I don't identify as a "Christian"

[Matthias]

Matthias​

Hi
For me, what once was hope has long matured into knowing.

Thanks. What do you know about your future? What does it look like?

To be sure, there are various interpretations as to what exactly resurrection involves. For some, they believe it is that a human dies and will remain dead until they are resurrected. Others believe that when they dies they move on/into the next "phase" meaning they haven't died (only their body has).
I suspect this is all has to do with how one self-identifies. It is an interesting topic. One which has many branches coming from it.

I’m a resurrection man.

What is your position on the Bible?

What do you think about Jesus?

 

[Bob]

Hi

Bob​

I have a purpose. I am consciousness having a human experience within a created thing. My purpose is to learn, to grow, to contribute to the Field of which I am a part, and to participate in Universal Balance and Harmony - not as abstract ideals, but as something enacted moment to moment.
My understanding is to treat others as sovereign points of view within the same Field of Consciousness. To harm another is to harm oneself, ultimately. So I aim to do no harm, to speak truthfully, to act with compassion, and to recognize that every person I meet is also an expression of the same intelligent Field at their own particular "level" (some are sucklings and others eat meat) That's the ethical orientation (bias) I lean toward.

Thanks for responding so quickly.

It is good to know you have a lot of ethical/moral alignment with Christianity. The follow-on question is the source of your morality. Were you raised to “treat others as you would be treated”?

The reason for this question is that the default behavior for humans is the same as any other adult social mammal: self-centered, with selfish desires and rationalizing pretty much any means to satisfy those desires. (You only need to spend time with a toddler to view the behavior in the flesh!) If there are communities of people living harmoniously with each other, there must have been an agent in the past to persuade them.

Blessings.

 

[Eternal Entity]

I’m a resurrection man.

Okay.

What is your position on the Bible?

Is is a body of writings considered by many to be sacred, authoritative, and foundational within specific religious traditions.
I have no "position" on it. Can you clarify what you mean by that?

What do you think about Jesus?

I think many things about Jesus. Often I think of him (as biblically recorded) as a Mystic. Perhaps you meant something else?

What do you know about your future?

I know that I will have one.

What does it look like?

Different from what my past looked like and different from my now.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Thanks for responding so quickly.

It is good to know you have a lot of ethical/moral alignment with Christianity. The follow-on question is the source of your morality. Were you raised to “treat others as you would be treated”?

The reason for this question is that the default behavior for humans is the same as any other adult social mammal: self-centered, with selfish desires and rationalizing pretty much any means to satisfy those desires. (You only need to spend time with a toddler to view the behavior in the flesh!) If there are communities of people living harmoniously with each other, there must have been an agent in the past to persuade them.

Blessings.

I was (like many) raised in a society which I term as being "Culturally Christian". Certainly how we are brought up influences us. I agree that treating others as you want to be treated is motivated in part by selfish intent, - meaning it serves the self while serving others - but is that a bad thing? :)

 

[Eternal Entity]

To clarify my position.

• I have a relationship with my Father (The Father.)
• I walked the path of The Son to gain that relationship.
• I do not call myself a Christian. A couple of reasons for this is because Jesus was never recorded as using that label for his followers and because the religion built around his name is acknowledged by me to have always been unnecessary to my beginning and developing relationship with my Father (The Father.)
• I witness to what I know, not from hope or faith, but from the matured knowledge and eventual wisdom that evolves from hope and faith in practice.

 

[Armour of God]

Greetings Reader.

I joined this forum today. In the membership form I was asked how I identify religiously and was given a list of options, and chose the one which most closely mirrored my position - that being "Agnostic".

What I think is true:

I exist within a created thing.
I have many good reasons why I think this is true.

Since I think this is true, that would make me a "Theist" - because IF I think I exist within a created thing, THEN this implies a Creator/Creators.
Perhaps in that context, I might be an Agnostic Theist.
I do not self identify as being a "Christian" for many reasons. I have no problem with others who self identify as being Christian, for whatever reasons they chose to do so.
Truely, the "self identification" doesn't mean much to me, but I understand it means something to others, so that they may be able to better pinpoint who I am in relation to who they believe they are. Such is the nature of human interactions on that level.
To flip that, others who self identify as being "Christians" when they interact with me, the label doesn't really mean a lot to me in any significant way. This is because there are so many "types" of Christians, and many of those do not agree with one another most of the time and that is just one of the reasons why I do not self identify as being "Christian".
Are there any others hereabouts think in a similar way about this?

