Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

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Scott Downey

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HIUH???? Where does it say Abraham would see Jesus die on a cross then resurrect?
Do you falsely believe that the dead are dead, not conscious and are unawares?

Luke 20
27 Then some of the Sadducees, who deny that there is a resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 28 saying: “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife, and he dies without children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. And the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second [g]took her as wife, and he died childless. 31 Then the third took her, and in like manner the seven [h]also; and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife does she become? For all seven had her as wife.”

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

They are part of a great cloud of witnesses, to be a witness you got to be conscious and aware.
Dead witnesses, LOL, when Jesus said all live to Him... Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
Sadducees deny there is any spirit or life after death, I suppose that lie keeps going today in some minds.

Acts 23:8
For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection—and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Hebrews 12
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Genesis 18
16 Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. 17 And the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, 18 since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the Lord, to do righteousness and justice, that the Lord may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.”
 

Scott Downey

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Speculation.

Conversely, the consistent prescience of the ECFs and Reformers has proven accurate both Scripturally and historically.
Oh I don't mind that you think that.
But I don't think that.
Just as easy to say they speculated.

I know it is part of their systematic religious theology
 

Marvelloustime

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and How did they prepare the nations , religoins and tribes .
WELCOME to ALL inclusive ecumeinalism .
THEY infiltrated every known denomination o man and the false religoins too .
They recreated a love god that all could support believe in and follow . AND it aint GOD at all .
And by peace , oh yes intefaith anti christ peace they will meet their END on JESUS DAY .
But will first procliam war against any and all that did not conform to the image of the inclusive love god and its peace plan .
WE GOT SET THE HECK UP years back . Seeker friendly went to work and led them into ecumeincalism
Which leads them all to intefaith of anti christ . YEAH . Satan sure can say GOD is love
and dont judge . OH BUT HOW HE GONNA TWIST IT ALL . seems many love the flesh
and have no desire for TRUTH . This generation of christendom did two great evils .
They did an evil that none ought ever to have done . They , by false sensual love of the world , UNDER THE GUISE it was OF GOD ,
led them into rebellion against THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN IN THAT BIBLE .
CANT LOVE GOD and HATE HIS WORDS . oh but many now do . OH but many now do .
And any time the scriptures are brought unto them , ITS JUDGE NOT , get thee far away hater , As they say GOD IS LOVE
KINDA ODD dont ya think . OH I KNOW GOD IS LOVE
the only problem these blind lovers of a harlots love cannot see is
THAT HAD IT bEEN the LOVE OF GOD , IT HAD NEVER rejoiced in inquity , buT ONLY IN TRUTH .
AND EVERY WORD o GOD IS TRUTH . Someone lied to them all . And sadly they chose his lie , his love
believing it to be the Love of GOD . Oh a delusion has darn sure been unleashed .
@amigo de christo
and How did they prepare the nations , religoins and tribes .
WELCOME to ALL inclusive ecumeinalism .
THEY infiltrated every known denomination o man and the false religoins too .
They recreated a love god that all could support believe in and follow . AND it aint GOD at all .
And by peace , oh yes intefaith anti christ peace they will meet their END on JESUS DAY .
But will first procliam war against any and all that did not conform to the image of the inclusive love god and its peace plan .
WE GOT SET THE HECK UP years back . Seeker friendly went to work and led them into ecumeincalism
Which leads them all to intefaith of anti christ . YEAH . Satan sure can say GOD is love
and dont judge . OH BUT HOW HE GONNA TWIST IT ALL . seems many love the flesh
and have no desire for TRUTH . This generation of christendom did two great evils .
They did an evil that none ought ever to have done . They , by false sensual love of the world , UNDER THE GUISE it was OF GOD ,
led them into rebellion against THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN IN THAT BIBLE .
CANT LOVE GOD and HATE HIS WORDS . oh but many now do . OH but many now do .
And any time the scriptures are brought unto them , ITS JUDGE NOT , get thee far away hater , As they say GOD IS LOVE
KINDA ODD dont ya think . OH I KNOW GOD IS LOVE
the only problem these blind lovers of a harlots love cannot see is
THAT HAD IT bEEN the LOVE OF GOD , IT HAD NEVER rejoiced in inquity , buT ONLY IN TRUTH .
AND EVERY WORD o GOD IS TRUTH . Someone lied to them all . And sadly they chose his lie , his love
believing it to be the Love of GOD . Oh a delusion has darn sure been unleashed .
@amigo de christo
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CrowCross

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Do you falsely believe that the dead are dead, not conscious and are unawares?
Yikes..quite a leap.
You go from Abraham seeing and understanding all about Jesus dying on the cross and resurrection while he was alive....to a dead Abraham watching it from the Bosom of Abraham.

Strange how these arguments morf.
 

Scott Downey

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Yikes..quite a leap.
You go from Abraham seeing and understanding all about Jesus dying on the cross and resurrection while he was alive....to a dead Abraham watching it from the Bosom of Abraham.

Strange how these arguments morf.
Abraham was not dead, cause all live to Him (God)
Abraham passed on (went the way of all flesh), his body died but his spirit endured.
And Abraham was most certainly conscious after departing this earthly life.

God speaks to Abraham, and he is going to be meeting his fathers in paradise. (that Abraham's bosom idea)
Genesis 15
14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.

15 Now as for you, you shall [a]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age.

16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
 
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CrowCross

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Abraham was not dead, cause all live to Him (God)
Abraham passed on (went the way of all flesh), his body died but his spirit endured.
And Abraham was most certainly conscious after departing this earthly life.

God speaks to Abraham, and he is going to be meeting his fathers in paradise. (that Abraham's bosom idea)
Genesis 15
14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.

15 Now as for you, you shall [a]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age.

16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
What-ever. Your original post made is sound like Abraham knew of Jesus and that He would die on a cross then resurrect while Abraham was still alive.
In fact you made it seem as if Abraham saw the event unfold while he was still alive.
 

covenantee

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Oh I don't mind that you think that.
But I don't think that.
Just as easy to say they speculated.

I know it is part of their systematic religious theology
In contrast to the multiplicity of differing opinions spawned by today's speculations, there was virtually unanimous consensus and agreement across the entirety of the early Church regarding what Paul did and did not say, and why.

It was a demonstration of true prophetic wisdom and discernment of Scripture, and affirmation and confirmation by history.

It was the antithesis of speculation.
 

covenantee

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I believe he talks about the gnostic doctrines.
Over the centuries, the falling away increasingly revealed itself to be the apostasizing papacy, which began to emerge after the imperial Roman Empire was "taken out of the way."
 
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