Irrelevant. Jesus is the Just Judge and King. God alone will avenge his enemies, as he clearly states. You cannot apply Christ's judgement upon his enemies to how believers are to act now.
The Islamic Jihadi’s War Against Christianity
- Thread starter Wrangler
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Is that what I said? You completely missed the point. It seems like you want to interpret what I've said the same way you interpret Scripture--take things out of context and ignore the rest. Try reading against what I stated. And also try reading my previous post. Stop taking everything out of context to suit your beliefs.
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Projecting. I am putting what is said in context:
YOU: We should follow Jesus.
ME: Agreed. Jesus will immediately kill his enemies upon his return.
YOU: We shouldn’t follow Jesus in that way because <INSERT RATIONALIZATION HERE.>
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You are confusing the enemies of God with the enemies of the State, which God put in authority over us, with the command to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and not to neglect the weightier matters of God’s will, JUSTICE.
NayborBear
Active Member
Goes back even further than that Wrangler!
Psalms 110:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Is sad to see Wrangler and even sadder to say:
Some of these people NEVER?.......EVER! go, or get PAST the Cross of Christ UNTO the Father!
To these peoples? Accepting Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
ENDS their "spiritual journeyings!"
You insult the Lord by claiming:Goes back even further than that Wrangler!
Psalms 110:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Is sad to see Wrangler and even sadder to say:
Some of these people NEVER?.......EVER! go, or get PAST the Cross of Christ UNTO the Father!
To these peoples? Accepting Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
ENDS their "spiritual journeyings!"
Accepting Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
ENDS their "spiritual journeyings!"
Accepting Jesus Christ as Master is the beginning and end of our spiritual journey, for He is the Alpha and Omega.
Funny how the Crusader fans have to bypass the gospels and jump into the Old Testament or Revelation to misinterpret or misapply verses so they can somehow justify wars and violence in the current age of grace, love, and divine pacifism.
Maybe they played too many violent video games and watched too many horror films. Perhaps they are saturated with blood lust and an unseemly love of carnage and revenge. Or they are simply angry at everything.
We are speaking of holy, precious, devout matters here. To think a Christian can engage in armed combat and try to kill all the bad guys is an irreverent cartoon concept.
We cannot receive the compassionate teachings of Jesus — and then turn around and hate and harm people who were made in the image of God, for whom Christ died on the cross.
All 12 of the original disciples are said to have died as martyrs, without defending themselves by attacking their persecutors. Why did they not fight back? Because they followed Jesus and obeyed His commands. They, and not the barbaric Crusaders, are our role models.
RepentingChristian
Well-Known Member
So when did you gouge out your eyes?
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
RepentingChristian
Well-Known Member
Adventageous
Well-Known Member
But according to Muslims, Jesus was a Muslim! (I just recently encountered this (again) on Discord). *rolls eyes (knowingly)* Jesus never acted like a Muslim a day in His life.
Here, just for fun:
Qur'anic Inheritance Percentage / Math error:
- The texts, Surah's An-Nisa 4:11,12,176 & al'Awl
The surahs
- https://www.quranbookk.com/quran/surahs/english_hilali_khan/4?verse-number=11
qur'an surah An-Nisa 4:11 - يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّهُ فِي أَوْلَادِكُمْ ۖ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنْثَيَيْنِ ۚ فَإِنْ كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ ۖ وَإِنْ كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ ۚ وَلِأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِنْ كَانَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ وَلَدٌ وَوَرِثَهُ أَبَوَاهُ فَلِأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ ۚ فَإِنْ كَانَ لَهُ إِخْوَةٌ فَلِأُمِّهِ السُّدُسُ ۚ مِنْ بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِي بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۗ آبَاؤُكُمْ وَأَبْنَاؤُكُمْ لَا تَدْرُونَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ لَكُمْ نَفْعًا ۚ فَرِيضَةً مِنَ اللَّهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا
Al-Hilali-Khan (An-Nisa 4:11) - Allâh commands you as regards your children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; if (there are) only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of inheritance to each if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters), the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies he may have bequeathed or debts. You know not which of them, whether your parents or your children, are nearest to you in benefit; (these fixed shares) are ordained by Allâh. And Allâh is Ever All-Knower, All-Wise.
