How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[Rockerduck]

really, you never presented yourself as a candidate for discipleship to the apostolic church (the faith community) received instruction in the christian faith, and baptism?

thks

Jesus calls me to what church I go to. No man tells me where to go. I follow Jesus only.

 

[Wrangler]

You have gathered a long list of commands, warnings, and evidences of spiritual life, then used them to support something none of them actually says. Scripture commands believers to obey, endure, pray, bear fruit, and follow Christ. But Scripture never says that Christ provides an “initial justification” and then waits for our works to finish saving us.

Paul did not leave this open for debate: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

Your reference to doth not comport with whateth we speaketh todayeth. Project, you do, your error on who disagrees with youest.

Seriously, the long list of commands, warnings, and evidences @faithhopecharity provided TOTALLY supports the idea that heaven will not be breached by lip service. Who are Jesus’ real brothers? Those who sit around, do nothing but claim their justification doesn’t depend on them? No!

is Paul you Lord and Savior? What does Christ teach are his real brothers?

 

[bdavidc]

Your reference to doth not comport with whateth we speaketh todayeth. Project, you do, your error on who disagrees with youest.

Seriously, the long list of commands, warnings, and evidences @faithhopecharity provided TOTALLY supports the idea that heaven will not be breached by lip service. Who are Jesus’ real brothers? Those who sit around, do nothing but claim their justification doesn’t depend on them? No!

is Paul you Lord and Savior? What does Christ teach are his real brothers?

Mocking the wording of Romans 4:5 does not answer it. It only shows you cannot refute it.

Paul is not my Lord. Jesus Christ is. But Paul wrote by Christ’s authority: “The things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” ~1 Corinthians 14:37.

Jesus said the Father’s will is that everyone who believes on the Son “may have everlasting life” ~John 6:40. He also said the believer “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

Works expose whether faith is real. They do not finish what Christ failed to finish. Salvation is “not by works of righteousness which we have done” ~Titus 3:5.

Stop setting Jesus against the apostle He sent. Your sarcasm does not erase Scripture.

 

[Armour of God]

This is a question I hate. Advocates say you should be 100% confidant but that doesn't seem humble to me.

How confidant are you? What does that say about your humility?

It doesn't seem humble to me either Wrangler.
Like when people say "I'm saved" past tense.
To me it looks like arrogance and pride to be so confident and sure of yourself, as if they know and understand everything. They cherry pick bible verses to make their case but reject others that go against it.

Besides none of us is actually saved until we die, it's a future event. The use of the past tense suggest their already in heaven while in reality their still on earth. Grammatically, the proper way to say it would be "I will be saved"
That's just my opinion anyway.

 

[Wrangler]

Mocking the wording of Romans 4:5 does not answer it.

Not answering my question does not answer it; Is Paul your Lord and Savior? The Messiah said IF we remain in him, he'll remain in us. This destroys your theology of OSAS and false justification no matter what we do.

Although there should be no doubt, Hebrews 10:26 makes explicit the folly of your position - IF we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Do you see that "IF" word again? It doesn't mean unconditional.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is for sure.
I guess it makes sense if we consider how God sets things in a kind of parallel order of design.

Light,dark, and so forth.

So, God has his church on Earth and so too does his adversary.

His adversary comes as an angel of light. Sadly to many people think he is the true light. We can just pray they realise it before it is too late..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you will have expound your assertion cos I don't know any such a person

thks

Read your posts..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It doesn't seem humble to me either Wrangler.
Like when people say "I'm saved" past tense.
To me it looks like arrogance and pride to be so confident and sure of yourself, as if they know and understand everything. They cherry pick bible verses to make their case but reject others that go against it.

Besides none of us is actually saved until we die, it's a future event. The use of the past tense suggest their already in heaven while in reality their still on earth. Grammatically, the proper way to say it would be "I will be saved"
That's just my opinion anyway.

Its sad that people claim they follow Christ. Yet deny all the promises Christ himself gave to those who recieve him.

Not sure what Armour you have on. But it does not appear to be the armour of God.. You may want to check that

 

[Wrangler]

It doesn't seem humble to me either Wrangler.

I think the question is of the Adversary. A trap.

I don't know how many times I've answered the question to well meaning evangelists who proceeded to bash me for giving a humble answer. There is no example in Scripture of Christ admonishing the humble for being humble.

Others attempt to twist the trap by saying it is not in themselves they are confident but someone else, i.e., God or Christ. This juxtaposition sounds like a statement of faith but really just moves the goal posts of hubris, a distinction without a difference.

When I reference the verse that says we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" as Scriptural support for why we should be humble about it, they launch into a false narrative railing against saving oneself. One theologian opined that knowing God is an equivalent expression of being confident in his decision regarding our ultimate fate.

Christ taught us not to sit at the front of a banquet out of humility. These braggarts open themselves up to be put in their place at the back - or out of the Kingdom. Humility is the first divine quality and this question aims to get God's children to abandon its virtue.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not answering my question does not answer it; Is Paul your Lord and Savior? The Messiah said IF we remain in him, he'll remain in us. This destroys your theology of OSAS and false justification no matter what we do.

Although there should be no doubt, Hebrews 10:26 makes explicit the folly of your position - IF we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Do you see that "IF" word again? It doesn't mean unconditional.

john destroys your hypothesis.
1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The author of Hebrews is right. if we deliberately keep on sinning (we live like we did before we claimed to know christ) there remains no more sacrifice. We are still under law. the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin.

