The FOUR HORSEMEN of the Apocalypse

[William Barton]

The expression is εν τακει = quickly. The context is prophecy, which often speaks of large passages of time. Revelation was apparently written about 90 A.D., hence 2026-90 = 1936 years so far.

It is happening before our eyes:
1. Israel was established as a nation.
2. The Jews chose Hebrew as their national language.
3. They are training priests.
4. They are breeding red refers for sacrifice.

"Four horsemen" (Revelation 6:1-7) apparently refers to future war in the Middle East.

 

[The Light]

I always associated the four horsemen and the other seals with Mat 24:


1)white horse rider(Mt 24 "many shall come in my name saying I am anointed(Christ)
2)red horse rider who takes peace from the earth(wars and rumors of wars)
3)Black horse rider who measures food (famines in different places)
4)Pale(Green) horse rider is death and hell follows kills 1/3 with disease and war(pestilences)

Correct. The 1st four seals are the beginning of sorrows of Matthew 24

5)Under the alter those who died for Jesus(they shall deliver you up)

The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24.

6)earthquakes, sun becomes black ,moon becomes as blood(compare with Mt 24)Isa 2:19 men hiding in the holes of the rocks and in caves(Joel 2:31)

The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. There is a harvest at the 6th seal, the second rapture, when Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

7)silence in heaven(because Jesus is returning with his angels and saints.(heaven is empty)

The seventh seal is much, much more than silence in heaven. The seventh seal is the wrath of God which contains the 7 trumpets and 7 vials. The wrath of God lasts ONE YEAR as the marriage supper of Lamb occurs. After one year, the armies of heaven return to earth following Jesus for Armageddon.

 

[The Light]

The expression is εν τακει = quickly. The context is prophecy, which often speaks of large passages of time. Revelation was apparently written about 90 A.D., hence 2026-90 = 1936 years so far.

It is happening before our eyes:
1. Israel was established as a nation.
2. The Jews chose Hebrew as their national language.
3. They are training priests.
4. They are breeding red refers for sacrifice.

They have red heifers that were bred in Texas.

They sacrificed a red heifer for cleansing.

 

[William Barton]

They have red heifers that were bred in Texas.

They sacrificed a red heifer for cleansing.

IMO:
The animal sacrifices were intended to convey punishment for sin, from people to animals.

Also consider the progression:

o Trumpet judgments: call to order.
o. Scroll judgments: proclamation declaring Jesus king of the earth.
o Bowl judgments: hot-oil torture of those opposing King Jesus.

 

[Mosheli]

I don't think the suggested 4 matches in the OP (and next few posts) really wholly fit with the descriptions of the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6.

A while ago I tried myself to see if I could find any matches.

I think the White Horseman, said to be "conquest", maybe represents "Christianity" and "in this sign conquer". The white and type of crown and bow ("covenant") are symbols that fit with Christianity. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 3 . Christianity was spread to the world in the time of the conquistadores and the later colonial empires.

The Red Horseman represents "war". There have been increasing wars since about the time of the Napoleonic wars to now. It could also maybe include the revolutions and communism? The 'great sword' could represent the "Great War" (WW1) possibly? Maybe still roving the earth now (Ukraine, Gaza, etc). 4 Horsemen of Revelation

The Black Horseman represents either "famine" or inflation. Inflation is connected with industrialism. A good match for inflation could be the Great Depression? Could have been roving the earth since industrial revolution to now still. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 2

The "pale" or crus ("green") Horseman is more difficult. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 4 .

 

[CTK]

I don't think the suggested 4 matches in the OP (and next few posts) really wholly fit with the descriptions of the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6.

A while ago I tried myself to see if I could find any matches.

I think the White Horseman, said to be "conquest", maybe represents "Christianity" and "in this sign conquer". The white and type of crown and bow ("covenant") are symbols that fit with Christianity. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 3 . Christianity was spread to the world in the time of the conquistadores and the later colonial empires.

The Red Horseman represents "war". There have been increasing wars since about the time of the Napoleonic wars to now. It could also maybe include the revolutions and communism? The 'great sword' could represent the "Great War" (WW1) possibly? Maybe still roving the earth now (Ukraine, Gaza, etc). 4 Horsemen of Revelation

The Black Horseman represents either "famine" or inflation. Inflation is connected with industrialism. A good match for inflation could be the Great Depression? Could have been roving the earth since industrial revolution to now still. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 2

The "pale" or crus ("green") Horseman is more difficult. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 4 .

