The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.

[Jay Ross]

Hi Jay,

I see you have done much work. Now you use the solar calendar while I use the lunar which is what God uses in His word. Also, I take the 2,300 as days written and not years.

We will see.....

First off, even the Lunar calendar every few years adds an additional 30 day month to account for the solar year. There is a 19 or so year cycle during which a number of years have an additional month added.

If you assume that the prophecy of 2,300 days and nights should be taken literally, then the 70 weeks of years should also be taken to mean 490 days, but seventy weeks of years is accepted as having a meaning of 490 solar years. The calculation of multiplying the 490 years by 360 day and then dividing the calculated 176,400 days by 365.25 day to calculate the number of solar years, demonstrates the ignorance of the original person who suggested this calculation to determine the equivalent number of solar years that the prophecy was pointing towards.

We know from Daniel 8 that the trampling of God's sanctuary began around 70 years after the death of Alexandra the Great and the four segments of the divided Grecian empire acknowledged the four winds of heaven after their formation. These four winds of heaven are on and the same entity as the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12.

If we consider the prophetic words that Mooses penned in Leviticus 27 and Deuteronomy 28, he plainly stated that the troubles for the Israelites would continue until the completion of the third and fourth ages of the existence of Israel from the time of Isacc's birth. What is presently happening in the Middle East with respect to the trampling of modern-day Israel demonstrates that Daniel 8's prophecy in verse 14 must represent actual solar years and not just days as you have suggested otherwise, Israel would not have been and still is scattered to the four corners of the earth.

Shalom

 

[Luther7]

This is what my Interlinear shows: -

View attachment 84534

And this is the meaning of H:4940: -

View attachment 84535
View attachment 84536
View attachment 84537
And this is the meaning of H:0127: -

View attachment 84538

View attachment 84539​

And this is how I understand that Genesis 12:3 should be paraphrased: -

Genesis 12:3: - 3 I will bless those who bless you,​

And I will curse him who curses you;​

And through you all the families inhabiting My fertile soil shall be blessed."​

Which gives a very different understanding of this verse.

This paraphrase tells us exactly why the peoples of the earth will be blessed, because of their occupation of God's fertile field/soil.

Shalom

Sure. But your analysis doesn't change the point that it is ALL the families of the earth, or fertile field - soil.

Interesting to note that Cain became one of the first city builder/ dweller. God's good earth wasn't for him. And it has been my observation that most jews throughout history have not much to do with the fertile ground or farming to be specific.

Here's an interesting tidbit:
The Soviet government actively promoted agriculture as a way to convert Jewish merchants and artisans into productive manual laborers and to counter Zionist movements.

Generally speaking, they like to earn money from the hard work of the Goyim.

Even if you think I'm going on a tangent Genesis 12:3 is not jew inclusive.

Peace

 

[William Barton]

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." (Matthew 24:36)

But we do know when it will *not* happen:

"...the Lord will come suddenly to his temple." (Malachi 3:1).

No temple, no return of Jesus.

 

[David in NJ]

The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.


No one should speculate as that it one`s own opinion. Instead we should more diligently study God`s word.

Now when Jesus was manifest on earth, he said that no one knows the day or hour of His return. Now that Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, in the Godhead, He does certainly know when He shall return. And that time He was referring to is when He comes to deliver Israel and bring vengeance upon His enemies.

God`s word uses the lunar calendar, which the Jews use. And the Lord said by His Holy Spirit through Paul to the Thessalonians, -

`But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night..` (1 Thess. 5: 1 & 2)

The Lord comes to deliver Israel `as a thief,` for Israel is in partial darkness. However, the Body of Christ is NOT in darkness `so that this day should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

The `times and seasons,` the major Feasts are well known however there are 3 minor feasts that are very relevant.

The Feast of dedication - Hanukkah.

