Eight objections to evolution

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The Barbarian

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Does this notion of evolution qualify as a "theory"?
Yes. All of Darwin's points of evolutionary theory have been confirmed by evidence. Many other predictions of the theory have since been confirmed.
My understanding of a scientific theory is that you can repeat experiments that show your hypothesis to be correctly predictive.
Yes. But not always experiments. For example, Einstein's theory predicted that mass distorts space. It was unproven until observations during an eclipse of the sun showed that space was distorted enough to show stars that were actually behind the sun. Properly, a theory is a hypothesis for which its predictions have been repeatedly verified by subsequent evidence.

Darwin's claim is that random variation, along with natural selection changes populations over time, and this sometimes causes new species. Evolutionary theory today adds the findings of genetics, which cleared up one major problem with Darwin's theory.
 

The Barbarian

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He did. It just isn't in Genesis. It's in Ezekiel.
The only reference I'm familiar with, is his mention of the King of Tyre:
Exekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

But this is obviously not saying that the king was literally in the garden of Eden. Or is that your point?
 

Wick Stick

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The only reference I'm familiar with, is his mention of the King of Tyre:
Exekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

But this is obviously not saying that the king was literally in the garden of Eden. Or is that your point?
There's a few. Chapter 31:

3 Behold, the Assyrian [was] a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. ...
8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that [were] in the garden of God, envied him.
16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. 17 They also went down into hell with him unto [them that be] slain with the sword; and [they that were] his arm, [that] dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. 18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with [them that be] slain by the sword. This [is] Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.


Here, Ezekiel treats the garden of Eden as a literal place - "in Lebanon." However, he doesn't treat the trees as literal. Instead, he makes them metaphors for the kings of nations. In particular, the Assyrian king and his allies, though the prophecy is ultimately about the downfall of Pharoah.

As for the king of Tyre in chapter 28, if the garden of Eden is identified by the prophet as "Lebanon," then I believe Tyre is literally located in Lebanon.
 

Grailhunter

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But humanity didn't create the universe and everything in it. Only God can create something from nothing. This is exactly what the Bible says: He spoke it into existence and created man from the dust of the ground. If you truly are a Christian, then there is no middle ground to be had. You say I haven't given any answer to why evolution might have been a means of creation when I have given many reasons why it cannot. There's simply no observational evidence of something changing from one kind to another kind as Darwin suggested. There's nothing in the fossil record to support it either. That's why it remains an unproven theory. Conversely, you haven't provided any reasons why evolution might have been the means of creation.

1. I do not think you have a good argument against Evolution. They literally have dozens of examples of change and thousands of examples.
2. Darwin is old school.....He is not a good example of evolutionary science.
3. Because a person agrees with Evolution that does not mean they are not a devoted Christian.
4. This is actually a good case study: The number of people that think that the Bible is God. Then they put Holy Bible on the cover. The Bible is not a God. The scriptures are not a God. The Bible is not Holy. The scriptures were men documenting God and or trying to understand God. That is a good thing, but it was written from an antient perspective. Not a good source for the Law of Physics or advanced medical or Cosmology or the advancement of species......The Bible lead people to think that the earth was the shape of a cracker on a foundation, immovable and the sun and stars revolved around it.
5. The scriptures were inspired by God, not dictated. Man's attempt to document God and the history of it all. We call the scriptures the Word of God.....but they are not an actual God. That would be idolatry.
6. As far as Creationism.....The oldest part of the "Bible" Which is made up of two separate short creation stories that have their differences and both are vague and full of symbolism. Nothing bad but, it is what it is. From there people speculate and fill in the holes left by the stories.

You turn on your satellite TV and you watch a football game broadcasted from a satellite 20,000 plus miles in space. You call an ambulance with that witchy smart phone that can talk to nearly anyone around the world. If you have a heart attack you go to that building of science to be treated by someone that knows more than what the Bible says.....if not....you are going to die.

The science of Evolution.....human or otherwise.....includes many branches of scientific disciplines. Considering all that, I find the theory of Intelligent design the most plausible. And all theories have holes.....I know that God created things from nothing....no way around it.....Even the Big Bang theory starts after God created the material to go bang. Something from nothing that goes bang and sets things in motion and the rest evolves under His power and control. The real difference is that "DAYS" can mean periods of billions of years.

