The Gospel for today so why the confusion ?

[PeterAndroz]

I know you probably won't listen, but The Holy Spirit has led me to say this anyway.

The doctrine of men you are pushing is called Hyper-Dispensationalism, or Hyper-Grace.

That doctrine of men began in the late 19th century from certain Protestants like the British scholar E.W. Bullinger who preached that the Church actually began with Apostle Paul's ministry. Bulllinger, though an excellent Bible scholar, held to John Darby's false 1830's Pre-trib Rapture and Dispensationalist theories about Israel. That's why the doctrine is called 'Hyper-Dispensationalism'.

Darby's 1830's theory of Dispensationalism includes the false idea that the Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the tribulation, while leaving the nation of Israel to fend for itself through the trib. Then the nation of Israel will be established as a separate entity apart from Christ's Church when Jesus returns with His saints. That is not... how it is written in God's Word.

What is written in God's Word, is that Christ's Church will go through the "great tribulation", because Jesus said He comes AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints. And at that coming by Lord Jesus He brings all His 'faithful' Church to Jerusalem on earth to reign over the unsaved for a "thousand years". It is then that He will separate the faithful from the non-believers, on earth He will do this. And those of us who remain faithful waiting on Him will reign with Him over those unsaved nations as He promised. And His reign will be from the beloved city Jerusalem, called the "camp of the saints" in Revelation 20.

U said I know you probably won't listen, but The Holy Spirit has led me to say this anyway.
++
In that case that same HS will help you to understand this :_
++
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The confusion c/- ignorance continues.
What's so hard to understand ?
1. Paul teaches the saving Gospel for today
2. Who gave him the authority ? Christ
3. The other Apostles knew it
4. Today we are saved differently than at Pentecost
5. Today we are the Body of Christ - Church
Watch the following from 12:55 onwards.
Ps, I bet most won't !!!
.

.
.
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Brakelite]

“12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ”
Revelation 22:12-15, 18-20 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[PeterAndroz]

“12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ”
Revelation 22:12-15, 18-20 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Saved believers of the "Body of Christ won't be there, instead they go to the Judgement Seat of Christ :-
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[PeterAndroz]

It is not about doing enough works to earn our salvation as the result. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so the way to tell that Jesus is giving someone the gift of saving someone from not being a doer of the Law of God is if they are a doer of it.

Today, we are saved from our sin by trusting the death, burial, resurrection of Christ as taught by Christ through Paul.
If you believe otherwise then list the verses where Christ teaches that Matt, John Peter have the same authority >>>today as Paul does <<<
---
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Soyeong]

Today, we are saved from our sin by trusting the death, burial, resurrection of Christ as taught by Christ through Paul.
If you believe otherwise then list the verses where Christ teaches that Matt, John Peter have the same authority >>>today as Paul does <<<

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to trust in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to he Law of God (Acts 21:20), which is in accordance with Jesus intrinsically saving us from not being doers of it by graciously teaching us to experience being doers of it. I believe that what Christ, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul taught were in accordance with each other.

---
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23). In Romans 15:4, Paul said that OT Scriptures were written for our instruction, and in Romans 15:18-19, he fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles into obedience to it in word and in deed. In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17, and Romans 10:16, they all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel.

What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++

The Bible clearly refers to those who are Jews, Greeks slaves, free, male, or female, which includes Paul, who never stopped identifying as a Jew (Acts 21:39, 22:3), so he was not denying the reality of those distinctions, but rather he was denying that they gave someone a higher status when it comes to being in Christ.

The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++

The Law of God was never given a a way of becoming righteous even as the result of having perfect obedience to it, but rather it was given to describe the behavior of someone who is righteous as it describes the behavior of Christ.

 

[PeterAndroz]

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to trust in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to he Law of God (Acts 21:20), which is in accordance with Jesus intrinsically saving us from not being doers of it by graciously teaching us to experience being doers of it. I believe that what Christ, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul taught were in accordance with each other.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23). In Romans 15:4, Paul said that OT Scriptures were written for our instruction, and in Romans 15:18-19, he fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles into obedience to it in word and in deed. In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17, and Romans 10:16, they all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel.


The Bible clearly refers to those who are Jews, Greeks slaves, free, male, or female, which includes Paul, who never stopped identifying as a Jew (Acts 21:39, 22:3), so he was not denying the reality of those distinctions, but rather he was denying that they gave someone a higher status when it comes to being in Christ.


The Law of God was never given a a way of becoming righteous even as the result of having perfect obedience to it, but rather it was given to describe the behavior of someone who is righteous as it describes the behavior of Christ.

One request at a time
Paul (Romans to Philemon)
List the verses that teach the "12" Matt, John, Peter etc have the same authority as Paul does to believers 'today'

 

[Brakelite]

One request at a time
Paul (Romans to Philemon)
List the verses that teach the "12" Matt, John, Peter etc have the same authority as Paul does to believers 'today'

“16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. ”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[PeterAndroz]

“16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. ”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Correct and we are commanded to STUDY & RIGHTLY DIVIDE it.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
eg Correctly apply the relevant Scripture to the relevant audience/age.

 

[Brakelite]

eg Correctly apply the relevant Scripture to the relevant audience/age.

The appropriate gospel for the people of today is Revelation 14:6-12

 

[PeterAndroz]

The appropriate gospel for the people of today is Revelation 14:6-12

What verses do you believe teach how a person today is saved ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

I know you probably won't listen, but The Holy Spirit has led me to say this anyway.