`Now it was the feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the Temple, in Solomon`s porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do you keep us in doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." (Jn 10: 22 - 24)

It is only natural that, during Hanukkah (the celebration from foreign oppression), thoughts of national deliverance would again be aroused. In the day of Jesus, Israel was looking for the ultimate deliverer, the Messiah himself, who would overthrow Roman rule.

If He were to deliver the Jewish nation, they would never fall under Gentile dominion again. He would usher in the golden age messianic age, making it possible for the Shekinah glory to return to the Temple as in the days of Solomon`s dedication of the Temple.

With this thought on their minds, a group of Jewish inquirers came to Jesus. It was Hanukkah, and Jesus was walking along Solomon`s colonnade (the pillared walkway in the Temple). He was celebrating Hanukkah in the same Temple that had been cleansed and rededicated only a few generations earlier.

These inquirers asked "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ (Messiah), tell us plainly. (Jn 10: 24) Indeed He had clearly shown that He was the Messiah and verified it with many miracles. They had rejected Him because He consistently failed to meet their messianic expectations. They were looking for a military messiah, one who was only a great human leader.

This was not the time for a new Hanukkah (overthrow of Gentile rule), for the nation was still blind in their rejection.

However, there will come a time when the Lord of glory will come to deliver Israel with His angelic army and that will be during Hanukkah. The actual date is the 29th of Kislev, the middle of Hanukkah, the festival of lights. How appropriate that the Light of the world should come then to deliver Israel from its enemies.

The Jewish calendar is not the same length as the solar so each year the solar date will change. However, the Jewish date, the 29th of Kislev is always the same. (around December)



As to the Rapture, well, 6 years and 11 months earlier plus the time of the Russian war.

It is ok to speculate

It is a MUST to believe the words of CHRIST or you end up believing the words of men and religion.

The Jewish people will only be rescued at the 2nd Coming of CHRIST = as Promised by GOD
Zechariah 14:1-5
Matthew 23:37-39

SAME for the Church

 

[William Barton]

"Deliverance of Israel" begs the question "From what?" Zechariah 14:2 describes armies set against Israel. See also Joel 3:1-2.

Revelation sets the battle field as the plain of Αρμαγεδων (Armageddon,
Hebrew הר מגדון) i.e. the plain at the head of tell ("mount") Megiddo.

Been there, seen it, great place to have a battle. See Revelation 16:16.

 

[William Barton]

It is ok to speculate

It is a MUST to believe the words of CHRIST or you end up believing the words of men and religion.

The Jewish people will only be rescued at the 2nd Coming of CHRIST = as Promised by GOD
Zechariah 14:1-5
Matthew 23:37-39

SAME for the Church

"Church" is an English rendering of Greek εκκλησια, stemming from:
o εκ = "from, out of"
o καλεω = "call"
o i.e. "(those) called."

This reflects the words of Jesus in John 14:6:
"No man comes to me unless the Father *calls* him."

 

[Marilyn C]

"Deliverance of Israel" begs the question "From what?" Zechariah 14:2 describes armies set against Israel. See also Joel 3:1-2.

Revelation sets the battle field as the plain of Αρμαγεδων (Armageddon,
Hebrew הר מגדון) i.e. the plain at the head of tell ("mount") Megiddo.

Been there, seen it, great place to have a battle. See Revelation 16:16.

Actually William, God`s word says `they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.` (Rev. 16: 16)

And since you have been there you know it is a large area where the armies will gather. Then God`s word tell us that God will bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat where He will judge them. (Joel 3: 12 & 13)

 

[Marilyn C]

First off, even the Lunar calendar every few years adds an additional 30 day month to account for the solar year. There is a 19 or so year cycle during which a number of years have an additional month added.

If you assume that the prophecy of 2,300 days and nights should be taken literally, then the 70 weeks of years should also be taken to mean 490 days, but seventy weeks of years is accepted as having a meaning of 490 solar years. The calculation of multiplying the 490 years by 360 day and then dividing the calculated 176,400 days by 365.25 day to calculate the number of solar years, demonstrates the ignorance of the original person who suggested this calculation to determine the equivalent number of solar years that the prophecy was pointing towards.