I don't know if you agree, but the war that takes place after the cross is not a secular war or series of wars among secular nations. God is not interested in speaking about or prophesying about wars mankind has always and always will begin... "there will be wars and rumors of wars." God had set up His earthly kingdom at the cross and began His earthly church. Thus, the war He is concerned about and is speaking and prophesying about is the one that will corrupt His church, His people, and even God Himself. Daniel 7 and 8 offer more than enough of the characteristics and behaviors the "little horn" will adopt against His church. This, to me, carries over nicely to Revelation where God reveals His church in 7 separate ways as they progress through time until His return. The little horn will not come to power until the / around the end of the 3rd church in Revelation. This is because the demise of pagan Rome (Daniel 7:11) in 476 AD, and the "restrainer" in 2 Thessalonians 2 (pagan Rome), is removed and this alllows the papacy to sit atop the 4th beast kingdom and rule over both religious and civil matters. They will claim to be His representative on earth, infallibility, forgive sins and change His laws and commandments., and so much more.y Thus, one can match the rider on the white horse as the coming to power of the papacy in the late 5th century / early 6th century. And he will continue throughout the next 4 church periods until he is destroyed without human hands. He does not have any arrows because he does not conquer by military means or might.

 

[William Barton]

I don't think the suggested 4 matches in the OP (and next few posts) really wholly fit with the descriptions of the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6.

A while ago I tried myself to see if I could find any matches.

I think the White Horseman, said to be "conquest", maybe represents "Christianity" and "in this sign conquer". The white and type of crown and bow ("covenant") are symbols that fit with Christianity. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 3 . Christianity was spread to the world in the time of the conquistadores and the later colonial empires.

The Red Horseman represents "war". There have been increasing wars since about the time of the Napoleonic wars to now. It could also maybe include the revolutions and communism? The 'great sword' could represent the "Great War" (WW1) possibly? Maybe still roving the earth now (Ukraine, Gaza, etc). 4 Horsemen of Revelation

The Black Horseman represents either "famine" or inflation. Inflation is connected with industrialism. A good match for inflation could be the Great Depression? Could have been roving the earth since industrial revolution to now still. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 2

The "pale" or crus ("green") Horseman is more difficult. 4 Horsemen of Revelation Part 4 .

IMO:
It's apocalyptic literature. The imagery is the progression of an announcement:

o Seals (presumably wax) on a scroll are removed (chapters 5:1-8:5).
o Trumpet perhaps sounds after seals are removed (chapters 8.6-11:19).
o Scroll is read, condemnation ensues (chapters 12:1-25:8)
o Bowl judgments (presumably hot oil, chapters 16.1-20:15).
o New heavens and earth (chapters 21:1-22:21).

 

[The Light]

IMO:
The animal sacrifices were intended to convey punishment for sin, from people to animals.

The flawless red heifer are the 1st thing that need to be sacrificed.

You cannot rebuild the Temple without the ashes of the flawless red heifer.

The Temple will be rebuilt soon.

 

[The Light]

IMO:
It's apocalyptic literature. The imagery is the progression of an announcement:

o Seals (presumably wax) on a scroll are removed (chapters 5:1-8:5).

The first four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24
The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24
The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24
The 7th seal is the wrath of God which contains the trumpets and vials.

All seals happen in order.....as the Word says.

o Trumpet sounds as each seal is removed (chapters 8.6-11:19).

This is incorrect. The trumpets and vials happen in the 7th seal and are the wrath of God.

o Scroll is read, condemnation ensues (chapters 12:1-25:8)

?

o Bowl judgments (presumably hot oil, chapters 16.1-20:15).

Bowl judgements happen in the 7th seal and occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets.

 

[The Light]

Thus, one can match the rider on the white horse as the coming to power of the papacy in the late 5th century / early 6th century. And he will continue throughout the next 4 church periods until he is destroyed without human hands. He does not have any arrows because he does not conquer by military means or might.

Not even the slightest chance of this.

The beast will hate the whore and make her desolate. The whore is the Church of Rome who is dressed in purple and scarlet.

Revelation 17
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

[CTK]

Not even the slightest chance of this.

The beast will hate the whore and make her desolate. The whore is the Church of Rome who is dressed in purple and scarlet.

Revelation 17
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

okay.

 

[The Light]

He does not have any arrows because he does not conquer by military means or might.

Assuming that he has no arrows is an incorrect assumption. Nowhere does the Word say he has no arrows. If the Word said he carries a gun, would you assume he has no bullets?

Scripture says he has a bow as that identifies who this is. This is the 7th king. He is AN Antichrist of the Babylonian religion who is Tammuz/Horus/Apollo/etc./etc. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus above the pyramid. The world awaits their false savior.

 

[RedLetterJoe]

Not saying that I am in full agreement with Brother Jason here, but he does provide some compelling information.
(removed. See forum rule re: new members and links.)

