This is the context of how Dan. 9:24-27 should be considered!

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covenantee

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How was the last day of the 69th week AFTER the 69th week? The text says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week, not on the last day of the 69th week. You are blatantly twisting scripture to fit your doctrine.


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Impossible! Only Christ can, and did, accomplish those things! This is blasphemy!
Yes, a blatant manifestation of nothing other than the worship of antichrist.

I'm long convinced that there is a special compartment in hell reserved for dispensatanism.

Because it has the Word, but insists on contorting it into an abomination of desecration.

It will experience the same fate as those of Christ's day.

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
 
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Trekson

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Just read this carefully - because you've never heard anything like this before:

Paul stated that the regeneration of the entire creation awaits the resurrection of the sons of God. Besides this, there is plenty in the Revelation and the New Testament that connects the commencement of the new heavens and new earth to the time immediately following the casting of the beast and false prophet alive into the lake of fire.

But there is also plenty that connects the commencement of the thousand years at the same time.


You need to replace the words forever and ever that you see more than once in the New Testament and in the Revelation with the more accurate phrase to the ages of the ages (which is what the Greek says).

Christ will begin to reign to the ages of the ages when the 7th trumpet sounds (it says so). That's when the ages of the ages begins.

The last three chapters of the Bible mirror the first three.

First three chapters: Beginning of time: God's creation (Genesis 1:1-31).
Last three chapters: Christ makes all things new (Revelation 21:5).

First three chapters: Perfectly good (Genesis 1:31).
Last three chapters: Only righteousness dwells in it (Revelation 21:27).

First three chapters: Tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 16-17).
Last three chapters: Tree of life (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:1-2, 14, 17).

First three chapters: Adam given dominion (Genesis 1:26-28).
Last three chapters: The dominion of the last Adam (Revelation 20:4 - also see Revelation 3:21).

First three chapters: Satan's deception - even during the sabbath that began when God rested from His works of creation.
Last three chapters: Satan's final deception at the close of the thousand years.

First result: God prevented Adam and Eve from eating from the tree of life and living forever in that sinful state. Jesus would come and die for our sins, and rise again from the dead. He is the resurrection and the life. He is our life. Eternal life is in Christ.

Final result: "And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages." (Revelation 20:7-10).

In Mark 9:44 Jesus refers to gehennah as a place "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The beast and false prophet were already cast alive into the lake of fire - and what Jesus said about gehennah was a general first-century Jewish belief - we know this because in his discourse to the Greeks concerning hades, Josephus says the exact same thing, saying that:

"In hades there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, whereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon men."

Josephus wrote that this region "is the destiny of the unjust", to whom he writes "belong the unquenchable fire, and that without end, and a certain fiery worm, never dying, and not destroying the body, but continuing its eruption out of the body with never-ceasing grief."

The thousand years and the New Heavens and New Earth - the ages of the ages - will both commence when Christ has returned, at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. There will be no mortals in it. The rebels you read about at the close of the thousand years in Revelation 20 are those who belonged to Christ when He returned and were raised to life

- but like Adam and Eve, they will rebel against the Word of God and commandment of God when Satan is released at the close of the millennium. Fire will come down from God and devour them and they will be alive forever experiencing gehennah - "where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched".

"Fear not them which kill the body [soma], but are not able to kill the soul [psuche]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul [psuche] and body [soma] in gehennah [G1067 geenna]." (Matthew 10:28).

Revelation 20:1-10 are parenthetic verses - the chapter divisions were only inserted into scripture in 1227 AD, in the wrong place in some chapters (and the verses were only added even later).

The Day of judgment mentioned at the close of (what since 1227 AD has been) Revelation "chapter 20" will have already occurred when - as Jesus said - death and hades will deliver the dead to be judged by Him - at the time of His return.

There is only one day of judgment mentioned in scripture when all the dead will be raised - when Christ returns -
and Paul stated that the resurrection will fulfill the prophecy "death has been swallowed up in victory". There will be no more death. When Christ returns there will be a resurrection - either unto life, or unto condemnation.

There will be no mortals rebelling at the close of the millennium. They will be immortals
- just as Adam and Eve were before they were prevented from eating of the tree of life and living forever in that fallen sinful state - but the rebels of Revelation 20:9 will not die. They will be judged by fire and remain alive forever in a state which is a.k.a 'gehennah', "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The last three chapters of the Bible mirror the first three chapters - and there are only certain saints who scripture says will reign with Christ - over all the other resurrected, immortal saints - for a thousand years. The 2nd death will have no authority over them. The lake of fire and the 2nd death are the same.
Sorry dude, but that is insane. No resurrected in Christ will ever rebel against Christ (and die again!!!) and the amount of living people after the millennium will probably be close to what the earth has now.
 

Zao is life

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Yes, a blatant manifestation of nothing other than the worship of antichrist.

I'm long convinced that there is a special compartment in hell reserved for dispensatanism.