Shalom

Hi Jay,

Must have missed your comments, sorry.

Yes, the lunar calendar has to have an extra month every 3 years or so, to align with the solar calendar. However, God has His prophetic calendar which is 360 days. This is a constant and can thus be aligned with either calendar.

The 70 weeks whether days or years are revealed by the divisions - the command etc. (Dan. 9: 25 - 27) And the reason is in God` word that 70 years was because Israel did not keep the sabbatical (7th) year of rest for the land thus exile to Babylon. (2 Chron. 36: 21) Then the years in between for their rebellion make up the 490 years of chastisement.

 

[William Barton]

<Jehoshaphat>

Jehoshaphat is in the Kidron Valley, near Jerusalem..

The plain of Megiddo is the landing spot, and the battle perhaps then veers toward Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is an ancient city, going back to around 3000 B.C. It had no particular connection to God, until God chose it (Jeremiah 3:17).

 

[Jay Ross]

Yes, the lunar calendar has to have an extra month every 3 years or so, to align with the solar calendar. However, God has His prophetic calendar which is 360 days. This is a constant and can thus be aligned with either calendar.

The 70 weeks whether days or years are revealed by the divisions - the command etc. (Dan. 9: 25 - 27) And the reason is in God` word that 70 years was because Israel did not keep the sabbatical (7th) year of rest for the land thus exile to Babylon. (2 Chron. 36: 21) Then the years in between for their rebellion make up the 490 years of chastisement.

The 360-day prophetic year is a construct of man. In Daniel 9:24 the 70 weeks of years co-insides with490 years of yearly sin sacrifices and if the New year observations of the new moon and the bailey harvest did not mesh precisely then a thirteenth month was added to the year and the start of the new year was delayed with a thirteenth month for that particular year. With this being the case, the yearly Jewish calendar took into account the Solar years. In Daniel 12:11 it states that the last time, times and a half would be over a period of 1290 days.

Daniel 12:11: - 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.​

If this is the case, then the 360-day prophetic years as claimed in your post is not true.

Shalom​

 

[Marilyn C]

The 360-day prophetic year is a construct of man. In Daniel 9:24 the 70 weeks of years co-insides with490 years of yearly sin sacrifices and if the New year observations of the new moon and the bailey harvest did not mesh precisely then a thirteenth month was added to the year and the start of the new year was delayed with a thirteenth month for that particular year. With this being the case, the yearly Jewish calendar took into account the Solar years.

Shalom​

Hi Jay,
I`ll answer this part first. The Prophetic and Calendar times are laid out.

 

[Marilyn C]

The 360-day prophetic year is a construct of man...... In Daniel 12:11 it states that the last time, times and a half would be over a period of 1290 days.
​

Daniel 12:11: - 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.​

If this is the case, then the 360-day prophetic years as claimed in your post is not true.

Shalom​

In Dan. 12: 11

 

[Jay Ross]

Hi Jay,
I`ll answer this part first. The Prophetic and Calendar times are laid out.

View attachment 84979

I will provide a table of the key events for the same time period.

