of the temple. The temple had become defiled, but it was not destroyed, and was cleansed afterward. That abomination of desolation in the temple was also associated with the suspension of the daily sacrifices - not the removal of them.

The abominations that are associated with the removal of the daily sacrifices and the destruction of the temple and the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9:26-27 have nothing to do with an abomination of desolation placed in a holy place.

If you believe that the temple that was destroyed in AD70 was still "the holy place" 40 years after the curtain / veil in it was torn in two when Jesus died, then you will never understand the Olivet Discourse.

Jesus had already told them that the temple in Jerusalem was going to be completely destroyed, with not one stone left upon another - and that was when He was still on the Temple Mount, before departing for the Mount of Olives .

There was nothing else they needed to know. Jesus was not going to tell them when that temple was going to be destroyed just because they asked when it was going to be destroyed, nor did He say anything more about it in the Olivet Discourse. Instead, in His reply He immediately launched into a long discourse telling them about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple will endure and should expect at the end of the age, just before His return - and He never even used the word "temple" again even once in His reply.

Your obsession with the Old Covenant, and the Old Testament temple and the time of its destruction and your faith in the false notion that it was a sign "of the end of the age" has completely blinded you, so that though you read, you neither see nor hear the words of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse.

Your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse has Jesus saying the following things (which He did NOT say):

Matthew 24:8-22
All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem up to be afflicted, and shall kill them: and THEY shall be hated of all nations for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this news of the coming destruction of the temple in Jerusalem shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When the Jews who worship at the temple therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Then let the Jews which be in Judea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem should pray that THEIR flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation for the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the sake of the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, those days shall be shortened.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Luke 21:12-24
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, and persecute the Jews, delivering them up to the Romans, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem.

And it shall turn to the Jews for a testimony. Tell the Jews therefore to settle it in their hearts, not to meditate before what they shall answer: For from the temple in Jerusalem will they be given a mouth and wisdom, which all their adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

And they that worship at the temple in Jerusalem shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of them shall they cause to be put to death.

And they shall be hated of all men for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. But there shall not an hair of their head perish, because in their patience possess those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem their souls.

And tell those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem that when THEY shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then THEY are to know that the desolation thereof is nigh,

so then let the Jews which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

For these be the days of vengeance upon those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto the Jews that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon the people because of those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Beyond the fact that ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT Jesus told His disciples it would be completely destroyed (40 years before it was), any significance - prophetic or other - attached to the temple in Jerusalem following the death of Christ and the tearing of the curtain in that temple, exists only in the false doctrines of those still obsessed with the Old Covenant and its temple beyond its expiry date - WHICH WAS AD30. The tribulation of the living stones of the New Testament Temple - which is the only thing Jesus spoke about in His reply to their question on the Mount of Olives - has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem - and Jesus did not once even use the word "temple" in His reply to their question. He only mentioned armies gathering round JERUSALEM in order that HIS DISCIPLES would know to flee Judea.

Are you gnostic?
Because your explanation is gnostic.
The hyperspiritualization of literal truth.
If the temple represented not a literal edifice but rather the saints in Matthew 24, then the temple represents the saints wherever it is referenced.
So you believe:
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the saints of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the saints, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Are you still gnostic?

 

[Zao is life]

Are you gnostic?
Because your explanation is gnostic.
The hyperspiritualization of literal truth.
If the temple represented not a literal edifice but rather the saints in Matthew 24, then the temple represents the saints wherever it is referenced.
So you believe:
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the saints of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the saints, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Are you still gnostic?

It has nothing to do with 'gnosticism' and everything to do with reading comprehension. You need to go back to school because you cannot read who Jesus was talking to in the Olivet Discourse, nor are you able to understand who and what He was talking about.

Your corruption of Jesus's message is clear and complete - the way you call believing in the existence of the living stones of the New Testament Temple whose tribulation Jesus was talking about in His reply to the disciples' questions on the Mount of Olives, "gnosticism". It's ridiculous how much "persecution and tribulation" you have literal stones - of a building made with human hands - "having to endure" 40 years after Christ's death for sins made that building's purpose and function defunct and obsolete.

 

[Zao is life]

So you believe:
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the saints of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the saints, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Are you still gnostic?

Your argument is getting so desperate now. Anyone can see that your false accusation about me having reading comprehension skills about which temple Jesus was in when He did the above, does not detract from my true assessment of your lack of reading comprehension skills regarding which temple's tribulation Jesus was talking about in His reply to the disciples' questions on the Mount of Olives.

In that literal temple where Jesus overturned the tables He also told the scribes and Pharisees that it was going to left to them desolate. Just outside that literal temple Jesus repeated what He has said to His disciples, this time making it abundantly clear by telling them that not one of those literal stones of that literal temple would be left on top of another.

