Answering Twelve Challenges to Universalism
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
the reason many do not trust the bible is due to within such pages are written things THEY DO NOT DESIRE TO BELEIVE .
SO in order to believe THEY STILL SERVE GOD , CHRIST ,
they need to sit under men and entertain twisters of the word .
The heart of man is wicked from his youth and up .
The reason why folks do not like what is written in said bible
IS because something in it , IS NOT their desire , nor the GOD who inspired such TRUTH their desire .
Their desire is upon the idea of a god , they BELEIVE AS GOD and TO BE GOD , that will promise them salvation
and a big ol scoop of what they truly desired , THEIR OWN lusts .
THAT is why many will follow another jesus , or another god .
The fault is on MAN , NOT GOD . THE FAULT is not IN HIS WORDS , but in man .
But teh sheep do not hear such ones . FOR within them a new heart has been given .
And that heart LOVETH GOD , CHRIST above all , mother father , son or daughter
And then its neighbor as itself . Their love has humanity first , themselves first . And
it cannot fullfill , it does not save them ,it keeps them in the darkness
JUST LIKE I ONCE WAS and as were all BEFORE GOD translated us into the kingdom of HIS dear son .
But many are the co workers of darkness and they too can cliam this same kingdom
BU T theirs is earthern as are the dreams and cares and pleasures in life , as are their lusts .
IT really is bible time in the house my friend .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
scripture actually confirms its beleive NOW or perish later .
I never seen it said once
and then the goats were told , okay you have a s econd chance now .
NOPE it was weeping an dwailing .
IN fact WHY did JESUS so warn them TO BE WATCHING , TO BE READY
TO be wise and not foolish and five virgins were shown to be .
DID you read that parable .
sure you did . NOW it shows five entering into
it shows five not ready , so they go and seek oil
UPON returning did you see JESUS say , OKAY you got a second chance come on in now .
OR I NEVER KNEW YOU . YOU are RIGHT SISTER .
NO where in scrips is this shown to have a second chance after death . IF One heard and rejected , THEY ARE and will
be damned .
In fact in the very book wherein it was stated as warning , WOE unto he who adds or takes from it
DO I SEE anyone that got put into the lake of fire , later GETTING OUT OF SAID LAKE OF FIRE .
and to teach so , WOULD THAT NOT be ad ding TOO that book .
But the simple thing to see is , YOU examine closely these men like st steven
and like others , who always go about trying to add to or take from .
AND GUESS what you WILL NOTICE . I DARN SURE DONT SEE ANY SENSE OF THE PREACHING OF JESUS
getting TOLD BY ANY OF THEM .
THEY dont behave any remotely close to the apostels in acts , WHO DID GO ABOUT WARNING MEN TO REPENT
and TO bELIEVE . no all they do is plant doubts about how its all going be a good end in the end .
BUT agian i only see TWO endings in said bible . ONE IS GOOD , VERY GOOD . the other BAD , VERY BAD .
AND i seem to see THE BELEIVERS in the GOOD and the workers of inquity , the unbleivers TORMENTED .
I dont see this third option so many now try and teach . LIKE oh its gonna all b e okay in the end . NEVER SEEN THAT MESSAGE SISTER .
I DID SEE this message . ITS GOOD FOR ALL WHO BLEIEVED , BELEIVED IN JESUS
but as JESUS hismelf said , as paul later states NOT GOOD FOR ANY who had rejected HIM .
HOW Much sorer a punishemnt for those who trod CHRIST under foot .
OR as JESUS siad , WOE UNTO THEE it will b e WORSE FOR YOU than ever it was for sodom .
DO THAT END SOUND GOOD TO YOU . no its sounds quite harsh .
On the risk to be fried I have some questions about the eternal hell fire.
1. Mark 12:38 And in his teaching he said, “Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces
Mark 12:39 and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,
Mark 12:40 who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”
Are there different punishments in hell ?
2. Matt 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Matt 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
If only few will find and saved the vast majority of creation will be in hell, it bothers me as that is not and never was God's will, on the contrary according to the Scriptures. And yet God knew in advance every outcome before before He created A&E and thus also in advance knew the percentage saved (few) and the percentage in hell. Note, the book of Life was written before creation.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
No warning about the eternal hell fire.