Peace.
EE

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I was basically raised in a Christian family and became an atheist, then I became agnostic before becoming a theist and then a Christian again. I've been around in a full circle.

I was/am at the position you are in now, someone who believes in intelligent design. The most compelling arguments for me was the watchmakers argument, the fine tuning argument and the fact that life comes from life. You've probably heard of these. You said anything that has a begining is created. That's a good argument as well.

One thing about this forum is that most thread topics are for Christians only. Seeing you have marked yourself as agnostic you won't be able to post on them.
Considering you believe in a creator and if you believe in the moral teachings of Christ then you can be considered, by some including myself, to be a Christian. You may want to consider changing that tag just so you can partake in more thread topics.

Anyway all the best and I hope you enjoy the forum. May Gods grace and peace be with you

 

[Stumpmaster]

This is because there are so many "types" of Christians, and many of those do not agree with one another most of the time and that is just one of the reasons why I do not self identify as being "Christian".

Have you ever researched the original designating of followers of Christ as Christians?

Act 11:25-26 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: (26) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I was basically raised in a Christian family and became an atheist, then I became agnostic before becoming a theist and then a Christian again. I've been around in a full circle.

I was/am at the position you are in now, someone who believes in intelligent design. The most compelling arguments for me was the watchmakers argument, the fine tuning argument and the fact that life comes from life. You've probably heard of these. You said anything that has a begining is created. That's a good argument as well.

One thing about this forum is that most thread topics are for Christians only. Seeing you have marked yourself as agnostic you won't be able to post on them.
Considering you believe in a creator and if you believe in the moral teachings of Christ then you can be considered, by some including myself, to be a Christian. You may want to consider changing that tag just so you can partake in more thread topics.

Anyway all the best and I hope you enjoy the forum. May Gods grace and peace be with you

Hi

Armour of God​

Thank you for sharing that aspect of your journey. I appreciate the graciousness of your post. I think if others want to see me as a Christian, that is how they will. At this point I prefer not being able to directly engage with others in the Christians Only forums on this message board - not only because "rules are rules" but because it doesn't really matter to me in the sense that it is not the most important thing in the world to me - or for me to be accepted or be granted permission or however one might express the case re the rules.

I am okay right here - accessible to Christians such as yourself and open to such personalities. Not that I don't find interesting things in others posts - thread subjects catch my attention on occasion - pique my interest and curiosity, to read further and perhaps learn something new - and I suppose if such happens and I want to comment of anything I pick up in those forum threads, I can still link to that and quote and give something of my understanding about that, even here in this thread - or in this particular non-Christian forum specifically set aside for those who - quite truthfully - do not self identify as being Christian.

 

[Matthias]

Is is a body of writings considered by many to be sacred, authoritative, and foundational within specific religious traditions.
I have no "position" on it. Can you clarify what you mean by that?

I was wondering what authority, if any, the Bible has in your life. Do you consider the Bible to be in any degree sacred, holy, authoritative, and foundational in your life? Is their a book (or books) beside the Bible that you consider, sacred, holy, authoritative, and foundational?

I know that I will have one.

Do you know where it will be, what you will be doing, and for how long you will be doing it?

 

[Nancy]

Despite your perception of me, I follow Jesus Christ. I’m an ordained elder in the Church of God Abrahamic Faith and a retired pastor. (I stopped renewing my ministerial license two years ago.)

Hello @Matthias
I just looked into your faith practices. There are a few things that I find wonderful practices, and the others I side differently. Here are the practices I find very biblical:

• Lay Community: They have no paid ministers, priests, or central leadership. Local congregations are called "ecclesias" and are led by senior male members.
• Simple Worship: Their services do not involve elaborate ceremonies, robes, or traditional church structures. They meet primarily to pray, study the Bible, and break bread.
• Lifestyle: They often separate themselves from worldly activities, interpret biblical morals strictly, and prioritize close-knit community fellowship.

-Wiki

Peace and grace to you!

 

[Matthias]

Hello @Matthias
I just looked into your faith practices. There are a few things that I find wonderful practices, and the others I side differently. Here are the practices I find very biblical:

• Lay Community: They have no paid ministers, priests, or central leadership. Local congregations are called "ecclesias" and are led by senior male members.
• Simple Worship: Their services do not involve elaborate ceremonies, robes, or traditional church structures. They meet primarily to pray, study the Bible, and break bread.
• Lifestyle: They often separate themselves from worldly activities, interpret biblical morals strictly, and prioritize close-knit community fellowship.

