THIRD DAY PROVES A THURSDAY CRUCIFIXION

[Grailhunter]

Again, only the meals for the weekly Sabbath required them to prepare enough food for two days. On Nisan 14, they only had to prepare enough food for the meal to be eaten that evening. Then the next day (Nisan 15 and the first festival sabbath), they were able to prepare that day the feast to be eaten that evening. Same thing with Nisan 21 (the second festival sabbath), they did not have to prepare enough food on Nisan 20 for two days.

So again, the only "Sabbath" on the Jewish calendar that required enough food to be prepared for two days because no work at all could be done on that Sabbath, not even preparing the food for the feast, was the weekly Sabbath. So the day before was always "the Preparation," because they had to prepare enough food for two days.

The restrictions for Passover and the Saturday Jewish Sabbath are easy enough for you or anyone to look up. So there is no need for us to debate them.

 

[Grailhunter]

So trying to "time" his death to the passover, or any other sacrifice in order to "link" his death to them is futile when his death fulfilled sacrifices that were offered up day in and day out throughout the year, year after year. That one sacrifice fulfilled them all.

One thing we know for sure, Christ was not crucified on the day He ate the His Last Supper. But the Jews would have normally been eating the Passover meal on the day Christ was crucified, that would be Friday before dusk. The Jewish Saturday Sabbath started Friday at dusk and in this case so did Passover.

Over the centuries there have been some confusion on which day the Last Supper occurred, and the circumstances of its occurrence. So before we go on let me explain. Traditionally in this time period, on the eve before the Passover the sacrificial lamb was slain and butchered ritually. The blood was collected ritually and applied to the doorways. (This is the Passover part of the ritual of the plaque of the first born, but this changed…Deuteronomy 16:2-6 The change was that the sacrificial lamb was slain at the doorway of the tabernacle….and then the Temple….This means that in the biblical era the Passover was a gathering of Jews at the Temple…

Then the entire lamb was cooked over a fire and eaten entirely, with unleavened bread. (The sacrifice could be either an unblemished goat or lamb. You can read about this ritual in Exodus chapter 12.) This is not exactly what happened during the evening of the Last Supper. But the Gospels use the term Passover meal to refer to the Last Supper and also reference the Passover lamb being sacrificed on Thursday evening, from there, confusion ensued. Neither the Jews or Christian call the Jewish Passover meal the Last Supper they are two different meals.

The Jewish Passover which lasts around 7 days, that year occurred on Saturday April 8th 30 AD, and started at dusk (As the Full Moon rose) on April 7th. “The Jewish day” starts at dusk. So the Jewish Sabbath and the beginning of Passover occurring on the same day, that year, at dusk. Confusing? Our days shift at midnight…Jewish days shift at dusk…dusk begins the new day.

Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) shows a full Moon on the evening of April 7th when the Passover began at dusk. So the Passover for that year occurred on the Jewish Sabbath...Saturday but started on Friday at dusk. Two Holy events occurring on the same day. Some refer to this as a High Holy Day, High Day, or High Sabbath for the Jews. John 19:31 The Lambs would have been killed on Friday, the afternoon of the 7th of April. But Christ would not be alive Friday evening. So in this instance there was an honorary Passover meal for Christ that we call the Last Supper because it was Christ’s last supper. As I said, we know that Christ did not eat the Last Supper on the day He was crucified. If we look at Matthew 16:21-25 and Yeshua's disagreement with Peter, we can see that He knew what was going to happen and when.

He was the symbolic and divine sacrificial lamb and He was slain around 3:00 pm on the Friday, the 7th of April, around the time that the actual sacrificial lambs were being slain. So the Passover dinner for Him was held on the evening of the 6th of April...Thursday and they had a sacrificial lamb for His Last Supper. The next day, the actual Passover lambs would be slaughtered and eaten on Friday before dusk for the Passover dinners. Christ was the sacrificial lamb for the New Covenant and He was crucified during the day on Friday, about the time the sacrificial lambs for Passover were being killed. So Christ would not be observing the normal processes of the Passover and the Passover meal, and as it turned out, the same was true for the Apostles because they would be in hiding, not sacrificing lambs at the Temple. They may have arranged for food to be brought to them, but they probably were not sacrificing lambs while Christ was being crucified.