There is nothing degrading to Christianity to know or believe that there is a lot more to the story of creation than what is written in those two short stories in Genesis, as long as you know whatever theory is prevalent, God was the power and intelligence behind all of it.
 

marks

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Yes. All of Darwin's points of evolutionary theory have been confirmed by evidence. Many other predictions of the theory have since been confirmed.
No one has seen a new species. The only "evolution" anyone has seen is adaptation, not changing species. You yourself claim a new species except they can reproduce with the "origin" species, so this is not a new species at all. That's the very definition of a species.

The more we add to our body of knowledge, the more scientists are recognizing intelligent design. You can see it in an airplane, or a toaster, but you can't see it in the human body, which I find puzzling to say the least!

Much love!
 

The Barbarian

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No one has seen a new species.
Drosophia miranda, for example.
The only "evolution" anyone has seen is adaptation,
No, that's wrong. You've confused evolution and adaptation
Getting a sun tan is adaptation, but not evolution.
A random mutation that has not selective value is evolution, but not adaptation.
Evolution of a new enzyme system is evolution and adaptation.

You yourself claim a new species except they can reproduce with the "origin" species, so this is not a new species at all.
You don't get what a species is. A species is reproductive isolate from other populations. So polar bears (Ursus maritimus) is a species. So is a brown bear (Ursus arctos). They are very different, but having diverged around the last ice age, they can still reproduce sometimes. as in zoos.

Darwin pointed this out in his theory. If evolution is a fact, one would expect to see transitional cases where reproduction is still somewhat possible. If creationism were true, this would be impossible. It's a huge problem, one in which many creationists have fudged a little, allowing that new species, new genera, and sometimes new familes can evolve.

The more we add to our body of knowledge, the more scientists are recognizing intelligent design.
The Kitzmiller trial pretty much put intelligent design out of the running, showing that it's a religion doctrine, not a scientific theory. IDer Michael Behe openly admitted that ID is science in the same sense that astrology is science. The decision was, as ID inventer Philip Johnson admitted was a "train wreck" for ID. It's no longer an issue in the sciences, although religions like Islam and some fundamentalist Christians still accept it.

You can see it in an airplane, or a toaster, but you can't see it in the human body,
Airplanes and toasters are designed, rather than evolved. We do have some examples of evolved machines now, since engineers have discovered that evolution is more efficient than design for solving complex problems. But living things show all sorts of evidence of evolution. Would you like to learn about some of those?
 

Armour of God

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1. Evolution is a theory that can't be proven using the scientific method. In the scientific method, you form your hypothesis and then test it with experiments to determine if it's true or not. But with evolution, there's nothing to test. It can't be duplicated in the lab; therefore, it can't be proven. That also highlights a big problem for evolution. If life was so simple to start by happenstance, we should be able to add a few crucial ingredients and create life in the lab, but that hasn't been the case.

Some people will point to evidence of a moth changing colors or insects becoming immune to pesticides as evidence of evolution. This is something called microevolution, which is really just the full genetic expression of a species. However, macroevolution has its limits. A moth may be able to change color, but it's still a moth. It will never become something else. Macroevolution, which is what Darwin espoused, is the changing of one kind into another kind. That is something that has never been observed in nature. Thus, it will forever remain a theory.

True. Real science supposed to be observable and testable.
Theory of evolution (TOE) is neither.
It is known as a theoretical science which operates on a much lower standard of evidence which is based on speculation and assumption. It's closer to philosophy than science.
Microevolution happens.
Mutations happen.
Natural selection also happens with factors such as weather or food supply.
Those moths changed colour over time because the trees changed colour over time, that's not evolution that's natural selection.

But macroevolution never happens.
A species of animal doesn't come from another species of animal. It's never been observed and not even genetic engineering can acheive it

2. Evolution doesn't explain how life began. In the beginning, there was only inorganic matter. For evolution to be true, organic matter would have to arise from inorganic matter. How does that happen? There is no known mechanism by which that could occur. Evolution is based upon mutations, but for mutations to occur, organic material has to already exist. Do you see the problem? It's like the joke: which came first, the chicken or the egg? We live in a cause-and-effect universe. There has to be cause to start the process to begin with.