-Wiki

Peace and grace to you!

I’m loosely affiliated with the Church of God General Conference. They issued my ministerial license. I don’t fully agree with the direction they’re moving in. I provide the affiliation information when asked but I’m not here to direct people to them. I point people to Jesus.

 

[shepherdsword]

Welcome EE, you were drawn here for a reason. My prayer is that you one day have the faith to change your tag from "Agnostic" to "Christian"

Blessings in Jesus' name.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Angelina​

You asked "What led you to that view?"
The reasoning which leads to the conclusion is quite complex. Ultimately it gets down to anything that has a beginning is by definition something which was created. I have seen argument which say that the universe could have always existed, but since this is not a scientific certainty, or something that scientists claim, then - to go with that flow, the alternative is that it was created. Some have argued that the universe could have spontaneously come into being, but that does not adequately explain consciousness.
Your also asked "Do you see the Creator as personal, impersonal, " I have heard those expression before but not entirely sure as to what people mean by that. What do you mean by that?


would say "One" even if there are many involved. In that, "One" signifies "united" as in a body of...


I do not think that the concept of Deist Creator is logical so, definitely involved.

Hi @Eternal Entity,
That's interesting because from what you've written, you seem to have moved beyond agnosticism regarding the existence of a Creator.

You affirm that the universe had a beginning; beginnings imply creation, consciousness points beyond purely material explanations, and the Creator is involved rather than detached.

If I've understood you correctly, it sounds less like you're uncertain whether a Creator exists and more like you're uncertain about the nature or identity of that Creator. Would that be a fair summary of your position?

Regarding my question about personal or impersonal, I was basically asking whether you think the Creator possesses mind, will, intention, and the ability to relate or whether the Creator is more like an impersonal force or principle.

From your comments about consciousness and involvement, I suspect you may lean toward the former, but I'd be interested to hear how you see it.

 

[complete]

'So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.'
(Rom.10:17)

Hello @Eternal Entity,

I believe what God has told us in the Bible regarding His Son the Lord Jesus Christ: concerning His birth, death and resurrection; and am trusting Him to keep His word regarding life everlasting.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Eternal Entity]

I was wondering what authority, if any, the Bible has in your life.

Do you mean something like do I consider the Bible to be "The Word of God"?

Do you consider the Bible to be in any degree sacred, holy, authoritative, and foundational in your life?

Somewhat. The degree therein is specific to the witness of the authorre their relationship with The Father. The sacred, holy, authoritative, and foundational position is the role reserved as The Fathers alone, re me.

Is their a book (or books) beside the Bible that you consider, sacred, holy, authoritative, and foundational?

No. There are no books including the Bible to which I bestow such an honor. That would be no different to idol worship imo.

Do you know where it will be,

Do you me like an actual place? Something else?

what you will be doing,

I will be living and in that serving The Father in whatever capacity that requires.

and for how long you will be doing it?

How long is a piece of string Matthias.
If there a point to these questions please share that with me.

In Love

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hi @Eternal Entity,
That's interesting because from what you've written, you seem to have moved beyond agnosticism regarding the existence of a Creator.

Yes. The interesting thing about this for me is that I was moved to search for online Christian Forums, chose this one (there are many to choose from) noted that the registration form asked what "faith" one held and listed some options. I chose "agnostic" not so much as a "faith" but because I have been one and most people including myself are agnostic about one thing or another.
THis in turn prompted me to introduce myself to the forum members by way of this thread - its heading which reflects what many theists are interested in - how another self identifies...

You affirm that the universe had a beginning; beginnings imply creation, consciousness points beyond purely material explanations, and the Creator is involved rather than detached.

I do not think consciousness is necessarily non-material. I have an argument about all of that which I am happy to share - perhaps as its own thread.

If I've understood you correctly, it sounds less like you're uncertain whether a Creator exists and more like you're uncertain about the nature or identity of that Creator. Would that be a fair summary of your position?

Rather than answer your question, I would steer you the post (you may have missed) where I clarify my position and you can decide from that whether your summary is fair. :)

• #25
  

 

[Angelina]

Yes. The interesting thing about this for me is that I was moved to search for online Christian Forums, chose this one (there are many to choose from) noted that the registration form asked what "faith" one held and listed some options. I chose "agnostic" not so much as a "faith" but because I have been one and most people including myself are agnostic about one thing or another.
THis in turn prompted me to introduce myself to the forum members by way of this thread - its heading which reflects what many theists are interested in - how another self identifies...