Because it has the Word, but insists on contorting it

Yes it contorts the Word - but in a different way to how Preterism and Partial Preterism does.

The theology of those who contort the Word so they can hold the Old Covenant to have lasted until 70 AD also has a special compartment in hell reserved for it.

Or is it the hypoctrites themselves who condemn other Christians for twisting the Word yet do the same who have a special place in hell reserved for them - such as the Preterists and Partial Preterists - who likewise fail to understand because of willful ignorance of parts of scripture and contortion of the Word?

The same goes for those who blatantly and knowingly lie about what others say and are underhanded (like when they knowingly and deliberately misrepresent the saints in various ways, the way you do). Are your ilk in your opinion also in danger of a special place in hell - more so than those whose views are based on a contortion of scripture through deliberate ignorance of facts, etc?
 
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Trekson

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Matthew 24 and Luke 21 both refer to Christ warning, and to the Judaean Christians fleeing.

And history confirms that they fled.

So the only way that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are not the same is by futurized fantasy and fallacy.

No other way.

Posttribbers have the witness of both Scripture, and of history which confirms Scripture.

You don't.
Well, in a way you're right but history only confirms Lk. 21:20, 22, 24. These three verses aren't similar to anything else in the other two gospel accounts. The AoD never happened in 70ad. Do you believe Matt. 23:39 occurred in 70ad as well? "For I say unto you, Ye (Israel) shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." This will be a 2nd actual triumphal entry (a phrase never actually used in the bible) different from the type we are shown in Matt. 21. When this actually occurs, it will be the fulfillment of Israel's 4th goal of Dan. 9:24, of "bringing in everlasting righteousness."
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Well, in a way you're right but history only confirms Lk. 21:20, 22, 24. These three verses aren't similar to anything else in the other two gospel accounts. The AoD never happened in 70ad. Do you believe Matt. 23:39 occurred in 70ad as well? "For I say unto you, Ye (Israel) shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." This will be a 2nd actual triumphal entry (a phrase never actually used in the bible) different from the type we are shown in Matt. 21. When this actually occurs, it will be the fulfillment of Israel's 4th goal of Dan. 9:24, of "bringing in everlasting righteousness."
A 2nd triumphal entry is not taught anywhere in the Bible. You just make things up. Matthew 23:39 has to do with the fact that everyone, including unrepentant Jews, will one day bow before Christ and confess that He is Lord. Those unrepentant Jews He was talking to in that verse will not see Him again until the time when they do that. But, they will do so out of shame for not having repented when they had the chance. Jesus was saying that the unrepentant Jews He was talking to would not see Him again until a time when they acknowledge who He is. He wasn't talking about the Jews in general there, not about Jews in the distant future. Those people have been dead for a long time. So, the only time they will get a chance to do that at this point is when they see Him again when appearing before Him to be judged.
 
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covenantee

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Yes it contorts the Word - but in a different way to how Preterism and Partial Preterism does.

The theology of those who contort the Word so they can hold the Old Covenant to have lasted until 70 AD also has a special compartment in hell reserved for it.

Or is it the hypoctrites themselves who condemn other Christians for twisting the Word yet do the same who have a special place in hell reserved for them - such as the Preterists and Partial Preterists - who likewise fail to understand because of willful ignorance of parts of scripture and contortion of the Word?

The same goes for those who blatantly and knowingly lie about what others say and are underhanded (like when they knowingly and deliberately misrepresent the saints in various ways, the way you do). Are your ilk in your opinion also in danger of a special place in hell - more so than those whose views are based on a contortion of scripture through deliberate ignorance of facts, etc?
Are you finished your whining?

I'm not responsible for your inability to comprehend Scripture and English.

And having an opinion which differs from yours, and is grounded in historical orthodox Christianity, is not blatant, underhanded, lie, etc,

So peddle your faux sanctimony somewhere else.

We're sick of it.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Are you finished your whining?

I'm not responsible for your inability to comprehend Scripture and English.

And having an opinion which differs from yours, and is grounded in historical orthodox Christianity, is not blatant, underhanded, lie, etc,

So peddle your faux sanctimony somewhere else.

We're sick of it.
He put you in the same group as those who believe the old covenant ended in 70 AD, which I'm pretty sure you do not believe and you instead understand that it was made obsolete by Jesus when He died on the cross to establish the new covenant. He doesn't take the time to find out what each person actually believes and just makes assumptions.
 
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covenantee

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Well, in a way you're right but history only confirms Lk. 21:20, 22, 24.
Provide a link to your source for this nonsense. :laughing:

You said previously that the Judaean Christians had fled circa 70 AD, which means Luke 21:21 is history.

So you've changed your mind?
 

covenantee

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He put you in the same group as those who believe the old covenant ended in 70 AD, which I'm pretty sure you do not believe and you instead understand that it was made obsolete by Jesus when He did on the cross to establish the new covenant. He doesn't take the time to find out what each person actually believes and just makes assumptions.
Amen bro.
 