When you ask an evolutionist how life began many will simply say that not their field of science, that belongs to abiogenesis.
In any case, theoretic materialist science says that all life came from one single cell known as the universal common ancestor.
Problem is that a cell can only replicate itself. A lions skin cell can only replicate a lions skin cell, it cannot replicate a human heart cell.

3. If everything evolved from simple cell organisms, there would have to be thousands, if not millions, of transitional changes from one kind to the next kind. There should be evidence of this in the form of skeletal remains. However, the fossil record just does not show it. Charles Darwin admitted this was a problem for his theory.

Darwin admitted this. But take a fossil such as Lucy. A bunch of bones scattered over a large area. So it's an assumption that it came from one individual. It's less than 50% of a complete skeleton, has no feet bones so it's an assumption that it was a biped. It had no skull so it's an assumption it had a human-like skull. And it's hip was modified to make it look human.
And they point to that as being a transitional fossil between ape and human when it's all based on assumption. If it's actually from one individual in the first place it is just another ape.

A fossil called Archaeopteryx was thought to be a missing link that showed reptiles evolving into birds but it's just an extinct animal. Later they would find that birds were already around before then.

They've also fraudently made fossils. Piltdown man was the best evidence they had for humans coming from apes. It held firm for almost 50 years before it was discovered that they had put a humans skull onto an apes jaw.

4. Evolution runs contrary to the law of thermodynamics. In the theory of evolution, all living creatures are getting better with time. However, thermodynamics states that entropy always increases. In essence, entropy means everything moves from order to disorder, never the reverse. This is why inorganic objects will wear out and need to be replaced, and organic beings get old and die. Things don't get better with time; they get worse.

This is also true for the human genome. Geneticist Dr. John Sanford, in his book Genetic Entropy, says the human race is currently degenerating at 1-2% per generation due to the accumulation of mutations, and "the extinction of the human genome appears to be just as certain and deterministic as the extinction of stars, the death of organisms, and the heat death of the universe. " Evolution is built upon mutations, but mutations don't generally make things better; they result in handicaps.

That's also true. Everything deteriorates.
Cells are constantly deteriorating. That's why they have to duplicate so often. A mutation of nearly always a deleterious one. It cannot produce an animal of a different kind. It runs contrary to the laws of thermodynamics.

5. Evolution does not account for the high degree of uniformity we see in nature. Let's take humans for example. Humans are all anatomically the same. We may have superficial differences—different hair, skin, and eye color, for example—but we all have one head, two arms, two legs, the same organs and appendages, and so on. You may see birth defects, as with conjoined twins, but this is an abnormality. The point is, humans and animals would not evolve the exact same way. We should see many different variations in structure and anatomy, but we don't.

True. Different colur hair, skin, eyes in humans are types of mutations but a human is still a human.
Humans have been breeding animals such as dogs and farm animals for thousands of years. We see different breeds but a dog is still a dog, it has never evolved into anything else, they can all still breed with eachother despite being different breeds.

6. Evolution requires many changes over millions of years to organize into complex organisms. But such a long protracted timeframe would actually work against evolution. You see, things like the immune system and blood coagulation would have had to be there from the beginning; otherwise, the organism would die before it had a chance to evolve. Moreover, complex individual systems such as the eyes and ears are interdependent on each other to function. These systems must be complete and functioning as a whole from the beginning; otherwise, they serve no purpose.

Exactly. How does a single cell evolve into different cells and then different systems and then arrange themselves into different animals. It's nothing more than speculation and wishful thinking

7. DNA is analogous to a binary computer code. It contains information that is arranged in different sequences. It is then read by the cells like an instruction manual to build proteins. The question is, where did all that information come from? A computer program requires a programmer, someone outside the system to provide the information. It stands to reason that if DNA acts as code, then it also required an external programmer, or in this case, a creator.

Information doesn't form randomly. You can just randomly put letters together and expect to form coherent words. It would just be an illiterate mess. Only an intelligent designer can put down this code and information in our DNA that is required for life.

