Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos......on the subject of holiness, I'm sure you must have read and looked into other Christian writers/preachers of the past on the subject over the years......I want to ask you, which ones would you recommend? (And feel free to mention, if you want, if you have any points of disagreement with any of them.)

My go to's are the ancient prophets...including Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel...Hosea...etc. And also the words of Jesus, Peter Paul and James...not an exhaustive list. I haven't read any other books on the faith for many decades. I remember reading "The torch of the testimony", a number of Watchman Nee books and maybe a book by Finney. I TRIED reading some others but stopped after a few pages.

What I find in most writers is a lack of a framework into which to put every verse in the bible in the right context That has been my own life's work...based on my experience with God, prophetic revelation and diligent study of the word by the Holy Spirit's guidance. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Episkopos]

Ah, I see.....you believe that a nominal belief is the first level of salvation. First time I heard you say that out loud. Whereas Jesus said one must be born of the spirit to both see and enter the kingdom of God. That is the gospel......it is the gospel of the kingdom.

A typical strawman that shows an amazing ability to miss the point. I said...apart from regeneration. I have dealt with MANY conversions and much discipleship. I don't think you know what you're talking about...unless you have found a way to personally regenerate people by the Spirit. I follow the Lord and wait on Him...I don't just spew out doctrinal platitudes and then condemn anyone that doesn't have the same lingo.

 

[Lizbeth]

A typical strawman that shows an amazing ability to miss the point. I said...apart from regeneration. I have dealt with MANY conversions and much discipleship. I don't think you know what you're talking about...unless you have found a way to personally regenerate people by the Spirit. I follow the Lord and wait on Him...I don't just spew out doctrinal platitudes and then condemn anyone that doesn't have the same lingo.

You are always quick to accuse. If there is a miscommunication or misunderstanding here please feel free to clarify. This is what you wrote:

<<< The first level of salvation (for anyone off the street) apart from regeneration, is to turn (repent) from evil and fear God and do His commandments...so then going from being wicked to righteousness, learning humility and thankfulness to Christ who loves us and gave Himself for us, so that we turn from our own ways to the way that can save us. >>>

By these words you seem to regard nominal belief as the first level of salvation, (which I assume must be why you consider Catholics to be our brothers and sisters in the faith as you stated elsewhere) and even go on to ascribe to nominal believers things that are characteristic of regenerated believers. A nominal believer can't have such things as thankfulness to Christ for instance, without first having revelation of what to be thankful for (revelation of the gospel and of Christ), in other words without first being saved by the Holy Spirit. Nominal belief is not salvation on any level.....they only know about Jesus, and have a head belief but haven't met Him personally. Like the Jews under the old covenant......who still needed the gospel to be saved......one must be begotten/born of the Spirit to be saved. But if there is a miscommunication on your part or a misunderstanding on my part with what you said above, please clarify.

Nominal intellectual belief can even get in the way of true conversion by the Holy Spirit.......because they think (and are taught) that they are saved in their present condition....as long as they perform the prescribed rites and rituals and attend the right church on prescribed days.

I often see you seeming to conflate or equate born again regenerated believers with nominal., as though we are the same. But if someone is born again/regenerated they should know the difference between just hearing about the Lord and actually knowing and receiving Him by Spirit to spirit revelation.. I once was a nominal believer, growing up a Catholic, then became agnostic for a time until the Lord got hold of me and saved me with faith not of my own....and I knew/discerned at the time it was not of my own....that God had given me a miracle to to truly believe and truly know Him. (Hence my thankfulness.) So I know the difference.

 

[Lizbeth]

My go to's are the ancient prophets...including Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel...Hosea...etc. And also the words of Jesus, Peter Paul and James...not an exhaustive list. I haven't read any other books on the faith for many decades. I remember reading "The torch of the testimony", a number of Watchman Nee books and maybe a book by Finney. I TRIED reading some others but stopped after a few pages.

What I find in most writers is a lack of a framework into which to put every verse in the bible in the right context That has been my own life's work...based on my experience with God, prophetic revelation and diligent study of the word by the Holy Spirit's guidance. The proof is in the pudding.

Yes, the bible should be our first go-to and it is mine also. But then I hungered to find other witnesses of this and for confirmation.....let every truth be established by two or three witnesses. I've read some Watchman Nee, as I have mentioned to you before, but find him too wordy for me because I have trouble concentrating in recent years. I've been reading Oswald Chambers little book, My Utmost for His Highest, and find his writing encouraging, and in such a way that doesn't threaten or beat anybody over the head with it. No one can come to Christ except the Father draw them.....think that applies on more than one level, and I'm certainly one who needs that.