 

[William Barton]

The flawless red heifer are the 1st thing that need to be sacrificed.

You cannot rebuild the Temple without the ashes of the flawless red heifer.

The Temple will be rebuilt soon.

The Jews have been training priests and collecting materials to rebuild the temple. One problem is a misunderstanding of where it is supposed to be. I see Jewish people praying at the "wailing wall," failing to understand that this wall was actually part of the Roman fortress Antonia. The Romans removed every stone of the temple.

Jesus will rebuild the temple (Zechariah 6:13).

The flawless red heifer are the 1st thing that need to be sacrificed.

You cannot rebuild the Temple without the ashes of the flawless red heifer.

The Temple will be rebuilt soon.

IMO the Jews currently have misunderstandings about the temple:.
o They think the remaining wall of Fort Antonia is part of the temple.
o They think the Roman fortress tower was part of the temple.
o In fact the Romans removed every piece of the temple in 70 A.D.
o The temple was actually a distance away near the Gihone Spring.

 

[William Barton]

Let me suggest the Revelation imagery this way:

o A scroll with seven seals is opened and read, declaring Jesus king of the land.

o After the scroll is read seven trumpets sound out that Jesus has been ordained king of the land.

o After Jesus is so ordained the seven bowls describe the ensuing conflict in enforcing his kingdom.

 

[The Light]

The Jews have been training priests and collecting materials to rebuild the temple. One problem is a misunderstanding of where it is supposed to be. I see Jewish people praying at the "wailing wall," failing to understand that this wall was actually part of the Roman fortress Antonia. The Romans removed every stone of the temple.

No. The wailing wall is not part of Fort Antonia. Fort Antonia was next to the Temple mount.

The wailing is the western wall of the walls that were around the Temple on the Temple mount.

The wailing wall still has one stone upon another and is of the buildings of the Temple that Jesus was referring to.

IMO the Jews currently have misunderstandings about the temple:.
o They think the remaining wall of Fort Antonia is part of the temple.

The Jews are correct. The wailing wall is not part of Fort Antonia. The wailing wall surrounded the Temple and was on the Temple mount.

o They think the Roman fortress tower was part of the temple.

The wailing wall was not part of Fort Antonia

o In fact the Romans removed every piece of the temple in 70 A.D.

The Romans missed the wailing wall which is the western wall that surrounded the Temple on the Temple mount.

There is still one stone upon another of the buildings of the Temple.

o The temple was actually a distance away near the Gihone Spring.

Some say this.

And yet Fort Antonia was built next to the Temple to protect the Temple.

I'm more inclined to believe the Jews. Gotta believe that they knew where their own Temple was.

 

[The Light]

Let me suggest the Revelation imagery this way:

o A scroll with seven seals is opened and read, declaring Jesus king of the land.

o After the scroll is read seven trumpets sound out that Jesus has been ordained king of the land.

o After Jesus is so ordained the seven bowls describe the ensuing conflict in enforcing his kingdom.

That's nice, but unscriptural.

The seals are opened in order. The 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets and 7 vials.

The order is not 7 trumpets followed by 7 vials.

The order is the first trumpet and first vial happen, followed by the 2nd trumpet, second vial etc.

 

[William Barton]

The Light noted:

<Wailing wall not part of Antonia>

I visited Israel once, and there were people there who share your opinion, praying at the wall.

The problem is that Jesus said, "not one stone upon a stone" would be left of the temple complex (Luke 21:6).

The tour guide indicated to me it is the remains of the fortress, reluctant to do so because she did not want to get involved in a religious argument.

The temple laid a distance away near the Gihone Spring (water necessary for a variety of reasons).

 

[The Light]

The Light noted:

<Wailing wall not part of Antonia>

I visited Israel once, and there were people there who share your opinion, praying at the wall.

The problem is that Jesus said, "not one stone upon a stone" would be left of the temple complex (Luke 21:6).

Exactly. There is still one stone upon another in the buildings of the Temple.

Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

If the prophecy has been fulfilled, what sign was there when these things came to pass?

The tour guide indicated to me it is the remains of the fortress, reluctant to do so because she did not want to get involved in a religious argument.

The fortress is next to the Temple mount to protect it.

The temple laid a distance away near the Gihone Spring (water necessary for a variety of reasons).

Did your guide mention that there are underground cisterns that bring water to the Temple mount from the Gihone Spring and Solomons pools?

 

[William Barton]

<Did your guide mention that there are cisterns that bring water to the Temple mount from the Gihone Spring and Solomons pools?>

It's well known that there are ancient aquifers in Israel, water is in such short supply there. Israel gets very little annual rain.