8. This final point ties in with the previous point. For evolution to be true, it would, in essence, have to be driven by a non-sentient intelligence. Something as complex as humans and animals can't just come about by happenstance. Our bodies are symmetrical; each organ performs specific tasks. All the systems of the body are individual parts but also interdependent, all working together in a synergetic way. The point is, no matter how you slice it, there has to be some sort of intelligence behind it. So, what's more logical, that we are here because of a non-sentient intelligence or that we got here by a sentient intelligence? To me, the latter is much more plausible.

True. Sometimes they'll say that because animals or genes have similar parts that us evidence for evolution. Again it's nothing more then speculation and wishful thinking.

A Hilux has similar parts to a Land Cruiser, sometimes identical parts. That doesn't mean one evolved from another, it just means its creator, Toyota, used the same parts for two different vehicles.

I enjoyed threading this @Jericho
If you wrote this then your a genius but even if you copy and paste it your a smart person.

Praise does not go to processes that are blind, random and materialistic as TOE says

Praise goes to God
 
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Grailhunter

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True. Real science supposed to be observable and testable.
Theory of evolution (TOE) is neither.
It is known as a theoretical science which operates on a much lower standard of evidence which is based on speculation and assumption. It's closer to philosophy than science.

They have found and collected tens of thousands of fossils of human and animals. And it proves the evolutionary process that occurred over millions of years.
 
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Grailhunter

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Information doesn't form randomly. You can just randomly put letters together and expect to form coherent words. It would just be an illiterate mess. Only an intelligent designer can put down this code and information in our DNA that is required for life.

Intelligent designer, namely God.
 

amigo de christo

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They have found collected tens of thousands of fossils of human and animals. And it proves the evolutionary process that occurred over millions of years.
and you are the same one that also says the older bibles are not accurate .
SOUNDS TO ME like YOUR TRUST IS BIG TIME IN MEN . NOT GOD .
 
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Jericho

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I enjoyed threading this @Jericho
If you wrote this then your a genius but even if you copy and paste it your a smart person.

Thanks, I did write it, but I'm no genius. I'm just a deep thinker who reads a lot. Evolution never made sense to me, but people are going to believe what they want to believe.
 
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Grailhunter

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Thanks, I did write it, but I'm no genius. I'm just a deep thinker who reads a lot. Evolution never made sense to me, but people are going to believe what they want to believe.

Make sense is important. If God tried to explain evolution, celestial configurations, DNA, RNA, nuclear power, space flight to those in the biblical period.....it would have sounded too strange to them. Not good for the faith. So the Bible has two different stories of Adam and Eve.....that caused enough confusion.
Better for faith to give people an explanation for why creation is written in the Bible the way it is. Particularly young people who know what is written in the Genesis account sound like fantasy and is not true. Most people understand that God could not explain the facts to a primitive people.
 

Jericho

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Make sense is important. If God tried to explain evolution, celestial configurations, DNA, RNA, nuclear power, space flight to those in the biblical period.....it would have sounded too strange to them. Not good for the faith. So the Bible has two different stories of Adam and Eve.....that caused enough confusion.
Better for faith to give people an explanation for why creation is written in the Bible the way it is. Particularly young people who know what is written in the Genesis account sound like fantasy and is not true. Most people understand that God could not explain the facts to a primitive people.

If the Genesis account can be dismissed because it "sounds" like fantasy, which is a subjective argument, then the whole Bible could be dismissed by that measure. It's true that the Bible is not a scientific textbook, but there is no allusion to evolution whatsoever. Certainly, if God used evolution, then it could have been described in a way using poetic language so that it could be understood by primitive humans, but it doesn't. It says that God formed Adam of the dust of the ground, fully whole. Everything is made up of the same stuff at the atomic level. It's reasonable to conclude that God simply rearranged the molecules in the dust and formed man. And look what happens when we die: we turn right back into dust. From dust we came, and to dust we will go.
 