If that's the picture I am pretty sure I am missing something.
1. Mark 12:38 And in his teaching he said, “Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces
Mark 12:39 and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,
Mark 12:40 who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”
Are there different punishments in hell ?
2. Matt 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Matt 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
If only few will find and saved the vast majority of creation will be in hell, it bothers me as that is not and never was God's will, on the contrary according to the Scriptures. And yet God knew in advance every outcome before before He created A&E and thus also in advance knew the percentage saved (few) and the percentage in hell. Note, the book of Life was written before creation.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
No warning about the eternal hell fire.
If that's the picture I am pretty sure I am missing something.
Very possibly. God is just!
Jesus warned us several times about THE EVERLASTING Fire. He didn't make up horror stories.
Your interpretation of these scriptures is driven by centuries of doctrinal bias.
A person doesn't need to be incinerated to correct their behavior.
It happened before, it can happen again.
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?
Answer: the realm of the dead
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.
Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Hell is for skeptics? - LOL
Kolasis - William Barclay
The word for punishment is kolasis. The word was originally a gardening word, and its original meaning was pruning trees. In Greek there are two words for punishment, timoria and kolasis, and there is a quite definite distinction between them. Aristotle defines the difference; kolasis is for the sake of the one who suffers it; timoria is for the sake of the one who inflicts it. Plato says that no one punishes (kolazei) simply because he has done wrong - that would be to take unreasonable vengeance (timoreitai). We punish (kolazei) a wrong-doer in order that he may not do wrong again (Protagoras 323 E). Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil. Aulus Gellius says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated (The Attic Nights7.14). The difference is quite clear in Greek and it is always observed. Timoria is retributive punishment. Kolasis is always given to amend and to cure.
“The word aionios is difficult to translate. It is used in the Old Testament* to describe Israel’s possession of the holy land (Genesis 17.8; 48.4); Aaron’s priesthood (Numbers 25,13); regulations about blood in the sacrifices and about the day of atonement (Leviticus 3.17; 16.34); great mountains and hills (Habakkuk 3.6). Now aion literally means an age, and aionios is literally age-long. In all the cases we have quoted the translation is everlasting or for ever, but in every case the thing described is a human thing, and will sometime come to an end. In every case aionios means lasting for a very long time; it can even mean lasting as long as the present world lasts; but it does not mean lasting for ever and ever throughout eternity.
“The Greek usage of aionios is even more suggestive. Plato in the Laws (10.12) says that body and soul are indestructible (anolethron), but they are not eternal (aionios) like the gods. In the Timaeus he says that time as we know it in this world is formed on the model of the nature which is aionios, eternal. The fact is that in Greek aionios can properly only describe that which is divine; in the true sense of the term only God is aionios. Aionios kolasis is therefore the disciplinary punishment, designed for the cure of men, which may last throughout many ages, and which only God can give.
“I can therefore be seen that the phrase in Matthew 25.46 does not commit us to a doctrine of eternal punishment in the sense in which it is usually taken. It may well describe a disciplinary, curative punishment, and it certainly describes the punishment which only God can inflict.”
~William Barclay, The Apostle's Creed, pg 189-190
Judgment is neither a verdict, nor a sentence.
Mercy is always an option.
Believers will be judged as well.
Does that mean condemnation?
Where are Sodom and Edom today? Gone....forever. Destroyed....forever. The hyperbole was in the idea that those places would keep burning forever, but really it was a poetic picture to drive home the point that their destruction would last forever, with no coming back from it.
Nobody should be looking down their noses at those outside the church, but have compassion for them. We were once as they were, lost and in darkness. I know that some do though and they are in the wrong and immature to have that attitude.
But what I think I'm actually "hearing" with your argument here is a desire to breach the natural divide between believers and non-believers. There is no legitimate way to do that....it is part of the cost of knowing and following the Lord. The alternative is to be "friends with the world".......which is enmity with God. We are not to be unequally yoked. Of course that doesn't mean to be unkind and unloving to unbelievers or refuse to associate with them..... but it means we don't have fellowship with them because our hearts are not joined together in spirit. There are only two ways to bridge the divide.......either through Christ if the unbeliever receives Him....or conversely if the believer were to fall away from the Lord.
Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,
1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Similar threads