Earburner

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How sad and unfortunate that no one agrees with that which the Holy Spirit teaches from the NT. about Dan. 9:24-27.
Please see post# 240
 

Spiritual Israelite

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How sad and unfortunate that no one agrees with that which the Holy Spirit teaches from the NT. about Dan. 9:24-27.
Please see post# 240
How are you coming to that conclusion when I, and others, have often cited the NT to support our understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, which is similar to yours?
 

claninja

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And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?" (Mark 13:3-4).

Circa AD 44: James, son of Zebedee: Beheaded by sword in Jerusalem by Herod Agrippa.
Circa AD 60: Andrew, brother of Peter: Crucified on x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece.
Circa AD 62: James, son of Alphaeus: Crucified in Ostakrine, Egypt.
Circa AD 62: James the Just: Thrown from the Temple pinnacle, then stoned and clubbed to death.
Between AD 64 and AD 67, but before AD68: Paul beheaded by sword in Rome.
Between AD 64 and AD 68: but before AD69: Peter crucified upside-down in Rome.

So Peter, James, and Andrew were not alive anymore by the time armies gathered around Jerusalem.

Although not what I asked about, yes, Jesus talked to the four disciples “in private”. This strengthens the case that, grammatically, all the 2nd personal pronouns of “you” throughout the discourse refer to them.

Thus, the “you” in “when YOU see all these things then YOU know it is near”, grammatically refers to the disciples Jesus told this privately to : Peter, James, Andrew, and John. Those 4 disciples are the antecedent to “you” in the olivet discourse (in mark).

Circa AD 44: James, son of Zebedee: Beheaded by sword in Jerusalem by Herod Agrippa.
Circa AD 60: Andrew, brother of Peter: Crucified on x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece.
Circa AD 62: James, son of Alphaeus: Crucified in Ostakrine, Egypt.
Circa AD 62: James the Just: Thrown from the Temple pinnacle, then stoned and clubbed to death.
Between AD 64 and AD 67, but before AD68: Paul beheaded by sword in Rome.
Between AD 64 and AD 68: but before AD69: Peter crucified upside-down in Rome.

So Peter, James, and Andrew were not alive anymore by the time armies gathered around Jerusalem.

Right, Jesus said some of them would die in Matthew 24:9 via persecution. But the Jewish Roman war started around 66ad. Cestius Gallus, with Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem in 66 ad. James son of zebedee likely died before this, Andrew, may died before but also may have died during. Peter likely died at the start of the war. John died after the war. So potentially 3 out 4 of those disciples lived to Jerusalem being surrounded.

But I’m not sure what their deaths have to do with anything, especially since they are based on tradition not necessarily fact.
Regardless of the timing of their deaths, they still claimed the coming of the Lord had drawn near, the coming was in a little while, without delay, the end of all things had drawn near, and it was the last hour.

How could they claim it was “near”? Jesus said they would know it was near when they saw the events of the Olivet discourse.

we need to understand that what they said is within the boundaries of Jesus stating that of that day and hour knoweth no man.

The authors of the new testament never claim the day nor hour. They only claimed it was near.

Not knowing the day nor hour is not the same as not knowing the general time frame. A pregnant woman doesn’t know the day nor hour when the birth will occur, only the general time frame of 9 months. Your argument about the day nor hour is a moot point in regards to what I am talking about.

BECAUSE THE COMING OF THE LORD HAS BEEN NEAR SINCE THE LAST DAYS BEGAN.

Incorrect, it is only near when the events of the Olivet discourse happen:

“So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near,f right at the door.”
 
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Trekson

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Provide a link to your source for this nonsense. :laughing:

You said previously that the Judaean Christians had fled circa 70 AD, which means Luke 21:21 is history.

So you've changed your mind?
Nope, but biblical history proves that history usually repeats it self. These can be called either "near and far" fulfillments, or a 'type" which is an event that mimics what the actual fulfillment would like. One good example is Antiochus setting up the image of Zeus in the temple, is a 'type" for the real fulfillment when the AoD will be set up by the FP in Rev. 13:14-15.
 

Earburner

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How are you coming to that conclusion when I, and others, have often cited the NT to support our understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, which is similar to yours?
Sorry, just an over sight on my part. Except for @covenantee, I was thinking I was being over looked in what was being said in the body of the
discussion.
 
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covenantee

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Nope, but biblical history proves that history usually repeats it self. These can be called either "near and far" fulfillments, or a 'type" which is an event that mimics what the actual fulfillment would like. One good example is Antiochus setting up the image of Zeus in the temple, is a 'type" for the real fulfillment when the AoD will be set up by the FP in Rev. 13:14-15.
Luke 21:21 is fulfilled history. No amount of desperate denial can change that.
 
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MonoBiblical

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It my opinion that the AoD was Herod getting struck with sudden words was what predicted Daniel scroll before it was altered.