The Discerning of Spirits
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PS95
Well-Known Member
Do you mean in others? I don't. God does. In myself? that's easy- when I do something right or good- I don't take any credit or feel self- righteous because of it or think I'm one step closer to salvation- I did what I was moved to do out of love- that simple. I rejoice in how God works in me- helping me to do what pleases Him not to earn a thing. He changed me. He made me see everything differently.
I'm not saying it's always easy. It isn't! We do take up our cross but we can't carry it alone. He is there helping us. WE grow thru trials and hardships. It's for our own good. Easy? no.. Best? yes. Read 2 Peter 1- we grow that way. Yet- we are fully equipped to do this. v 3- This is a walk- not a one time prayer and live as you used to. This is my argument with Behold. There is more than milk and it's not optional. - it is a part of the walk. If we are true believers- we will endure all things. There are even tests. BUT God promised Abraham and declared him righteous because he believed God.
30-40 years later his faith was tested. That is where James come in many years later after Abraham was justified for his faith in God.
I ask you- do you suppose God who promised Abraham 30 yrs prior did not KNOW that Abraham would remain faithful? Of course He did. Abraham obeyed God because he believed HIM. He knew he and Isaac would come back to the men waiting- he said so. He had total faith in God and therefore he obeyed. Abraham did not earn salvation that day- His saving faith was perfected. There is nothing we can ever do to earn eternal life! we are sinners- bought and paid for- now we walk in newness of life. Your works and my works can never earn this newness of life- we just walk in it.
Dunno who that is. I have listened to John MacArthur- I don't agree with all that he taught--- but he was a very good bible teacher overall. He balanced faith and obedience- He was hated for teaching, "Lordship" by the cheap grace people.
It doesn't. I don't want to abuse grace either. heaven forbid! But I have failed a few times by speaking impulsively- and wow I was hit hard by satan that I could not be forgiven. That's a lie. We struggle against wicked powers.
Of course you want to be a good person. I do too. Lots of people do. but we can never be good enough to earn eternal life. It is the GIFT of God. Jesus had to die for us to be saved. I sure can't add to that. I can only act on it.
God's love is conditional on accepting His Son as our Savior. Once we do- really do-- by letting go of our own selves knowing we need to be rescued- we can't do it ourselves- we all have sinned-- we are busted- we have broken God's laws -all of us have- and we took His laws as rules to obey in order to earn favor-- to be made righteous-- we were striving for something we could not ever do- Jesus came to save us. We were slaves to sins. Now we are set free from having sin dominate our lives- we have the Spirit who aids us to crush sin under our feet- It is a gift of God.
Those rules were LOVING- He wants us now to see all He is asking is-- to love Him and one another--- How precious is that?
We serve others because we love others- not to gain a point - if we gain a point we didn't do it freely out of love- we did it to gain.
We give freely because we were given freely.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I don't deny that it can be hard. It sure can. I never even suggested that it was a cake walk- but I am not saving myself!
I have never said we do good works to earn eternal life as if faith doesn't matter.
There are many warnings in Scripture about recieving grace in vain. All Im doing is working out my salvation with fear and trembling like the Word tells me to.
We won't agree.
I believe we ought to stop sinning completely and pursue perfection in a Godly sense. A lot of people preach against perfection but if you look it up in Scripture, plenty verses actually support it. I don't think we do it all on our own but I just can't accept the idea that effort in any way detracts from our walk with God or means you are trying to "save yourself" or anything like that. That's not in Scripture.
I don't agree with Monergism or the theology that says God has to do everything and we contribute nothing to our salvation.
Good works are to be zealously pursued (Titus 2:14). They don't mean you’re trying to somehow replace what Jesus did on the cross.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Your name-- I love the book of Titus- short and to the point!
1Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, 2to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. 3For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men. 9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Accepting the truth of our salvation is so important- our works are second and good but we were saved not on the basis of any deeds.. You can not do enough works to save yourself. It's impossible before a God so holy.
its just a matter of the cart and the horse.
We have had opposite backgrounds- so.. let me say this to ya- If you were a bad Christian because you were not taught obedience- that's a shame and not surprising- I don't think you were saved. I think that's why.
Have you ever fallen to your knees steeped in sins before the Lord asking His forgiveness and seeing Him on that bloody cross paying for your sins became a shocking most beautiful blessing knowing that He did that for you? I mean going to Him flat out broken into pieces and utterly helpless knowing that you deserve death.. and there is not a thing you can do alone to change that..?
but he saved us.. while we were yet sinners...
that comes first- the brokenness- acknowledging utter helplessness- then the faith in HIM on the cross redeeming you-making you right with God again--- and the forgiveness for all of the evil you've done and thought and said- - the LOVE- that amazing unmerited love---
Who does that? Who dies for anothers hateful sins? Mind blown! Such grace and so amazing.