I wonder if it is the carnal mind that seeks a framework to make logical sense, when what we need is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Laurina]

@Episkopos......on the subject of holiness, I'm sure you must have read and looked into other Christian writers/preachers of the past on the subject over the years......I want to ask you, which ones would you recommend? (And feel free to mention, if you want, if you have any points of disagreement with any of them.)

Lizbeth, I would point you to the "Autobiography of Madam Guyon", who became a saint.

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth, I would point you to the "Autobiography of Madam Guyon", who became a saint.

Thank you Laurina, I will look into her.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Though I believe God does lead us through the wilderness

Really? You think God leads people to turn away from walking with Him and leads them to follow satan?

Weird. He never lead me to do anything like that.

I must be special to the Lord because He's always led me to abide in Him and walk in agreement with Him and warned me against going astray.

@Episkopos......on the subject of holiness, I'm sure you must have read and looked into other Christian writers/preachers of the past on the subject over the years......I want to ask you, which ones would you recommend?

Now WHY would anyone waste their time reading what others people thought they think God says?

Why not just go right to the source and read what God actually said in His Own Word believing the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of your understanding so you grow spiritually in agreement with the Word of the Lord?

Reading all these so called "great" men of God just leads to deception. The vast majority of these guys teach false doctrine leading to all these denominations being formed which happens when people start listening to the devil's fake religious teaches about the Lord which are lies and misinformation.

The source of Truth is what God says in His Word.

Those following popular "pastors" and "teachers" in these end times are being deceived by doctrines of demons who are smart enough to put some good teaching in so they can tuck in the false doctrine among the good. It's what the devil did with Adam and Eve and he's still doing the same thing today.

Lizbeth, I would point you to the "Autobiography of Madam Guyon", who became a saint.

Catholic mysticism is false doctrine and not even close to being biblical which is what this lady was in to in addition to trying to convert protestants back to the catholic so called church.

Thank you Laurina, I will look into her.

You thinking off converting to being catholic and following the dark teachings of catholic mysticism?

 

[Lizbeth]

Really? You think God leads people to turn away from walking with Him and leads them to follow satan?

Weird. He never lead me to do anything like that.

I must be special to the Lord because He's always led me to abide in Him and walk in agreement with Him and warned me against going astray.




Now WHY would anyone waste their time reading what others people thought they think God says?

Why not just go right to the source and read what God actually said in His Own Word believing the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of your understanding so you grow spiritually in agreement with the Word of the Lord?

Reading all these so called "great" men of God just leads to deception. The vast majority of these guys teach false doctrine leading to all these denominations being formed which happens when people start listening to the devil's fake religious teaches about the Lord which are lies and misinformation.

The source of Truth is what God says in His Word.

Those following popular "pastors" and "teachers" in these end times are being deceived by doctrines of demons who are smart enough to put some good teaching in so they can tuck in the false doctrine among the good. It's what the devil did with Adam and Eve and he's still doing the same thing today.




Catholic mysticism is false doctrine and not even close to being biblical which is what this lady was in to in addition to trying to convert protestants back to the catholic so called church.




You thinking off converting to being catholic and following the dark teachings of catholic mysticism?

I believe we follow the same pattern as our "ensample" Israel......after saving them out of Egypt and parting the Red Sea for them, it was the Lord leading them through the wilderness to cross the Jordan into the Land of Promise and rest......scripture calls them "the church in the wilderness". At the very least, having been brought out of the world into the kingdom, we are journeying through the wilderness of this life wouldn't you say?.....journeying on our way to our final destination, running to win the prize of our upward call in Christ. And I believe it is also a picture of a deeper consecration that is possible in this life.

I had heard of Madame Guyon a long time ago, but didn't know anything about her.

What I've read of her this morning so far is a bit concerning...I would like to ask @Laurina and @Episkopos if they can account for how someone who is one with God wouldn't have discernment to know that Catholicism is false and dangerous...?

I'm not against spiritual experiences at all, on the contrary I welcome such.....when they are truly given by God and are of His Spirit. We are not to quench the Holy Spirit. But there are good reasons why we need to test all things and test the spirits.......the devil can come with a counterfeit to deceive and make a foothold.....Buddhists and Hindus have spiritual experiences as well, which are not of God. Something can feel so right....but not be.

Contemplative prayer that I have come across is strongly associated with dangerously false movements. Biblical meditation is not emptying the mind, but rather filling it with God's word and meditating on it....ie, mulling it over, chewing on it, prayerfully.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I believe we follow the same pattern as our "ensample" Israel

Well feel free to rebel and reject the Lord and suffer for it.

That's not what I've been called to. I've been predestined to be in the image of Jesus Christ and He never rebelled against the Father or turned away from Him so Jesus is the model I've been called by the Lord to follow.