950BC	The foundation stone for the Temple was laid.
932 BC	Solomon dedicated the Temple to God and God's presence filled the temple.
	The river of life began as a small stream flowing out from under the altar in measured 1000-year increments
494 BC	The beginning of the 490 years of God's grace for Israel to repent of their iniquities
4 BC	End of the second age of Israel's existence
	Birth of Christ
	Start of the third age of Israel's existence
29 AD	Death of Christ
68 AD	The first described observation of the river of life was undertaken 1,000 cubits from the start of the flow of the River of Life.
70 AD	Destruction of the Temple, and the beginning of the scattering of Israelites to the four corners of the earth.
1020 AD	the beginning of the fourth age of Israel's existence
1068 AD	The second described observation of the river of life was undertaken 2,000 cubits from the start of the flow of the River of Life.
2044 AD	The end of the fourth age of Israel's existence
2045 AD	The judgement of the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth and the start of their imprisonment in the Bottomless pit
	God begins His gathering of Israel to Himself, and the planting them in His fertile Field and teaching them on the Mountain of Israel that came down out of heaven as the foundation stone of Israel's religious basis.
	The Start of the 1,000 years of Satan, the beasts, the Little Horn and the Kings of the earth being imprisoned in the Bottomless pit
	The first resurrection of the saints who will have lost their head for God's everlasting Kingdom and who will be priests for 1,000 years with Christ.
2068 AD	The third described observation of the river of life was undertaken 3,000 cubits from the start of the flow of the River of Life from the start of the River of Life.
3044 AD	The last year of the Millenium period.
3045 AD	The Bottomless pit is unlocked to release the entities imprisoned.
	Initially the judged kings of the earth are released and they are described as
	Satan begin marching all over the world while heading towards Jerusalem
	The two witnesses prophesied for three and a half years before the beasts arrive at Jerusalem and they made war against them and killed them, and they were left to lie in the city for three and a half days.
30?? AD	Christs comes and captures the Beast and the False prophet and dispatches them into the Lake of fire
	Christs then confronts Satan, captures him and also dispatches him into the lake of fire.
3068 AD	Christ comes with all of the heavenly hosts in all power and glory to begin Judging the peoples of the earth
3068 AD	The fourth described observation of the river of life was undertaken 4,000 cubits from the start of the flow of the River of Life as it tumbles over the edge of the escarpment into the land below to bring healing to this land.

I have not listed all of the event but enough for you to see my thinking.

Shalom

 

[PinSeeker]

The concept of the temple holds profound significance in the context of the Bible, symbolizing a meeting place between the divine and the mortal. The original temple was the Garden of Eden itself, where God dwelt with Adam and Eve and the tree of life ~ the first reference to Jesus ~ was in the middle of it (Genesis 2:9) ~ until the events of Genesis 3, when God banished Adam and Eve from Eden. Then, in the Exodus, the temple was the tabernacle, the tent of meeting, where God dwelt among His people, the Israelites, in the wilderness/desert on the way to the Promised Land. Finally came the physical temple... Solomon's temple... which was constructed at God's direction as a grand physical structure for worship and sacrifices and symbolized God's presence among His people. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the physical temple and said He would rebuild it in three days... and He was speaking of Himself in doing so. What we have now... since Jesus's resurrection, a spiritual temple; believers, all those in Christ, are this new temple:

• "Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16-17).
• "What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, 'I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (2 Corinthians 6:16).
• "So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:19-22).

Paul reiterates that believers are the temple of God, making a clear distinction between worshipping God and idols. He emphasizes God's promise to dwell within believers, marking an intimate relationship that goes beyond physical walls.

So... There will be no Temple in the New Jerusalem. "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it" (Revelation 21:22). In the vision of the New Jerusalem, there is no need for a temple because God's presence is direct and unmediated. The Lord and the Lamb replace the traditional temple, symbolizing a perfected relationship where God dwells fully with His people. Through these transitions, the essence of the temple remains grounded in the idea of divine presence and communion with God, which finds its ultimate fulfillment in Christ and the final redemption of humanity.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

That means God's work with Israel is "finished."

It means God's work of redemption is accomplished... by Jesus on the cross. God's "work with Israel," or His bring His Israel to completion, in Paul's terms in Romans 11:25-26, is still ongoing. But it will be complete; all God's Isreal will be saved ~ the fullness of the Gentiles will have been brought in and the partial hardening that is now on Israel removed... all of God's elect will be saved... God's temple fully built, by God, Who Himself is its Designer and Builder (Hebrews 11:10). Again, together, we are all members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in Whom we are all being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit (Ephesians 2:19-22).

But I am not sure what you are saying about "NO Body of Christ." It is the Church that is the body of Christ...