- https://www.quranbookk.com/quran/surahs/english_hilali_khan/4?verse-number=12
qur'an surah An-Nisa 4:12 - وَلَكُمْ نِصْفُ مَا تَرَكَ أَزْوَاجُكُمْ إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُنَّ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِنْ كَانَ لَهُنَّ وَلَدٌ فَلَكُمُ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْنَ ۚ مِنْ بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِينَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۚ وَلَهُنَّ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُمْ إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَكُمْ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِنْ كَانَ لَكُمْ وَلَدٌ فَلَهُنَّ الثُّمُنُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُمْ ۚ مِنْ بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ تُوصُونَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۗ وَإِنْ كَانَ رَجُلٌ يُورَثُ كَلَالَةً أَوِ امْرَأَةٌ وَلَهُ أَخٌ أَوْ أُخْتٌ فَلِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ ۚ فَإِنْ كَانُوا أَكْثَرَ مِنْ ذَٰلِكَ فَهُمْ شُرَكَاءُ فِي الثُّلُثِ ۚ مِنْ بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصَىٰ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ غَيْرَ مُضَارٍّ ۚ وَصِيَّةً مِنَ اللَّهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَلِيمٌ
Al-Hilali-Khan (An-Nisa 4:12) - In that which your wives leave, your share is a half if they have no child; but if they leave a child, you get a fourth of that which they leave after payment of legacies that they may have bequeathed or debts. In that which you leave, their (your wives) share is a fourth if you leave no child; but if you leave a child, they get an eighth of that which you leave after payment of legacies that you may have bequeathed or debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third, after payment of legacies he (or she) may have bequeathed or debts, so that no loss is caused (to anyone). This is a Commandment from Allâh; and Allâh is Ever All-Knowing, Most-Forbearing.
- https://www.quranbookk.com/quran/surahs/english_hilali_khan/4?verse-number=176
qur'an surah An-Nisa 4:176 - يَسْتَفْتُونَكَ قُلِ اللَّهُ يُفْتِيكُمْ فِي الْكَلَالَةِ ۚ إِنِ امْرُؤٌ هَلَكَ لَيْسَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ وَلَهُ أُخْتٌ فَلَهَا نِصْفُ مَا تَرَكَ ۚ وَهُوَ يَرِثُهَا إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَهَا وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِنْ كَانَتَا اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُمَا الثُّلُثَانِ مِمَّا تَرَكَ ۚ وَإِنْ كَانُوا إِخْوَةً رِجَالًا وَنِسَاءً فَلِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنْثَيَيْنِ ۗ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ أَنْ تَضِلُّوا ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
Al-Hilali-Khan (An-Nisa 4:176) - They ask you for a legal verdict. Say: "Allâh directs (thus) about Al-Kalâlah (those who leave neither descendants nor ascendants as heirs). If it is a man that dies leaving a sister, but no child, she shall have half the inheritance. If (such a deceased was) a woman, who left no child, her brother takes her inheritance. If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance; if there are brothers and sisters, the male will have twice the share of the female. (Thus) does Allâh make clear to you (His Law) lest you go astray. And Allâh is the All-Knower of everything."
The summary of the error:
Case #1
2 or more Daughters: (An-Nisa 4:11) "... if (there are) only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance ..."
2 Parents: (An-Nisa 4:11) "... For parents, a sixth share of inheritance to each if the deceased left children ..."
Wives: (An-Nisa 4:12) "... In that which you leave, their (your wives) share is a fourth if you leave no child; but if you leave a child, they get an eighth of that which you leave after payment of legacies that you may have bequeathed or debts. ..."