The meal that Christ attended was a meal that the Gospels refer to as the Passover meal, a Seder meal, put it was not the actual Jewish Passover meal. As I explained, the next day was the Jewish day of preparation for the Passover...Friday...and the Jewish Passover meal would occur then. This was the day that Christ was slain. Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, 31, and 42, all confirm that the day that Christ was crucified was on the Day of Preparation, which was Friday, April 7th 30 AD. John 18:28 also proves that early Friday morning, the day of Christ’s crucifixion, when Christ was taken to the Praetorium the Apostles had not eaten the actual Passover meal yet. The morning cock had crowed for Peter John 18:27 So when Christ was before Pilate in the Praetorium the Apostles did not enter because they did not want to be defiled because they wanted to participate in the actual Passover meal before the start of Passover. John 18:28 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. John 19:31 Another mystery solved....

Why April 7th 30 AD?
The death of Herod is well documented, so is the date of his successors. So in order to include the story of the Herod, the Magi, the Star, and death of the innocences, Christ's birth has to happen before Herod's death. March 12th 4 BC. Now if you go to add this up from Christ's birth to the day of his Crucifixion, keep in mind that you lose a year between 1 BC and 1 AD. No year zero, so one year passes between April 1 BC and April 1 AD. So in 30 AD Christ would have been 33 years old, give or take a few months.

We can consider April 3rd 33 AD, but Christ would be 36 years old and since it was said that Christ started His ministry when He was 30 years old, that would make His ministry 6 years long. So odds are, it is 30 AD.

Now the calculation for Passover is based on the cycle of the moon. And goes like this...Passover will occur on the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Most of the time that is in April on our calendar. Then Easter is the next Sunday after that.

So Christ is crucified on Friday April 7th 30 AD and then the Passover starts that evening at dusk along with the Jewish Sabbath. That night has a Full Moon. And this goes along with the double Sabbath tradition, ie Passover falling on the Jewish Sabbath, Saturday. Keep in mind that the Hebrew month always started on the New Moon, so the Passover would “always” occur 15 days later on the full Moon….that does not mean that the Passover would always occur on the Sabbath Saturday, because the new month did not reset the days of the week. (Jewish Sabbath Saturday…different than the Christian Sunday.) Hebrew days of the month vs Gregorian days of the month, there is a confusion factor there, but I will try to explain.

 

[Grailhunter]

But the Sabbath fell on Nisan 16 that year.

Nope.
The Passover always occurs on a full moon.
On April 7th 30 AD Friday, Yeshua was crucified. At dusk was the beginning of Passover and the Saturday Jewish Sabbath. That was Nisan 15.
The New Moon resets the Jewish month. Passover occurs at the first full moon after the spring Vernal equinox.
The full moon always occurs Nisan 15.....or in other words 15 days after the New Moon.

The confusion for some people is that our day stops at midnight.
The days in the Jewish month stops at dusk and the new day start.
So as we count Passover starts the 14th day of the month, but as the Jews counted it, it started dusk on the 14th.....the 14th day end and 15th day starts.

 

[Pilgrimer]

One thing we know for sure, Christ was not crucified on the day He ate the His Last Supper

Jesus ate his last supper on Thursday evening, which was the beginning of Nisan 15. He was crucified the next day, Friday, which was still Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

But the Jews would have normally been eating the Passover meal on the day Christ was crucified

They would have been eating one of the seven passover meals the evening after Jesus was crucified, the second meal of the passover. And the next evening they would have eaten the third meal of the passover, while Jesus' body "rested" on the Sabbath in the tomb.

on the eve before the Passover the sacrificial lamb was slain and butchered ritually.