To each their own spirit as they say. The Spirit leading me never has and never will lead me to turn away or rebel against the Lord.

scripture calls them "the church in the wilderness"

That has nothing to do with the Body of Christ and those of us who have been born again.

We we get born again we are transferred from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son (Colossians 1:13) so we don't go through the same experience as the ancient Israelites since we are under the New Covenant which is based on better promises.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Biblical meditation is not emptying the mind, but rather filling it with God's word and meditating on it

Unless of course one is catholic in which case they fill their heads with false catholic doctrine and meditate on that.

 

[Lizbeth]

Well feel free to rebel and reject the Lord and suffer for it.

That's not what I've been called to. I've been predestined to be in the image of Jesus Christ and He never rebelled against the Father or turned away from Him so Jesus is the model I've been called by the Lord to follow.

To each their own spirit as they say. The Spirit leading me never has and never will lead me to turn away or rebel against the Lord.




That has nothing to do with the Body of Christ and those of us who have been born again.

We we get born again we are transferred from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son (Colossians 1:13) so we don't go through the same experience as the ancient Israelites since we are under the New Covenant which is based on better promises.

Following the Lord (cloud and pillar of fire) is rebellion...?....On the contrary, that is obedience. Jesus Himself was driven by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted..........He is our forerunner and we all undergo the proving of our faith in this life. That is the wilderness journey......tested and tried, refined in the fire.....the fellowship of His sufferings.

It is not the same experience as the Israelites...........it is only the same pattern, as their journey was only an allegory or living parable for ours.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Following the Lord (cloud and pillar of fire) is rebellion...?....On the contrary, that is obedience. Jesus Himself was driven by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted..........He is our forerunner and we all undergo the proving of our faith in this life. That is the wilderness journey......tested and tried, refined in the fire.....the fellowship of His sufferings.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(or woman in your case)

You can live under the old covenant if you want, I'll be over here under the New Covenant.

The Israelites ended up in the wilderness due to not being obedient to the Lord and God had to leave them out there until the older rebellious generation died off so He could work with the younger generation that wanted to cooperate with the Lord.

Jesus situation was different in that He had to succeed where Adam had failed as in being tempted by satan to turn away from the Lord and then choosing to NOT turn away which demonstrated He was perfect and sinless so when He was crucified the devil had no claim of sin against Him as he legitimately did against Adam since Adam did in fact sin.

You are not Jesus so God is not leading you in to temptation and the only way you would be out in the wilderness as a New Covenant believer would be if you backslid and turned away from walking with the Lord and were no longer abiding in Christ and were living after the flesh which is satan's territory.

So if you'd like to go living in sin and hang out in the wilderness then go right ahead. It ends badly.

Then there is the deception satan is running on many about how being in the wilderness is such a "blessing" (which you fell for apparently) which is the devil tricking people in to allowing devils to come in to their lives and reek havoc and cause hard times for no reason other than satan enjoys tricking people in to laying down and allowing him to walk all over Christians.

The devil accomplishes this by getting people to believe they are like old testament people which is an easy scam for him to pull on those that don't understand the New Covenant and the better promises therein.

 

[Laurina]

I had heard of Madame Guyon a long time ago, but didn't know anything about her.

What I've read of her this morning so far is a bit concerning...I would like to ask @Laurina and @Episkopos if they can account for how someone who is one with God wouldn't have discernment to know that Catholicism is false and dangerous...?

Hi Lizbeth, ALL man-made institutions/systems fall short of the glory of God. All -isms are/can be "false and dangerous".

Having said that, God is greater than ALL the "labels/-isms" mankind comes up with.

I can account for having read Madame Guyon's autobiography many times over because it is very inspirational...how she whole-heartedly followed and loved God, even when that "ism" she came through persecuted and imprisoned her.

I believe that it's not about where we begin from, it's about where we end up...and the story is our journey. Everyone has a story.

Would you think that reading a murderer's story is dangerous? Yet, his story is over half of the New Testament. So, Madame Guyon's crime is having been Catholic?? God didn't think so.

I see you have certain "barriers/road blocks"... not judging, just observing. My motto is, "judge not lest you be judged."

Peace, Laurina

 

[Lizbeth]

Hi Lizbeth, ALL man-made institutions/systems fall short of the glory of God. All -isms are/can be "false and dangerous".

Having said that, God is greater than ALL the "labels/-isms" mankind comes up with.

I can account for having read Madame Guyon's autobiography many times over because it is very inspirational...how she whole-heartedly followed and loved God, even when that "ism" she came through persecuted and imprisoned her.

I believe that it's not about where we begin from, it's about where we end up...and the story is our journey. Everyone has a story.

Would you think that reading a murderer's story is dangerous? Yet, his story is over half of the New Testament. So, Madame Guyon's crime is having been Catholic?? God didn't think so.

