When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

[1stCenturyLady]

Adam and Even did not know they were naked when Eve first ate of the forbidden tree, but their eyes were opened only after Adam committed a willful sin against the commandment of God and knowingly and willfully sinned against God, Himself. There is a difference in sin in the eyes of God. From that one willful sin man' clean human nature mutated and acquired Satan's sin nature, a "work" of Satan. Unintentional Sin vs. Willful Sin. In the Old Testament Numbers 15:22-36 shows that there WAS a sacrifice for unintentional sin, but NO sacrifice for a willful sin against a law of God. They were stoned, or at the least sent out of the camp to die alone in the blistering hot wilderness with no Cloud to cover them, and no pillar of Fire to warm them at night.

1 John 3:4-9 addresses first the category of sin Jesus takes away. Lawlessness. Lawlessness is willfully breaking a commandment of God. And ends with the works of Satan are destroyed and the born again of the Spirit no longer has any desire to commit willful lawlessness. The sin nature of Satan was taken away including the desire to sin against God, Himself.

For those who already have the knowledge that the Law brought to the children of Israel by Moses a consciousness of sin as play acted by Paul in Romans 7:9 and 14-25, now read Hebrews 10:2 of those same people AFTER being cleansed, sanctified and justified by the Spirit of Christ.

"2 For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins."

This is because the sin nature of Satan has been destroyed. 1 John 3:8-9 "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

A true born again of the Spirit of Christ does not have two natures.
A true born again of the Spirit of Christ does not any longer have a sin nature.
A true born again of the Spirit of Christ with a clean nature may now partake of the divine nature of God.

Do not believe the false teaching that any of the above is false. Demons that work for Satan want you to go against your own conscience where God has written his laws on your new nature so that you love what God loves, but HATES what God hates and cannot do them.

Immature fruit which a new born again of the Spirit believer may do even while walking in the Spirit, commit infractions due to them UNINTENTIONALLY, and the blood of Jesus cleanses them, keeping us in fellowship with God. 1 John 1:7 These are the lesser type of sin (against fruit, not against God's Laws written on your own heart.) Mind you, not everyone going to church has been actually born again of the Spirit. You know what the laws of God are, thus, committed willfully and KNOWingly. Test yourself to see if you are born again, Galatians 5:19-21, for Jesus said, "you MUST be born again of the Spirit." Don't let Jesus have to say to you, "I never knew you."

1 John 3:9 does not include the word, "PRACTICE" that was added because they didn't recognize the SUBJECT/CONTEXT in verse 4, "lawlessness." A born again of the Spirit Christian CANNOT COMMIT murder even ONCE, let alone practice murder. See how stupid some old church fathers were without the Spirit guiding them into all truth?

 

[RedLetterJoe]

Adam and Even did not know they were naked when Eve first ate of the forbidden tree, but their eyes were opened only after Adam committed a willful sin against the commandment of God and knowingly and willfully sinned against God, Himself. There is a difference in sin in the eyes of God. From that one willful sin man' clean human nature mutated and acquired Satan's sin nature, a "work" of Satan. Unintentional Sin vs. Willful Sin. In the Old Testament Numbers 15:22-36 shows that there WAS a sacrifice for unintentional sin, but NO sacrifice for a willful sin against a law of God. They were stoned, or at the least sent out of the camp to die alone in the blistering hot wilderness with no Cloud to cover them, and no pillar of Fire to warm them at night.

1 John 3:4-9 addresses first the category of sin Jesus takes away. Lawlessness. Lawlessness is willfully breaking a commandment of God. And ends with the works of Satan are destroyed and the born again of the Spirit no longer has any desire to commit willful lawlessness. The sin nature of Satan was taken away including the desire to sin against God, Himself.

For those who already have the knowledge that the Law brought to the children of Israel by Moses a consciousness of sin as play acted by Paul in Romans 7:9 and 14-25, now read Hebrews 10:2 of those same people AFTER being cleansed, sanctified and justified by the Spirit of Christ.

"2 For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins."

This is because the sin nature of Satan has been destroyed. 1 John 3:8-9 "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

And what of the flesh? If we are to crucify the flesh daily, by implication, the flesh is still very much alive. Paul made claims to a clear conscience, he also made it quite clear that there was a law in his members that when he desired to do good, evil was ever present.

The body of death he called it.

The soul and spirit have been divided, but they remain housed within the same body of flesh. Treasure in an earthen vessel.

As long as the spirit and soul of man is housed in this body of death, we will continue to sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And what of the flesh? If we are to crucify the flesh daily, by implication, the flesh is still very much alive. Paul made claims to a clear conscience, he also made it quite clear that there was a law in his members that when he desired to do good, evil was ever present.

The body of death he called it.

The soul and spirit have been divided, but they remain housed within the same body of flesh. Treasure in an earthen vessel.

As long as the spirit and soul of man is housed in this body of death, we will continue to sin.