It would help if you would use Biblical dates. When you say "the eve before the Passover," I don't really know precisely what you mean by that. The lambs were slain on the Passover, on Nisan 14: "In the fourteenth day at evening is the Lord's Passover." The 14th Nisan is the Passover, when the Passover sacrifice was observed.

The Passover lambs were eaten after sunset which was the beginning of Nisan 15 and the first meal of Unleavened Bread. Both the slaying of the lamb in the afternoon of Nisan 14 and the meal eaten that night on Nisan 15, were on the say week day, Thursday, and on our same calendar date (April 6) but on the Jewish calendar the lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th and they were eaten that night at the start of the 15th.

The Jewish Passover which lasts around 7 days, that year occurred on Saturday April 8th 30 AD, and started at dusk (As the Full Moon rose) on April 7th

But you have yet to provide any evidence to support that dating. Based on when the astronomical new moon occurred that month, the Passover would have begun at sunset Wednesday (the beginning of Nisan 14, April 6 on our calendar) and again, according to NASA, the full moon that spring occurred on Thursday night, April 6 on our calendar, Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

Where do you get those dates from?

Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) shows a full Moon on the evening of April 7th

Actually, no it doesn't. I am attaching a snip of NASA's catalog that lists the moon's phases for that year and you can see that the full moon of the spring month actually occurred on the night of April 6 at 7:43 p.m. That was a Thursday night and that was when Jesus was praying in the moonlit garden of Gethsamane before he was arrested.

I think you have all the mechanics correct, you've obviously done a lot of study, but your dating is off because it's based on the assumption that John was saying they had not yet eaten the first passover meal when there were actually seven meals and Matthew, Mark, and Luke specifically stated Jesus ate the Passover, which could only have been the first meal on Thursday, April 6, the beginning of Nisan 15.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus ate his last supper on Thursday evening, which was the beginning of Nisan 15. He was crucified the next day, Friday, which was still Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

Nope Nisan 15 began on Friday at dusk. By that time Yeshua's body was taken off the cross.
That night was the night of the full moon.....NASA can track it. The beginning of Passover always start on the night of the Full Moon.

Again this is something that people can look up....
The Passover always starts on the night of a full moon.
On April 7th 30 AD Friday, Yeshua was crucified. At dusk was the beginning of Passover and the Saturday Jewish Sabbath. That was Nisan 15.
The New Moon resets the Jewish month. Passover occurs at the first full moon after the spring Vernal equinox.
The full moon always occurs Nisan 15.....or in other words 15 days after the New Moon.

The confusion for some people is that our day stops at midnight.
The days in the Jewish month stops at dusk and the new day start.
So as we count Passover starts the 14th day of the month, but as the Jews counted it, it started dusk on the 14th.....the 14th day end and 15th day starts.

 

[Grailhunter]

They would have been eating one of the seven passover meals the evening after Jesus was crucified, the second meal of the passover. And the next evening they would have eaten the third meal of the passover, while Jesus' body "rested" on the Sabbath in the tomb.

Nope

Number of Passover Meals (Seder Nights)​

During Passover, the number of Passover meals — specifically Seder nights — depends on your location:

• In Israel: There is one Seder — on the first night of Passover, which is the 15th of Nisan Chabad.org.
• In the Diaspora (outside Israel): There are two Seders — on the first night and the second night of Passover.

The Passover meal (Pesach in Hebrew), known as the Seder, is a key part of the Jewish festival of Passover, which celebrates the Israelites' escape from slavery in Egypt. While traditions vary across different communities, the Seder follows a structured order filled with symbolic foods, prayers and storytelling. Passover lasts seven or eight days, depending on the location. While the Seder takes place on the first night in Israel, in many other countries, there are two Seders on the first and second night of Pesach. Some Passover meal traditions are lively and theatrical, with songs and skits, while others are brief and focused on the meal itself. No matter the style, certain customs and symbols remain central.