amigo de christo

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If the Genesis account can be dismissed because it "sounds" like fantasy, which is a subjective argument, then the whole Bible could be dismissed by that measure. It's true that the Bible is not a scientific textbook, but there is no allusion to evolution whatsoever. Certainly, if God used evolution, then it could have been described in a way using poetic language so that it could be understood by primitive humans, but it doesn't. It says that God formed Adam of the dust of the ground, fully whole. Everything is made up of the same stuff at the atomic level. It's reasonable to conclude that God simply rearranged the molecules in the dust and formed man. And look what happens when we die: we turn right back into dust. From dust we came, and to dust we will go.
stand firm upon the scriptures my friend .
Child like faith . With GOD is nothing too hard or difficult .
And it even says and the evening and the morning were the first day . Ev olution came of men .
And i f or one SHALL NOT HEED a word one of it .
Simply believe that which is written .
 
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Grailhunter

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If the Genesis account can be dismissed because it "sounds" like fantasy, which is a subjective argument, then the whole Bible could be dismissed by that measure. It's true that the Bible is not a scientific textbook, but there is no allusion to evolution whatsoever. Certainly, if God used evolution, then it could have been described in a way using poetic language so that it could be understood by primitive humans, but it doesn't. It says that God formed Adam of the dust of the ground, fully whole. Everything is made up of the same stuff at the atomic level. It's reasonable to conclude that God simply rearranged the molecules in the dust and formed man. And look what happens when we die: we turn right back into dust. From dust we came, and to dust we will go.

That is the problem, knowing what we know the Genesis account sounds like fantasy. To the primitive people it sounded believable and that was important. To say that the scriptures could not be written for a primitive people with the facts is true. They simply would not have understood it. And depending how far the facts went, it could have caused a lot of harm.

Once we managed electricity, we went from candles to nuclear weapons and landing on the moon in less than a hundred years. God did right not to educate them in those primitive times. The era of world domination started in the Old Testament. Knowledge is power and one thing leads to another and it ends up as weapons. They could have destroyed the world before the era of salvation occurred.

Defining what actually happened and why God could not explain it to a primitive people leaves the rest of the Bible hold true. Insisting that the Creation story is true makes Christianity look backwards and then they wonder if the rest of the Bible is true. Understanding the perspective of antient writings is not hard to grasp. It is easy to understand that there is antient perspective. The whole back then believed the world was flat and sailing ships could fall of the edges and the Bible went along with that belief. The did not know that stars were suns and what fell to earth were asteroids not suns.

Presenting the fact as they happened and that God was behind all of it, makes a lot more sense. Does science know exactly what happened? No. But they have a good idea. And it will all make more sense to young people.
God is real, better to present the real.
 

Wick Stick

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If the Genesis account can be dismissed because it "sounds" like fantasy, which is a subjective argument, then the whole Bible could be dismissed by that measure.
This argument is my pet peeve.

Why would we dismiss the entire Bible if we dismissed one book? If we dismissed... Esther... or Obadiah... you wouldn't say we have to get rid of the whole Bible. The same is true for Genesis.

Do all the other books rely on Genesis? NO. I know you want to say yes to that, but NO. Every other major doctrine can be observed in the other books.
 

Armour of God

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They have found and collected tens of thousands of fossils of human and animals. And it proves the evolutionary process that occurred over millions of years.

LoL. No it doesn't.
Darwin himself admitted this.
Wishful thinking and assumption.
Not science.

Unless God makes it replicate itself.

Intelligent designer, namely God.

That's not what TOE says.
It says evolution happened through. materialistic processes. Without God.

There are two theories.
Evolution and intelligent design.
Your stuck somewhere in the middle.

Listen to the intelligent design scientists my friend. They show you how the fossil record doesn't prove evolution, how cells cannot create new cells and new systems, how TOE is an inadequate theory.

Stop trusting the atheist scientist. Their deliberately trying to pull our children away from God. They should have a millstone tied around their necks and thrown into the sea

images-16.jpeg
 

Armour of God

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and you are the same one that also says the older bibles are not accurate .
SOUNDS TO ME like YOUR TRUST IS BIG TIME IN MEN . NOT GOD .

If our brother would only question these atheist scientists as much as he questions the bible he would receive such revelation from God regarding these matters