Paul uses "the flesh" in two ways. One is our body of flesh and bones. But the other is the inner part of our body, the spirit and soul that make up our nature. That is what is born again of the Spirit, not our body. At least, not yet. Our body doesn't make up our personality or character. How can we still be alive if Paul says in Romans 8:9 that we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us if Paul is only speaking of our body of death, that of course is dying as we speak?

I tried finding any verse you were speaking of and couldn't find any. Can you provide a Scripture that you are talking about.

 

[RedLetterJoe]

Paul uses "the flesh" in two ways. One is our body of flesh and bones. But the other is the inner part of our body, the spirit and soul that make up our nature. That is what is born again of the Spirit, not our body. At least, not yet. Our body doesn't make up our personality or character. How can we still be alive if Paul says in Romans 8:9 that we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us if Paul is only speaking of our body of death, that of course is dying as we speak?

I tried finding any verse you were speaking of and couldn't find any. Can you provide a Scripture that you are talking about.

Sorry, I posted all the verses I referenced but it was too long. I tried again, more issues.
Galatians Romans 2 Corinthians Hebrews
That should get you pointed in the right direction

 

[marks]

And what of the flesh? If we are to crucify the flesh daily, by implication, the flesh is still very much alive. Paul made claims to a clear conscience, he also made it quite clear that there was a law in his members that when he desired to do good, evil was ever present.

The body of death he called it.

The soul and spirit have been divided, but they remain housed within the same body of flesh. Treasure in an earthen vessel.

As long as the spirit and soul of man is housed in this body of death, we will continue to sin.

Sin lives in this flesh body, and so long as we are in it, we have to deal with it. Just the same, as we walk in the Spirit, we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We walk in the Spirit in the same faith by which we are saved, keep the faith!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Being regenerated in the Spirit is a first step toward a full salvation. It remains for the soul to be saved...working out that salvation with fear and trembling....learning wisdom and the fear of the Lord...and true humility. Most never get beyond the initial phase of salvation thus frustrating the purpose of grace. To have a full salvation one must go to God in full surrender to get "grace on grace"...or the full measure of grace that crucifies the flesh in order to walk in victory...walking in His resurrection life. There is no ultimate victory in life unless one goes to the cross to be crucified in the outer man sin nature....thus freeing the inner man of faith to be EMPOWERED to walk in the Spirit in the kingdom realm.

 

[marks]

Most never get beyond the initial phase of salvation thus frustrating the purpose of grace.

Galatians 2:17-21 KJV
17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[PS95]

Paul uses "the flesh" in two ways. One is our body of flesh and bones. But the other is the inner part of our body, the spirit and soul that make up our nature. That is what is born again of the Spirit, not our body. At least, not yet. Our body doesn't make up our personality or character. How can we still be alive if Paul says in Romans 8:9 that we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us if Paul is only speaking of our body of death, that of course is dying as we speak?

I tried finding any verse you were speaking of and couldn't find any. Can you provide a Scripture that you are talking about.

Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.
Col 3:5

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Gal 5:17


So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. / For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. Gal 5:16-17

to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Eph 2:22-24

for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Gal 6:8

But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. Ro 7:23

Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. / Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. …Col 3:5-10

Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh Ro 13:14

“Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” matt 26:41

What causes conflicts and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from the passions at war within you? James 4:1

As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance 1 Peter 1:14

 

[marks]

Paul uses "the flesh" in two ways.

Actually he only uses it one way, consistent with it's normal meaning, sarx, the meat. This refers to our physical body, and things in relation to it, such as,

Acts 2:30 KJV
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This refers to Jesus' physical lineage.

I challenge you to examine every usage of Sarx to see what the context demands. In every place where the context specifies a meaning, this is the meaning. You have no basis upon which to introduce a new meaning not used in Scripture, and that will only lead to error.

When we say something has a nature, you don't find that nature apart from the thing itself. What we call "sin nature" (a term NOT found in Scripture) is in fact the properties of our physical being, the corruption of our flesh.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And what of the flesh? If we are to crucify the flesh daily, by implication, the flesh is still very much alive. Paul made claims to a clear conscience, he also made it quite clear that there was a law in his members that when he desired to do good, evil was ever present.

He also wrote that while he wasn't aware of doing anything wrong, that didn't mean he hadn't. He recognized only Jesus could judge Him, only Jesus knows him sufficiently. He didn't even know himself sufficiently to judge whether or not he always did right.

Much love!

 

[Gray_Joy]

I think Jesus tells us when we are born again and his holy spirit enters into us through grace,the sin nature becomes nearly opaque. Not as present or influential.

I think if we have a sin nature first,rebirth in Christ does away with that.
I'm thinking of John 3 and John,chapters 14 through 16.

 

[marks]

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Romans 7:23-25 KJV
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

"members" is literally "body parts".

The body of this death.

Corruptible puts on incorruptibility, just like mortality putting on immortality.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sorry, I posted all the verses I referenced but it was too long. I tried again, more issues.
Galatians Romans 2 Corinthians Hebrews
That should get you pointed in the right direction

Not really. My verses all say Jesus did not leave us with a sin nature, but are clean. That doesn't mean we don't have free will, but we no longer want to sin IF we keep abiding in Him and do not keep ourselves. 1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him."