The messiah said he will never leave nor forsake us
He said non will be lost
He said all given to him will be raised
He said they have eternal life. and they will never perish.

Do you trust the messiah. Or do you trust Wrangler?

From what I see. Like Armour of God. you all are trusting your own righteousness. and pumping your chest like the pharisee

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the question is of the Adversary. A trap.

I don't know how many times I've answered the question to well meaning evangelists who proceeded to bash me for giving a humble answer. There is no example in Scripture of Christ admonishing the humble for being humble.

Others attempt to twist the trap by saying it is not in themselves they are confident but someone else, i.e., God or Christ. This juxtaposition sounds like a statement of faith but really just moves the goal posts of hubris, a distinction without a difference.

When I reference the verse that says we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" as Scriptural support for why we should be humble about it, they launch into a false narrative railing against saving oneself. One theologian opined that knowing God is an equivalent expression of being confident in his decision regarding our ultimate fate.

Christ taught us not to sit at the front of a banquet out of humility. These braggarts open themselves up to be put in their place at the back - or out of the Kingdom. Humility is the first divine quality and this question aims to get God's children to abandon its virtue.

Here is the difference.

Our hope is in Christ. Our hope is in the promise, that he has given us eternal life. and He can not lie

Your hope is in Wrangler. and your hope is in the fact you HOPE you remain in christ and do not fall away.

You claim humility. But your whole gospel is of the flesh

 

[Wrangler]

Its sad that people claim they follow Christ. Yet deny all the promises Christ himself gave to those who recieve him.

What denial, to be arrogant about what your entitled to is a good thing?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What denial, to be arrogant about what your entitled to is a good thing?

I am entitled to hell my friend.. That is what I have earned.

I do however have an amazing God.. who did not want to send me to hell. So he sent his son so I could freed from the wage of sin.

The wage of sin is death. the GIFT of God is life.

To be humble enough to get on ones knees and cry out to God because they realise this fact. This is what saves.

Jesus made it clear. The poor in spirit will enter the kingdom. Not those who think they can earn their way into the kingdom.

To mock a person because they have faith in the god of the universe to keep his promise is just amazing. I never would have guessed it.

Then again, The jews crucified Christ..

 

[Wrangler]

The messiah said he will never leave nor forsake us
He said non will be lost

This is half the Gospel. The other half is those who don’t abide in Christ, those who call him Lord but he never knew, those who are not his brothers BECAUSE they don’t do the will of the Father.

Your theology undermines the only way to please God - through faith. There is a saying; keep the faith. That is our action, our burden - not one and done.

 

[David Lamb]

This is half the Gospel. The other half is those who don’t abide in Christ, those who call him Lord but he never knew, those who are not his brothers BECAUSE they don’t do the will of the Father.

Your theology undermines the only way to please God - through faith. There is a saying; keep the faith. That is our action, our burden - not one and done.

But surely if Christ says that He never knew them, they cannot have been saved/been in Christ in the first place. If they had once been saved, why did Jesus not say, "I no longer know you", rather than "I never knew you"? Jesus said:

(Joh 10:14) I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Biblical "hope" is the expectation we have due to our faith. Example, Jesus promised resurrection to those who believe, and so, believing, we expect to be resurrected. It's not the wistful, Oh I hope this will happen, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but I hope it does. It's a certain expectation because we believe God's Word.

Much love!

@marks, yes, we have hope for our future bodily resurrection because the Word of God says we will have it by God's great grace, but in one sense we already have Jesus' gift of resurrection in his gift of the new birth, as Paul says,

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

He goes on to say that since we are united with Christ, we have died to our old life through his death, and as we have seen that he has made us new through his resurrection.

Col 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

However, our new, resurrected life must grow with our increasing obedience to God's Word, as we take off the old nature and put on the new one (the rest of the chapter):

Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry....

Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is half the Gospel. The other half is those who don’t abide in Christ, those who call him Lord but he never knew, those who are not his brothers BECAUSE they don’t do the will of the Father.

Have never been saved.

Your theology undermines the only way to please God - through faith. There is a saying; keep the faith. That is our action, our burden - not one and done.

No. I teach the only way to please God and produce fruit is to abide in him in faith.

But I aslo teach the good news of Jesus..

He came to save me, and if I recieve his gift. He will do as he promised.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@marks, yes, we have hope for our future bodily resurrection because the Word of God says we will have it by God's great grace, but in one sense we already have Jesus' gift of resurrection in his gift of the new birth, as Paul says,

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

He goes on to say that since we are united with Christ, we have died to our old life through his death, and as we have seen that he has made us new through his resurrection.

Col 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

However, our new, resurrected life must grow with our increasing obedience to God's Word, as we take off the old nature and put on the new one (the rest of the chapter):

Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry....

Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

yes. we grow.

But is growing required to be saved (as some suggest)

 

[faithhopecharity]

Speak for yourself. As for me, I "sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

you died?
you were judged?



thks

Agreed. Sadly, the Roman Catholic Church has mi

I realize you don't.
You also don't believe Christ alone saves you.

You have my deepest sympathies.

sled billions of souls for many centuries.

yes Jesus Christ is the only savior!

happy now?

 

[faithhopecharity]

Good news to all people,yes. That does not say all people are saved.

If all were to be saved, Jesus would not have said salvation is conditioned upon God calling those whom he chooses to him.

Jesus was very clear in many passages as to whom God calls to his grace.

That's not what God says.

the point you made was not that "all people are saved" it was that all are not called!

thks