Accept His gift of grace fully and then walk in His love--
cart. horse.
1Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, 2to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. 3For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men. 9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Accepting the truth of our salvation is so important- our works are second and good but we were saved not on the basis of any deeds.. You can not do enough works to save yourself. It's impossible before a God so holy.
its just a matter of the cart and the horse.
We have had opposite backgrounds- so.. let me say this to ya- If you were a bad Christian because you were not taught obedience- that's a shame and not surprising- I don't think you were saved. I think that's why.
Have you ever fallen to your knees steeped in sins before the Lord asking His forgiveness and seeing Him on that bloody cross paying for your sins became a shocking most beautiful blessing knowing that He did that for you? I mean going to Him flat out broken into pieces and utterly helpless knowing that you deserve death.. and there is not a thing you can do alone to change that..?
but he saved us.. while we were yet sinners...
that comes first- the brokenness- acknowledging utter helplessness- then the faith in HIM on the cross redeeming you-making you right with God again--- and the forgiveness for all of the evil you've done and thought and said- - the LOVE- that amazing unmerited love---
Who does that? Who dies for anothers hateful sins? Mind blown! Such grace and so amazing.
Accept His gift of grace fully and then walk in His love--
cart. horse.
You typically can tell by the way the act or behave.
Not every Christian person is perfect either.
You can be complete (perfect) or (mature in your faith.)
There are still many different measures of faith.
Regardless of what you think of a person... or regardless of what you think is in their best interest.
People got to choose for themselves at the end of the day.
GOing around thumping people on the head sure isnt nice either unless it might be needed but i dont advise that.
Not every Christian person is perfect either.
You can be complete (perfect) or (mature in your faith.)
There are still many different measures of faith.
Regardless of what you think of a person... or regardless of what you think is in their best interest.
People got to choose for themselves at the end of the day.
GOing around thumping people on the head sure isnt nice either unless it might be needed but i dont advise that.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I see no reason why we can't agree. Yes we are to walk godly- yes. But again- I see you are waffling. It's not easy to accept- to let go and believe. I have been there. I want to help you. The Beholds and the false teachers who deny abiding and teach osas while denying Christ by actions--- confuse so many!
What we are perfected in is.....?
LOVE.
1 john
Yes- Titus 3 says to be careful to do good works- no doubt. v 8--- but instead of focusing there I was trying to get you to focus on what he said before that--
verses 5-6-7- step 1-
5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
v8- step 2 is after truly believing step 1.
You've made several assumptions. You assumed I was just asking for anyone to assess me spiritually when I responded to another member. You assumed I am trying to earn my salvation through works. Now you're assuming I wasn't saved in the past.
This can all be easily overlooked, forgiven, brushed off, but please slow down and consider carefully before writing.
I agreed with you that we do nothing to recieve salvation initially. But Im also not going to answer your latest questions because it's like you are charging forward without taking too much care. You've been wrong about a lot so far so I don't think your assessment of me is accurate. I obey God because I love Him and wish to remain in His love as it is written. Don't worry about me.
PS95
Well-Known Member
You're right I did. I should not have butt in. I apologize. I saw you as struggling and hoped I could help you in some way.
Ok I apologize. I sure didn't mean to make you upset. I was trying to understand you a little better. I guess I messed that up. Sorry.
Yes- I too obey Him because I love Him. So glad we agree there.
Take care Wynona.
You as well, hope you and the fam have been good ma'am.
Thank you for finding something worth while in my writings.
In my life I continue to age. Surprised, totally. Don't always want to but must.
Seen many people come and go. I am not perfect. I am complete in my faith, and can be mature in Christ - sometimes I will be childish still.
All people are a work in progress, and I believe sometimes people can become to passionate on these websites and they typically overshoot themselves in their own feet not really even meaning to.
Im thankful for the experiences that have been had through-out life. Its not always been fun, but at least there are some happy moments in there, and bad times and frustration....
We are human the most important thing to remember I guess.
From first glance I can only see that you are further along in your spiritual walk than you realize, you don't need anyone to discern where are spiritual because what you see and understand as your spiritual state is not what God sees and understands. anything another person might discern or try to discern is only going to be small bit compared to to actual truth that the father sees and knows.
You need to have more confidence not in yourself but in what the father says about you, your spiritual state can flciker depending on many factors how you are feeling life's circumstances the enemy attacking or in fluencing but the father knew you before you were even born he sees the beginning from end your spiritua state as you say is not the important thing to him it is you yourself the creation he took such tender care creating
I don't see a state or level of spiritual essence I only see the father smiling down at you in pride and a deep profound love this creation he has made is the apple of his eye. and I am not saying all this to flatter or sugar coat anything I am saying this to explain to you that you are not to focus on what your spiritual state is but rather to seek and learn and understand what he sees and says of you not from a time to time thing but as from the perspective of eternity .