 

[Grailhunter]

It would help if you would use Biblical dates. When you say "the eve before the Passover," I don't really know precisely what you mean by that. The lambs were slain on the Passover, on Nisan 14: "In the fourteenth day at evening is the Lord's Passover." The 14th Nisan is the Passover, when the Passover sacrifice was observed.

The Passover lambs were eaten after sunset which was the beginning of Nisan 15 and the first meal of Unleavened Bread. Both the slaying of the lamb in the afternoon of Nisan 14 and the meal eaten that night on Nisan 15, were on the say week day, Thursday, and on our same calendar date (April 6) but on the Jewish calendar the lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th and they were eaten that night at the start of the 15th.

Nope.
You said----> The lambs were slain on the Passover, on Nisan 14: "In the fourteenth day at evening is the Lord's Passover." The 14th Nisan is the Passover, when the Passover sacrifice was observed.
They are sacrificed and ritually slaughtered, cooked and eaten before dusk on the Nisan 14. But Nisan 14 is not Passover....That is "The preparation day."


Like
Dislike

Timing of the Last Supper and the Day of Preparation​

The Last Supper and the Day of Preparation are not the same day, but they are closely linked in the biblical narrative.
The Day of Preparation
In Judaism, the Day of Preparation was the day before the Sabbath, when people made final preparations for rest and worship on the Sabbath. It was a time to prepare food, complete work, and prepare for the holy day Bible Gateway+1. In the Gospels, Jesus was crucified on this day (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14). In Passover week, this day also coincided with the preparation for the Passover sacrifices, when the Passover lambs were slaughtered (John 19:14) GotQuestions.org+1.
The Last Supper
The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew 26:17–29; Mark 14:12–25; Luke 22:7–22) describe the Last Supper as a Passover meal eaten with Jesus and His disciples. This meal took place on the first day of Unleavened Bread, the evening before the Day of Preparation www.answerthebible.com+1. The Passover lamb was eaten on the 14th of Nisan, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread began the next day Bible Gateway.
Chronology

• Thursday night: Last Supper (Passover meal)
• Friday (Day of Preparation): Jesus was crucified; Passover lambs slaughtered; preparations for the Sabbath GotQuestions.org+1
• Saturday: Sabbath
• Sunday: Resurrection

Why the confusion?
John 13:1 says the Last Supper was “just before the Passover Feast,” while the Synoptics call it the Passover meal. This difference may be due to:

• Different ways of counting days in first-century Judaism (sunrise-to-sunrise vs. sunset-to-sunset) Bible Hub
• John’s use of “Preparation of the Passover” to mean the day before the official Passover sacrifices, while the Synoptics focus on the Passover meal itself.

When did the Last Supper occur?
The Last Supper was not the Day of Preparation — it was the evening meal before the Day of Preparation. The Day of Preparation was the Friday before the Sabbath, when Jesus was crucified and the Passover lambs were sacrificed.

 

[Grailhunter]

But you have yet to provide any evidence to support that dating. Based on when the astronomical new moon occurred that month, the Passover would have begun at sunset Wednesday (the beginning of Nisan 14, April 6 on our calendar) and again, according to NASA, the full moon that spring occurred on Thursday night, April 6 on our calendar, Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

Where do you get those dates from?

I have already explained this. Post 22
The date is figured off the Year Yeshua was born and approximately 33 years.
Herod died in March 4 BC, Yeshua was born shortly before that.
Also since Passover starts on the evening of the full moon, NASA can provide that data.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus ate his last supper on Thursday evening, which was the beginning of Nisan 15. He was crucified the next day, Friday, which was still Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

They would have been eating one of the seven passover meals the evening after Jesus was crucified, the second meal of the passover. And the next evening they would have eaten the third meal of the passover, while Jesus' body "rested" on the Sabbath in the tomb.

It would help if you would use Biblical dates. When you say "the eve before the Passover," I don't really know precisely what you mean by that. The lambs were slain on the Passover, on Nisan 14: "In the fourteenth day at evening is the Lord's Passover." The 14th Nisan is the Passover, when the Passover sacrifice was observed.