Do you agree with these verses. Focus on them and tell me what you think they mean to you.

Hebrews 10:2 from OP "For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins."
1 John 5:18 above.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." From OP

After you deal with these verses, THEN we can discuss your verses and what you think they mean.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Actually he only uses it one way, consistent with it's normal meaning, sarx, the meat. This refers to our physical body, and things in relation to it, such as,

Acts 2:30 KJV
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This refers to Jesus' physical lineage.

I challenge you to examine every usage of Sarx to see what the context demands. In every place where the context specifies a meaning, this is the meaning. You have no basis upon which to introduce a new meaning not used in Scripture, and that will only lead to error.

When we say something has a nature, you don't find that nature apart from the thing itself. What we call "sin nature" (a term NOT found in Scripture) is in fact the properties of our physical being, the corruption of our flesh.

Much love!

What does flesh in these two verses mean to you? The body? How can we not be in our body and still live? Or do you believe verse 9 is after our death? I've known you a long time and I will be flabbergasted if you believe Paul means we are not in the flesh only after we are dead.

Romans 8:8-9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Romans 7:23-25 KJV
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

"members" is literally "body parts".

The body of this death.

Corruptible puts on incorruptibility, just like mortality putting on immortality.

Much love!

I didn't know you believe we are still under the Old Covenant and therefore are UNDER the Law?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think Jesus tells us when we are born again and his holy spirit enters into us through grace,the sin nature becomes nearly opaque. Not as present or influential.

I think if we have a sin nature first,rebirth in Christ does away with that.
I'm thinking of John 3 and John,chapters 14 through 16.

Not sure where in the Bible you are referring to when you say the sin nature becomes nearly OPAQUE? Some would consider that being black with sin, when in reality our born again nature is clean and CLEAR. John 15:3

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. / For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. Gal 5:16-17

Galatians 5:17 has caused many problems because the publishers of the Bible printed spirit with a capital "S." Our spirit is our mind, and our soul is our heart and conscience. Think about it. Galatians 5:17 is the same as Romans 7:25 before Romans 8:2 that shows freedom from both the law and sin. Romans 7:14-25 is OLD COVENANT living when they had to try to keep the law with a dirty sin nature that has not been born again of the Spirit.

R.7:25 So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
G.5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the (mind) spirit, and the (mind) spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Romans 7:19-20 as Paul is play acting he is still under the Old Covenant with an intact sin nature. "19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Being regenerated in the Spirit is a first step toward a full salvation. It remains for the soul to be saved...working out that salvation with fear and trembling....learning wisdom and the fear of the Lord...and true humility. Most never get beyond the initial phase of salvation thus frustrating the purpose of grace. To have a full salvation one must go to God in full surrender to get "grace on grace"...or the full measure of grace that crucifies the flesh in order to walk in victory...walking in His resurrection life. There is no ultimate victory in life unless one goes to the cross to be crucified in the outer man sin nature....thus freeing the inner man of faith to be EMPOWERED to walk in the Spirit in the kingdom realm.

Jesus has tried to make salvation as easy as possible. "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Hebrews 12:2 says He is both that AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. You say "grace on grace" and you are right when you know the meaning of grace is the power of God, not unmerited favor. Jesus supernaturally cleanses our sin nature, taking away the first type of sin, lawlessness. 1 John 3:4-5. He does this supernaturally. (I literally felt something rise out of my body when I was born again and then filled with His Spirit in 1977.) All desire to break a commandment of God is gone. I noticed the change immediately. This is sinlessness called righteousness. Rev. 22:11b

Then as the Finisher of our faith Jesus only asks one thing of us. To keep abiding in Him and that includes obeying His Spirit within us. What happens next when you abide in Him is a longer period of time to mature all the fruit of the Spirit. Peter speaks of this in 2 Peter 1:5-11, and once mature we will "never stumble." That is perfection. Also called holiness. Again, in Revelation 22:11b

The who process is completed by Jesus from "faith to faith" Romans 1:16-17

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I see a few who do not believe Jesus destroyed the works of Satan. Not all.

Don't you know that this body is like a floppy puppet? It is NOT sinning on its own. That is why it doesn't have to be born again now, but can wait until our resurrection from the dead. What is born again NOW is our nature, the puppet masters! The "old man."

I'll include everyone to not shine a light on those who slap Jesus in the face.

cc: @RedLetterJoe @marks @Episkopos @PS95 @Gray_Joy

I praise Jesus for His supernatural life working within me. I could do nothing on my own. He did it all. And only He will know when He has completed the good work He started.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Not sure where in the Bible you are referring to when you say the sin nature becomes nearly OPAQUE? Some would consider that being black with sin, when in reality our born again nature is clean and CLEAR. John 15:3

I used the wrong word. Thank you.
I was trying to communicate that I think the sin nature becomes vaguely discernable in the born again holy spirit filled believer.

Thanks again.