Total: 16/24 + 8/24 + 3/24 = 27/24 (112.5%) of the estate, even after "payment of legacies", so it is worse than the percentage given.
Case #2
Husband: (An-Nisa 4:12) "... In that which your wives leave, your share is a half if they have no child; ..."
Two Sisters: (An-Nisa 4:176) "... If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance; ..."
Total: 3/6 + 4/6 = 7/6 (116.7%) of the estate
The supposed correction by decreed "al-'Awl", never used by Abu al Qasim (Muhammad), and still errs - The origion of Awl in inheritance law
- "... ‘Awl was applied by the rightly-guided caliph ‘Umar may Allaah be pleased with him and the Companions during his time agreed with that. However, Ibn ‘Abbaas may Allaah be pleased with him held another opinion after the death of ‘Umar, an opinion that has become nearly obsolete. Ibn Qudaamah said in Al-Mughni: "The opinion of applying ‘Awl has been adopted by all Muslim scholars except Ibn ‘Abbaas and a small group that held another opinion... We do not know at the present time anyone who adopts the opinion of Ibn ‘Abbaas. We do not know of any disagreement among the jurists of the Islamic states regarding applying ‘Awl. All perfect praise be to Allaah." ..."
- "... The cause of ‘Awl presented itself during the time of the rightly-guided caliph ‘Umar ibn Al-Khattaab may Allaah be pleased with him. It was stated in the Al-Mawsoo‘ah Al-Fiqhiyyah:
- "The first case of ‘Awl was for a woman who died and left behind a husband and two sisters. This occurred during the beginning of the caliphate of ‘Umar. He consulted the Companions and said: "By Allaah, I do not know which of you comes first and which comes next. If I start with the husband and give him his right in full, the two sisters will not take their right in full; and if I start with the two sisters and give them their right in full, the husband will not take his right in full." According to the most recognized accounts, Al-‘Abbaas ibn ‘Abdul Muttalib may Allaah be pleased with him suggested that he could apply ‘Awl. Other accounts have it that it was ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib or Zayd ibn Thaabit. It was narrated that Al-‘Abbaas said: "O Leader of the Believers, tell me: If a man passed away and left six dirhams, and he owed three dirhams to one man and four to another, what would you do? Would you not make the wealth into seven parts?" He said, "Yes." Upon this, Al-‘Abbaas said: "It is the same thing." Thus, ‘Umar applied the principle of ‘Awl." ..."
See pictures for quick review, summary.
Attachments
Thank you for confirming your unfortunate disrespect for the Bible and your mockery of the teachings of Jesus.
Such attitudes are sad to see. May the Lord forgive you for despising the pacifist commands of our Savior.
RepentingChristian
Well-Known Member
You just got owned by your own theological illogic and your response is that of a liar and a coward.
Quote me, exactly, and link the post.
Case in point: you take what people say out of context just as you do the Bible in order to support your bad or false doctrines.
Yea, let’s just ignore Scripture and call it “<INSERT RATIONALIZATION HERE.>” It’s ignoring the full context and council of Scripture that leads to your many theological errors.
Notice that you even quote the very context you ignore in order to justify violence in the name of Christ:
“ME: Agreed. Jesus will immediately kill his enemies upon his return.”
When, exactly, will Jesus kill his enemies? “Upon his return.” What does God require of us in the meantime? See both mine and @Anchorite’s responses HERE.
No, I did not. You are reading what you want into what I posted. I stated nothing about enemies of the state, which is for the state to deal with.
You also ignore the fact that Jesus distinguishes between “what is Caesar’s” and “what is God’s.”
Mat 22:21 They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”
This is very poor reasoning. You’re using a passage which is clearly hyperbole, to show the seriousness of sin, to try and counter clear commands on how believers are supposed to live.
RepentingChristian
Well-Known Member
You lack discernment. We're allowed to use violence to stop a violent man from raping and strangling a little girl. You must be a Kamala voter.
Armour of God
Well-Known Member
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