The Passover lambs were eaten after sunset which was the beginning of Nisan 15 and the first meal of Unleavened Bread. Both the slaying of the lamb in the afternoon of Nisan 14 and the meal eaten that night on Nisan 15, were on the say week day, Thursday, and on our same calendar date (April 6) but on the Jewish calendar the lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th and they were eaten that night at the start of the 15th.

But you have yet to provide any evidence to support that dating. Based on when the astronomical new moon occurred that month, the Passover would have begun at sunset Wednesday (the beginning of Nisan 14, April 6 on our calendar) and again, according to NASA, the full moon that spring occurred on Thursday night, April 6 on our calendar, Nisan 15 on the Jewish calendar.

Where do you get those dates from?

Actually, no it doesn't. I am attaching a snip of NASA's catalog that lists the moon's phases for that year and you can see that the full moon of the spring month actually occurred on the night of April 6 at 7:43 p.m. That was a Thursday night and that was when Jesus was praying in the moonlit garden of Gethsamane before he was arrested.

I think you have all the mechanics correct, you've obviously done a lot of study, but your dating is off because it's based on the assumption that John was saying they had not yet eaten the first passover meal when there were actually seven meals and Matthew, Mark, and Luke specifically stated Jesus ate the Passover, which could only have been the first meal on Thursday, April 6, the beginning of Nisan 15.

From NASA's website. It show Friday night as the Full Moon. The Jewish day start Friday at dusk.

 

[Pilgrimer]

From NASA's website. It show Friday night as the Full Moon. The Jewish day start Friday at dusk.

Here is the link to the datasets of NASA's "Six Millennium Catalog of Lunar Phases" published on AstroPixels
NASA dataset
Could you please provide a link to the chart you posted of the lunar phases so I can verify it? Obviously, one of us has some wrong information.

 

[Pilgrimer]

I have already explained this. Post 22
The date is figured off the Year Yeshua was born and approximately 33 years.
Herod died in March 4 BC, Yeshua was born shortly before that.
Also since Passover starts on the evening of the full moon, NASA can provide that data.

The year Jesus was born does not define the dates or days on which the Passover was observed. When Nisan (and every month for that matter) began was based solely on when the spotters in Jerusalem saw the first sliver of a crescent of the new moon.

So while I have done extensive study on dating the birth of Jesus, and I agree with you that it was shortly before the death of Herod in late March of 4 B.C., it doesn't help us pinpoint the chronology of Passion Week which was solely determined by the observation of the new moon.

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is the link to the datasets of NASA's "Six Millennium Catalog of Lunar Phases" published on AstroPixels
NASA dataset
Could you please provide a link to the chart you posted of the lunar phases so I can verify it? Obviously, one of us has some wrong information.
View attachment 84783

I am still looking for the one I used but here is one.

Moon Phase Calculator: Calendar, Path, Special Events

Interactive calculator/calendar to track moon phases. Moon path, visualizations, supermoons, blue moons, moonrise/sets, sky position, and more for any location.

dqydj.com

 

[Grailhunter]

The year Jesus was born does not define the dates or days on which the Passover was observed. When Nisan (and every month for that matter) began was based solely on when the spotters in Jerusalem saw the first sliver of a crescent of the new moon.

So while I have done extensive study on dating the birth of Jesus, and I agree with you that it was shortly before the death of Herod in late March of 4 B.C., it doesn't help us pinpoint the chronology of Passion Week which was solely determined by the observation of the new moon.

We know that Yeshua was 33 years and some months old when He was crucified.
Yeshua was probably born a in late 5 BC or early 4 BC. If we count 33 years forward, remembering that there is no year zero between BC and AD, we come up with 30 AD. And Him being 33, plus or minus a few months old.
And from the Bible we know that Yeshua was crucified the day before Passover and the Sabbath that year.
So we come up with April 7th 30 AD.