I see you have certain "barriers/road blocks"... not judging, just observing. My motto is, "judge not lest you be judged."

Peace, Laurina

Thank you for coming back and responding to my post, but it doesn't answer my question at all. How could someone who is one with God still be under a deception? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you for coming back and responding to my post, but it doesn't answer my question at all. How could someone who is one with God still be under a deception? That doesn't make sense to me.

it do when you realize that many are now a new age inclusivian .
Many actually Believe that ALL religoins hear from GOD sister .
I will go examine this MADAM GUYON . And i just bet i wont be suprised to see a new age inclusivism ALL over her .
BUT since i dont know this , I will go and examine .
YOU ALSO MIGHT wanna start asking these people what kinda beleifs they really DO HAVE
concerning salvation and JUST WHO can attain it . Cause inclisivism IS ALL over the place . A LIE THAT IS TOO SISTER .
but it will help to merge ALL the religions with christendom and all will b eleive they do serve the same God .
OH THEY DO and THEY WILL but it AINT GOD sister . its another god who came in its own name .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you for coming back and responding to my post, but it doesn't answer my question at all. How could someone who is one with God still be under a deception? That doesn't make sense to me.

MY GOODNESS SISTER its the divine within new age stuff .
screamed loud alarm bells . New age aint new , mytisicm is not new .
People flock to junk like this . They christainize many things sister .
Madam Guyon . BAD NEWS . but as usual it dont suprise me one bit sister . those preaching the actual
DIRE need to repent and BLEIEVE ON JESUS , well lets just say that message was called dogmatic religois mumbo .
This does not even suprise me that some would heed this madam GUYON stuff .
They all wrapped up
with the knowledge of the wrong tree and
it always do exalt the ego . YET THEY think we are full of EGO . WELL I POINT TO THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
I dont preach Lets put the horse in the cart cause we can PULL it ourselves .

 

[Laurina]

Thank you for coming back and responding to my post, but it doesn't answer my question at all. How could someone who is one with God still be under a deception? That doesn't make sense to me.

If you read her book, your question would be answered.
And what makes you think that her "deception" (your words) is greater than your own??
We all have a starting point...she was brought up in a Catholic home...that's all she knew...and her whole-hearted seeking after God, was answered by Him, and He trained her, and weaned her until she ONLY trusted Him and what He provided for her. God seems to be less picky than you regarding the human religious afflications of those who seek Him and find Him. She was rejected, afflicted and imprisoned by some who had authority over her according to their religious Catholic stucture, but she sought God and He provided for her, used her, and trained her. If God didn't have a problem with her, why would you??
The fact that she called herself Catholic, makes you disbelieve that she could be one with God?!?! Perhaps this is your stumbling block?? Judge not, lest you be judged. IF you could love God like her, and give ALL like she did, you'd do it as a what??? Evangelical?? Baptist?? What title/label would you have?? Stop being hung up by labels!! God looks at the heart...what are you looking at?? If you don't read her autobiography, that's your loss.

 

[Lizbeth]

If you read her book, your question would be answered.

I assumed you and Episkopos have read her book and could answer that one question I have to begin with......... but instead of simply answering it, you chose to take up two posts to scold me for asking it.

And what makes you think that her "deception" (your words) is greater than your own??

I'm not claiming to be one with God (in the same sense that she apparently claimed to be). I would have thought someone who had attained a state of Christian perfection/holiness in this life would be delivered out of and cleansed of all falsehoods, whatever they happened to be, and be led by the Holy Spirit to COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE in accordance with His command in both old and new testament scripture.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The fact that she called herself Catholic, makes you disbelieve that she could be one with God?!?!

Catholics follow religious teachings that did not come from the Lord, so they actually follow doctrines of demons.

Such as praying to and worshiping Mary which is idolatry and they continue in their sins ongoing which is why they are not forgiven. One must turn away from their sin and confess their sin to the Lord to be forgiven (see: Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9)

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The Lord teaches in His Word that we are to pray to the Father (that's God THE Father, not some catholic priest) directly - see John 16:23, Luke 11:1-13, Matthew 6:9-13, John 15:16, John 16:23-24, 1 Peter 1:17, Hebrews 7:25, John 14:6

The Lord never taught anybody to pray to mary and ask her to pray to God in their behalf.

That's a doctrine of demons because the devil is the one teaching this stuff. It's NOT the Doctrine of Christ and those not walking in the Doctrine of Christ are not in right standing with the Lord:

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

you chose to take up two posts to scold me for asking it.

To those that follow catholic doctrine, in their minds you are in error for questioning anything catholics teach.
That's what they do.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I assumed you and Episkopos have read her book

Episkopos says he is a student of God's Word so surely he's not out reading book by false teachers.