Your lack of reading comprehension skills has you believing that Jesus was talking to and about the tribulation that those same literal stones were going to endure and about that same literal temple in His reply to the disciples' questions on the Mount of Olives.

 

[claninja]

In the Olivet Discourse the only signs Jesus gave His disciples is the tribulation and persecution they would endure - and the sign that the saints in Judea should flee Judea is the abomination of desolation in the New Testament Tabernacle (2 Thessalonians 2:4) which is the antitype of the abomination of desolation that was placed in the temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes

- which did not result in the destruction of the temple. The temple had become defiled, but it was not destroyed, and was cleansed afterward. That abomination of desolation in the temple was also associated with the suspension of the daily sacrifices - not the removal of them.

The abominations that are associated with the removal of the daily sacrifices and the destruction of the temple and the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9:26-27 have nothing to do with an abomination of desolation placed in a holy place.

If you believe that the temple that was destroyed in AD70 was still "the holy place" 40 years after the curtain / veil in it was torn in two when Jesus died, then you will never understand the Olivet Discourse.

Jesus had already told them that the temple in Jerusalem was going to be completely destroyed, with not one stone left upon another - and that was when He was still on the Temple Mount, before departing for the Mount of Olives .

There was nothing else they needed to know. Jesus was not going to tell them when that temple was going to be destroyed just because they asked when it was going to be destroyed, nor did He say anything more about it in the Olivet Discourse. Instead, in His reply He immediately launched into a long discourse telling them about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple will endure and should expect at the end of the age, just before His return - and He never even used the word "temple" again even once in His reply.

Your obsession with the Old Covenant, and the Old Testament temple and the time of its destruction and your faith in the false notion that it was a sign "of the end of the age" has completely blinded you, so that though you read, you neither see nor hear the words of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse.

Your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse has Jesus saying the following things (which He did NOT say):

Matthew 24:8-22
All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem up to be afflicted, and shall kill them: and THEY shall be hated of all nations for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this news of the coming destruction of the temple in Jerusalem shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When the Jews who worship at the temple therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Then let the Jews which be in Judea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem should pray that THEIR flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation for the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the sake of the Jews who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, those days shall be shortened.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Luke 21:12-24
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem, and persecute the Jews, delivering them up to the Romans, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem.

And it shall turn to the Jews for a testimony. Tell the Jews therefore to settle it in their hearts, not to meditate before what they shall answer: For from the temple in Jerusalem will they be given a mouth and wisdom, which all their adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

And they that worship at the temple in Jerusalem shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of them shall they cause to be put to death.

And they shall be hated of all men for the sake of the temple in Jerusalem. But there shall not an hair of their head perish, because in their patience possess those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem their souls.

And tell those who worship at the temple in Jerusalem that when THEY shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then THEY are to know that the desolation thereof is nigh,

so then let the Jews which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

For these be the days of vengeance upon those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto the Jews that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon the people because of those who do not worship at the temple in Jerusalem.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Note: The above is implied by your false doctrine about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus did not say anything about the temple in Jerusalem. He spoke only about the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure for His name's sake.

Beyond the fact that ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT Jesus told His disciples it would be completely destroyed (40 years before it was), any significance - prophetic or other - attached to the temple in Jerusalem following the death of Christ and the tearing of the curtain in that temple, exists only in the false doctrines of those still obsessed with the Old Covenant and its temple beyond its expiry date - WHICH WAS AD30. The tribulation of the living stones of the New Testament Temple - which is the only thing Jesus spoke about in His reply to their question on the Mount of Olives - has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem - and Jesus did not once even use the word "temple" in His reply to their question. He only mentioned armies gathering round JERUSALEM in order that HIS DISCIPLES would know to flee Judea.

Your long winded, convoluted, and ad hominem response doesn’t address my point at all.

1.) did Jesus tell the disciples, they “would know” it was near, right at the door, when they saw the events of the Olivet discourse, like how they knew summer was near when the fig tree sprouted leaves?

2.) Did the disciples throughout the NT state the end off all things was near, it was the last hour, the coming of the lord was near, the coming was in a little while and without delay, etc…?

 

[Zao is life]

So while the disciples wouldn’t know the exact day nor hour, they would know the time was near, right at the door, if they saw the events of olivet discourse

It's good that you should say so, because Jesus spoke about the destruction of the literal temple twice while He was on the Temple Mount, the second time saying that the literal stones of the literal Jerusalem temple would not be left one on top of another.

When on the Mount of Olives Jesus immediately launched into a long discourse about the tribulation and persecution His disciples were to experience in His response to the disciples' questions on the Mount of Olives, was He talking about the "tribulation and persecution" that the literal stones of the literal temple were going endure which on the Temple Mount He had twice said was going to be destroyed?