Right, and one day, it will be brought to completion. And then... Christ will return, the victory will then be won, the final Judgment executed, and the Kingdom will be ushered in in its fullness... the new heaven and new earth.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." (Matthew 24:36)

But we do know when it will *not* happen:

"...the Lord will come suddenly to his temple." (Malachi 3:1).

No temple, no return of Jesus.

Malachi 3:1 refers to the first coming of Christ, not the second. It references John the Baptist as the messenger who would prepare the way before Him.

Compare...

Malachi 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

Matthew 11:7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written: ‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

 

[ScottA]

It means God's work of redemption is accomplished... by Jesus on the cross. God's "work with Israel," or His bring His Israel to completion, in Paul's terms in Romans 11:25-26, is still ongoing. But it will be complete; all God's Isreal will be saved ~ the fullness of the Gentiles will have been brought in and the partial hardening that is now on Israel removed... all of God's elect will be saved... God's temple fully built, by God, Who Himself is its Designer and Builder (Hebrews 11:10). Again, together, we are all members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in Whom we are all being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit (Ephesians 2:19-22).

The scriptures walk a fine line that can rightly appear to be saying one thing and not another. But in this case the passages that you gave (and others) speak of specifically of "the house of Israel", and also of the remnant bloodline which is no longer of the house of Israel but has been cast out and in need of being grafted back in not unlike the gentiles. Wherein, "rightly dividing the word of truth" is needed. If you will notice much of what is said of Israel in Romans 11 is even stated in past tense.

It is the house of Israel that Christ "is finished" with. For a house is built and its foundation 'finished" before the upper structure is built.

So then, we and the bloodline honor those who went before, for what we build was not even begun until their part was finished. It is that foundation that we build upon, and if it were not finished, what we build will fail. But it is finished, and therefore Christ as much as said, "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"--not even referring to Peter, a Jew, but to the word from God.

 

[ScottA]

Right, and one day, it will be brought to completion. And then... Christ will return, the victory will then be won, the final Judgment executed, and the Kingdom will be ushered in in its fullness... the new heaven and new earth.

Grace and peace to all.

You say, "And then..." as future only, as if nothing was finished, no young members of the body ever matured, finished the race, or endured to the end. Do you see how much of scripture I have referred to in that one-sentence summary? And what of the thief on the cross--did he just have to wait for the victory of future generations to be won and the final Judgement of those not yet even born?

This is why Paul became concise, in grouping all the dead and all the living--all, as in all of time and all of everyone of every generation--but then clarified, that he did not mean it as a mass group event, saying "but, each one in his own order." "One" in the original language meaning "one individual."

But men, not being with the thief on the cross as he saw all those things come to pass "today", and also not coming to that same place with "each one" included in Paul's all-encompassing summary of every soul ever born, ourselves--we are prone to self-centeredly only see those things as not yet happening...just because it hasn't happened to us. How pathetic and selfish are we, if we think such a thing--for that is not even what is written!

 

[PinSeeker]

The scriptures walk a fine line that can rightly appear to be saying one thing and not another.

Well, your way of stating this appear to insinuate ~ and I know this is not your intention ~ that God's Word is... and God Himself is... deceptive, which He is surely not. I would rather state it thusly, that just from a human standpoint, we can understand things in God's Word in senses or contexts that are different from what they actually are, in which case there is no deception, but only misunderstanding. But as Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2, God can and does, in His sovereignty over all His creation send delusions, which is to say God is instrumental in causing unbelievers to embrace the Antichrist, who is the one who deceives, and therefore to believe what is false: "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved... God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

But in this case the passages that you gave (and others) speak of specifically of "the house of Israel"

Right, God's Israel, His household, which consists only of His elect. Sure.

and also of the remnant bloodline which is no longer of the house of Israel but has been cast out and in need of being grafted back in not unlike the gentiles.

Right, the "partial hardening now on Israel" that is being and will be removed.