The doctrine of men you are pushing is called Hyper-Dispensationalism, or Hyper-Grace.

That doctrine of men began in the late 19th century from certain Protestants like the British scholar E.W. Bullinger who preached that the Church actually began with Apostle Paul's ministry. Bulllinger, though an excellent Bible scholar, held to John Darby's false 1830's Pre-trib Rapture and Dispensationalist theories about Israel. That's why the doctrine is called 'Hyper-Dispensationalism'.

Darby's 1830's theory of Dispensationalism includes the false idea that the Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the tribulation, while leaving the nation of Israel to fend for itself through the trib. Then the nation of Israel will be established as a separate entity apart from Christ's Church when Jesus returns with His saints. That is not... how it is written in God's Word.

What is written in God's Word, is that Christ's Church will go through the "great tribulation", because Jesus said He comes AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints. And at that coming by Lord Jesus He brings all His 'faithful' Church to Jerusalem on earth to reign over the unsaved for a "thousand years". It is then that He will separate the faithful from the non-believers, on earth He will do this. And those of us who remain faithful waiting on Him will reign with Him over those unsaved nations as He promised. And His reign will be from the beloved city Jerusalem, called the "camp of the saints" in Revelation 20.

Do you reject the saving Gospel as taught by Christ to Paul ?
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
It's a simple YES or NO question, not hard at all
..
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
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The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[stevesonthebay]

Does not the bible say faith without works is dead.

The problem I see is that some may think faith alone is enough and never put their faith to the test. It is putting faith into action that makes it real.

Anyone can claim they believe in Christ and in fact this has become some sort of virtue signalling today.

I think actions and faith go hand in hand. Not that works justifies alone but rather faith in action.

From what I understand many will claim to believe in Christ but Christ says He will not know them. Like the parable of the talens when a person hides them and never multiplies them.

The ultimate test that we be willing to lay down our life for Christ. Many will fall short of this even though they proclaim to believe in Christ. Where ultimately in their heart they were only willing to go so far and never had the faith to put their bodies on the line.

Which is not really about works but faith in action. Like Abraham the father of faith who confessed to believe God and was willing to sacrifice his son as a real act that put his faith on the line.

I think theres a difference between confessing to faith with our heads rather than our heart.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Does not the bible say faith without works is dead.

The problem I see is that some may think faith alone is enough and never put their faith to the test. It is putting faith into action that makes it real.

Anyone can claim they believe in Christ and in fact this has become some sort of virtue signalling today.

I think actions and faith go hand in hand. Not that works justifies alone but rather faith in action.

From what I understand many will claim to believe in Christ but Christ says He will not know them. Like the parable of the talens when a person hides them and never multiplies them.

The ultimate test that we be willing to lay down our life for Christ. Many will fall short of this even though they proclaim to believe in Christ. Where ultimately in their heart they were only willing to go so far and never had the faith to put their bodies on the line.

Which is not really about works but faith in action. Like Abraham to confess to believe God and was willing to sacrifice His son as a real act that put his faith on the line.

>>>>>""Does not the bible say faith without works is dead.
Rom 4:2-5
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Davy]

Do you reject the saving Gospel as taught by Christ to Paul ?
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
It's a simple YES or NO question, not hard at all
....

You are starting to sound like a broken record. Most of those Scriptures you quote you clearly do not understand them, but only cover them up with the blankets of the false doctrines of men that you are heeding, Hyper-Dispensationalism and a false Pre-trib Rapture.

I am actually being honest with you, not arguing with you. Your soul is in serious trouble with our Lord Jesus, for He warned us about those men you listen to, wolves in sheep's clothing, and hirelings who only preach as a business.

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, and it is for BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES, just as Apostle Paul said:

Gal 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

 

[Brakelite]

What verses do you believe teach how a person today is saved ?

You include everything that the scriptures have thus far revealed, repentance, faith in the blood of the z Lamb, surrender to the holy Spirit etc, but for the times we are living in, we need to include Revelation 14:6-12.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul did not teach a different gospel. The gospel has been the same since Adam.. it has always been by grace.. it has never been by works.

Abraham believed God. and God credit it to him as rightiousness

 

[Soyeong]

>>>>>""Does not the bible say faith without works is dead.
Rom 4:2-5
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Works can be done for a variety of reasons such as in order to earn a wage or in order to embody our faith, such as with all of the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 being examples of people doing works or with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works. James is speak about works done through faith while Romans 4:1-5 is speaking about works done to earn a wage.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Works can be done for a variety of reasons such as in order to earn a wage or in order to embody our faith, such as with all of the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 being examples of people doing works or with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works. James is speak about works done through faith while Romans 4:1-5 is speaking about works done to earn a wage.

Does Paul (Romans to Philemon) teach that 'works' are a requirement today to be justified/saved, if so then please list the verses.

 

[Soyeong]

Does Paul (Romans to Philemon) teach that 'works' are a requirement today to be justified/saved, if so then please list the verses.

While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works, he also affirmed in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Law of God will be declared righteous, so there is a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be a doer of it other than in order to earn it as the result, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works done to ear it as the result also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). In other words, we become someone who has faith, someone who will be declared righteous, and someone who is a doer of the Law of God all at the same time and anyone who is not one of those is also not the others, but we do not become righteous as the result of our obedience to the Law of God.