Confidence in him is the key what he sees and says about is the key, the enemy would want you to focus on what your spiritual state is the unsureness of yourself how far along you are how strong you are if your weakness or flaws or sins are affecting your walk because this is a short term short sighted thing it can in your eyes seem to rise and fall you can be running at one point and then barely crawling the next
But from the perspective of God himself none of that matters you only need to understand the deep love and pride he has in you as his child
Think about it for a second even if I told you what your spiritual state was would that really make you feel any better? many things could spill into your heart you could feel better for a time but then the struggle and worries and doybt would eventually sink back in your heart would flutter at first yes but then you would want to foc us on better yourself on the weak points in your walk and want to strengthen what is already strong and this is not what the father wants he simply wants you to accept what he says of you because what he says of you is eternal not based on how your spiritual state or how far along you are or anything like that.
What I see in you is not a state of being or a state of spirituality I only see that he treasures you for eternity his pride in you is eternal regardless of any weakness you have or how you are doing from one moment to the next he loves all of you all your strength all your weakness and all you have to do is just let go of everything and just sink into that warm deep love in the ocean of his heart only then will you feel complete his heart beats as if only for you each drum beat a echo of eternity
We humans can far to often only see the here and now and we think and decide based on that but this is something that needs to fall that we have to let go it is a matter of sinking of letting go releasing as if shedding the flesh entirely. You are already so far along further than you realize immensely so in fact but not because of where you are now but rather because of what you are going to be what what you already are in the eyes of eternity
Spiritual discernemnt is not about discerningthe here and now or the spiritual state of someone it is about being able to see through his eyes to be able to know what his heart is saying yes one can at times be seeing the here and now state of someone but this is a lesser form of spiritual discernment only one thing matters when it comes to you as I speak and that is to simply sink in the warmth of his love accept that he his love for you is eternal because you are his and his alone let go of any thought or feeling of where you are this walk is not based on moment to moment but on eternity.
- Aug 10, 2012
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It seems in some things the Lord addresses them instantly. And in others we are left to stumble about.
It is written that we will not be tempted more than we can bare. So, perhaps those things which he addressed quickly fall in the category of things beyond what we can bare. Or the penalty for sin was in danger of leading to a quick death beyond our abilities to change in time.
To be honest, I don't know why my confidence wavers so much. It's not as if God hasn't spoken to me.
It's because you are human. To truly have confidence in both yourself and in God you would have to be void of the flesh or be Jesus himself. We are told time and time again how weak the flesh is and the enemy knows this so even the strongest in God's army have a point that will make them falter this is why blind faith and trust in God is so important because he knows and sees what never could.
The human heart is a tender thing and thus it can easily influenced like I said before in my previous post your spiritual state can flicker depending on many variables your state of being can be running at one point then barely crawling the next and on a deeper level your view of yourself is lmoast always a lie, as one who struggles very much on self worth myself constantly poking at my own wounds inside debating on if I am good enough strong enough pure enough I understand completely how hard it can be to simply accept how he sees and feeels about us.
But something that always helps me is the a single memory. Have you ever felt his love on a deep and profound level? like a kind of depth that words cannot describe? where your heart just melts for him? I am sure you have and if you have think back on that moment for a second. For me personally when he envoloped me in his arms and just a tiny drop of that love was so deep so rich so vast that my own body couldn't handle it. but in that moment everything else vanished the world everything I was everything I felt about myself all of it was gone it was just his heart and my heart singing to each other
This is my anchor what I cling to when I am dealing with low confidence or self worth without a strong anchor your heart can go wild your view of yourself your understanding your spiritual state can all be set aflame and not in a good way either. we can have the head knowledge of who are in him how he deeply loves and treasures us but heart knowledge is on a whole other level
You need a strong anchor to keep you standing strong and when that anchor is the love he poured into that intimacy you felt and shared with him then no amount of doubts or self inflicted worries can break you.
You may even have to return to that anchor often but this is a strength not a waekness. again when you keep that memory of the love you shared with him in your heart where nothing else existed or mattered but that love that is the highest form of intimacy and faith the one thing that sets apart those who are strong in him and those who are not
Hebrews 2· NETB
3 how will we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was first communicated through the Lord (early 30s AD) and was confirmed to us (second generation believers) by those (first generation believers) who heard him,4 while God confirmed their (First generation) witness with signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Here we see that the second generation believers did not perform any of the miracles that the first generation did. The second generation and all subsequent generations (up to the Rapture or end of the Church Age) there will be no Apostolic signs. Many of these miracles will be performed by Satan and his minions (2 Thes 2.9) during the Tribulation/Jewish Dispensation.
The Apostolic gifts were over with by the end of the first century (96 AD), although according to this passage, it could be argued that the sign gifts ceased by 70 AD.
Some miraculous gifts will resume during the Tribulation (i.e., the final 7 years of the Jewish Dispensation) shortly after the Rapture.
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