Wherein, "rightly dividing the word of truth" is needed. If you will notice much of what is said of Israel in Romans 11 is even stated in past tense.

Absolutely. This is simultaneous now and not yet of the Gospel ~ which is to say "inaugurated but not yet consummated," which applies to many, many things throughout the New Testament.

It is the house of Israel that Christ "is finished" with.

You know, it's unnecessary to quibble, but it is through Christ, because of His finished work or redemption on the cross, that God is building His Israel. Again, when Jesus cried, "It is finished!"... He was referring to His work of redemption... that it is completely accomplished.

In accordance with what you are saying (I think), we can understand it in terms of what Paul says in Romans 8:29-30...

"...those whom (God) foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified."​

Yes, this is all past tense. So, to us, the glorification is yet to come ~ even for those who are already deceased but in and with Jesus; this is what is commonly called the intermediate state ~ but is an absolute certainty. All in Christ will be glorified at His return. So, not yet a reality, but the victory already won, in and through Christ. So Israel, God's household, is complete eternally speaking ~ we all have eternal life now ~ but not yet complete temporally speaking ~ we will all truly have eternal life in the age to come.

For a house is built and its foundation 'finished" before the upper structure is built.

So then, we and the bloodline honor those who went before, for what we build was not even begun until their part was finished. It is that foundation that we build upon, and if it were not finished, what we build will fail. But it is finished, and therefore Christ as much as said, "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"--not even referring to Peter, a Jew, but to the word from God.

The bloodline is irrelevant, really; it was never synonymous with God's Israel. We are all one in Christ Jesus. I'm not sure if you would agree with me regarding who God's true Jews are, but no matter; Paul clearly says in Romans 2:28-29, "no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

One day God will be finished, even temporally speaking, building His household, which He's really been building since the events of Genesis 3, which was made possible once and for all in the finished word of redemption, accomplished by Christ Jesus on the cross.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[PinSeeker]

You say, "And then..." as future only, as if nothing was finished,

See above.

And what of the thief on the cross--did he just have to wait for the victory of future generations to be won and the final Judgement of those not yet even born?

I assume you are talking about the one crucified on Jesus's right, here. So I would answer this question thusly: Yes... and no. Again, see above.

This is why Paul became concise, in grouping all the dead and all the living--all, as in all of time and all of everyone of every generation--but then clarified, that he did not mean it as a mass group event, saying "but, each one in his own order." "One" in the original language meaning "one individual."

Hmmm... I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, to be honest, but I'll speak specifically to what you are referring to. And I'm going to pick out the verse you're referring to along with the ones before and after:

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power" (1 Corinthians 15:22-24).​

Paul is actually talking about both the now ~ in verse 22, "in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" ~ and the not yet ~ "at His coming those who belong to Christ" This is the first (verse 22; synonymous with our being made alive in Christ, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-6 and Peter says in 1 Peter 1:3-5) and the second (physical resurrection at the end of the age to eternal life; Jesus talks about it in John 5:28-29) resurrections, here.

I'm really not sure of the disconnect between us ~ if there is one ~ to be honest. What I think is that in what you say here ~ "did not mean it as a mass group event" ~ I would... well disagree in one sense and agree in another; I would say he's talking about both things in these passages. It's what we call the simultaneous now and not yet of the Gospel, and it applies to many things throughout the New Testament.

But men, not being with the thief on the cross as he saw all those things come to pass "today", and also not coming to that same place with "each one" included in Paul's all-encompassing summary of every soul ever born, ourselves--we are prone to self-centeredly only see those things as not yet happening...just because it hasn't happened to us. How pathetic and selfish are we, if we think such a thing--for that is not even what is written!

Hmmmm... Well, if you're saying that both the now and the not yet are true, then I agree. <smile> If so, then I would just say ~ and this doesn't mean much, really ~ I think you're way of explaining it is at least a little... opaque... <smile> To me. Not meant to offend in any way.

Grace and peace to you.