I do not think consciousness is necessarily non-material. I have an argument about all of that which I am happy to share - perhaps as its own thread.

Rather than answer your question, I would steer you the post (you may have missed) where I clarify my position and you can decide from that whether your summary is fair. :)

• #25

Hey, @Eternal Entity,
I can see why you declined my summary, and I am beginning to suspect that every time someone attempts to label you, another one
mysteriously falls off somewhere else.

What stood out to me wasn't so much whether "agnostic" is the right description but rather your statement:

"I have a relationship with my Father (The Father). I walked the path of The Son to gain that relationship."

That's a much stronger claim than merely being uncertain about the existence of a Creator. What I'd be interested in understanding is what you mean by "walking the path of The Son." Are you speaking primarily of following Jesus as an example, or something more akin to what Christians mean when they speak of coming to the Father through Christ?

I'm just interested in understanding your position in your own words.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hey, @Eternal Entity,
I can see why you declined my summary, and I am beginning to suspect that every time someone attempts to label you, another one
mysteriously falls off somewhere else.

That is the nature of labels. They oft describe fixed positions which is what folk most want.

What stood out to me wasn't so much whether "agnostic" is the right description but rather your statement:

"I have a relationship with my Father (The Father). I walked the path of The Son to gain that relationship."

Yes - that in itself is what we might agree is a fixed position.

That's a much stronger claim than merely being uncertain about the existence of a Creator.

Exactly. I am not agnostic in that regard.

What I'd be interested in understanding is what you mean by "walking the path of The Son." Are you speaking primarily of following Jesus as an example, or something more akin to what Christians mean when they speak of coming to the Father through Christ?

I see no difference. Do you? If so, I would interested in you expanding upon that.

I'm just interested in understanding your position in your own words.

At this point dear Angelina, if you do not understand "I don't identify as a Christian" and "I have a relationship with my Father (The Father). I walked the path of The Son to gain that relationship." - both of which are my own words, I am unclear as to what else I could provide to satisfy your curiosity in that regard.

In Love

​

 

[Angelina]

Hi @Eternal Entity, Fair point. Perhaps my question wasn't really about understanding your position so much as understanding a distinction that I see that you may not.

You asked whether I see a difference between following Jesus as an example and coming to the Father through Christ.
Yes, I do.

As a Christian, I believe we are certainly called to follow Christ's example, walk as he walked, and learn from his teachings. In that sense, we walk the path of the Son. However, I don't believe that walking the path itself is what grants access to the Father. Rather, I believe access to the Father comes through Christ Himself and what He accomplished.

To put it another way, if Jesus were only an example, then the emphasis would be on my ability to successfully follow that example. But if Jesus is also mediator, redeemer, and savior, then the emphasis shifts to what he has done on my behalf. That is the distinction I was trying to explore.

Perhaps the reason I asked is because when you say, "I walked the path of the Son to gain that relationship," my Christian senses hear two possible meanings, and I wasn't sure which one you intended.

So rather than categorizing, I'm interested in whether you see Jesus as an example, as a mediator, or both. Right, I'm off for a walk...

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hi @Eternal Entity, Fair point. Perhaps my question wasn't really about understanding your position so much as understanding a distinction that I see that you may not.

Perhaps. Or even, most likely?

You asked whether I see a difference between following Jesus as an example and coming to the Father through Christ.
Yes, I do.

That is interesting and may have a bearing on differencials.

As a Christian, I believe we are certainly called to follow Christ's example, walk as he walked, and learn from his teachings. In that sense, we walk the path of the Son. However, I don't believe that walking the path itself is what grants access to the Father. Rather, I believe access to the Father comes through Christ Himself and what He accomplished.

To put it another way, if Jesus were only an example, then the emphasis would be on my ability to successfully follow that example. But if Jesus is also mediator, redeemer, and savior, then the emphasis shifts to what he has done on my behalf. That is the distinction I was trying to explore.

Perhaps the reason I asked is because when you say, "I walked the path of the Son to gain that relationship," my Christian senses hear two possible meanings, and I wasn't sure which one you intended.

So rather than categorizing, I'm interested in whether you see Jesus as an example, as a mediator, or both. Right, I'm off for a walk...

Thank you for explaining how you believe things to be.
In the context you offer re that belief, I would say that Jesus is the mediator in the sense that he is the one who introduces the follower of the Son to The Father and in doing so "job done".
That is the short succinct reply. The map from one point to the other is a whole book of stories.
May your walk be toward that end.

In Love