70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.

[William Barton]

.

o "Bible" is an English word stemming from Greek βιβλια (Biblia), Latin biblia = "the books." Our current Bible consisted of 66 prophetic books, arranged as "Old Testament" and "New Testament."

o A testament is an agreement between two parties that can never be rescinded by either party.

o 2Thessalonians 2:4 describes a man of lawlessness, who takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God. I would call that an abomination.

 

[covenantee]

IMO:
o 2Thessalonians 2:4 describes a man of lawlessness, who takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God. I would call that an abomination.

Is there other supporting Scripture that calls that an abomination?

o. "Bible" is an English word stemming from Greek βιβλια (Biblia), Latin biblia, = "the books." Our current Bible consisted of 66 prophetic books, arranged as "Old Testament" and "New Testament."

A testament is an agreement between two parties that can never be rescinded by either party.

A testament is a will. It can be entirely rescinded and rewritten by the testator prior to the testator's death, resulting in an entirely new testament which comes into full force and effect upon the testator's death, e.g. the New Testament in Christ's Blood at Calvary.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[quietthinker]

What is the point of 'debate' with one who insists the Earth is flat as opposed to a sphere?
What is the point of 'debate' with one who insists and denies Jesus' resurrection?
What is the point of 'debate' when the clarity of objective facts themselves are muddled?
Confusion is generated when the basis of the paradigm is misunderstood and insisted on.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Covenantee noted:

<no mention of abomination or antichrist in 2Thessalonians 2:4>

IMO:
o 2Thessalonians 2:4 describes a man of lawlessness, who takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God. I would call that an abomination.

o. "Bible" is an English word stemming from Greek βιβλια (Biblia), Latin biblia, = "the books." Our current Bible consisted of 66 prophetic books, arranged as "Old Testament" and "New Testament."

A testament is an agreement between two parties that can never be rescinded by either party.

How can any future physical temple be the temple of God when the temple of God is always one that God ordains and that He dwells in?

 

[William Barton]

Covenantee suggested

<A testament is a will>

IMO:
"Testament" = "a written record of a compact." (Webster's Third New International Dictionary)

"Compact" = "an agreement between two or more parties." (Webster's Third New International Dictionary)

The Old Testament was a set of rules to be followed, which none of us, in our current condition, can fully follow.

The New Testament looks to the sacrifice of Jesus on behalf of believers, paying our debt for us:

"Christ Jesus came into the word to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1Timothy 1:15)

The apostle Paul said that because he had persecuted Christians, accusing them of blasphemy, worshipping a mere man. Eventually Paul encountered Jesus, did an about face, and spent the rest of his life promoting the faith. According to tradition he died when Jews accused him of blasphemy, regarding a mere man to be God, and turned him over to the Romans for crucifixion. Since he was a Roman citizen he could not be beaten or crucified, rather according to tradition he was beheaded.

 

[William Barton]

How can any future physical temple be the temple of God when the temple of God is always one that God ordains and that He dwells in?

There is a temple of God in heaven and a temple of God on earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is a temple of God in heaven and a temple of God on earth.

The temple of God on earth is the church.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”

 

[covenantee]

"Testament" = "a written record of a compact." (Webster's Third New International Dictionary)

"Compact" = "an agreement between two or more parties." (Webster's Third New International Dictionary)

Hebrews 9:16 Greek

1242 [e]
diathēkē
διαθήκη ,
[there is] a will
N-NFS

The Old Testament was a set of rules to be followed, which none of us, in our current condition, can fully follow.

True.

The New Testament looks to the sacrifice of Jesus on behalf of believers, paying our debt for us:

Which Hebrews 9:15-17 declares.

 

[rwb]

Here is a partial cut / paste from my commentary on the book of Daniel - 9:27....

Part 1 of 4

The book of Daniel is not merely a historical record of four successive world empires—it is the most prophetic book in the Tanakh, a divine revelation centering on the Messiah and His plan of salvation for the Jews and for all mankind. He is not a distant figure in the backdrop; He is the main character, and the prophecy is His story—unfolded through kingdoms of His own choosing. From beginning to end, Christ is present in every chapter—visible to all who desire to see Him. But as with all spiritual truth, He can be missed... if one chooses to.


Daniel 9:24–27 is perhaps the most explicitly messianic passage in the Old Testament. These four verses point directly to the Anointed One who would fulfill God’s covenant and complete the work of restoration. But tragically, these verses have not gone untouched. The little horn, described in Daniel 7 and 8, has sought to distort, divert, and disguise the plain meaning of these verses, replacing the message of the Messiah with a counterfeit narrative. This is not speculation. It is part of a long-standing strategy to replace truth with tradition—and to substitute the Messiah’s completed work on the cross with an artificial future drama designed to remove accountability from the true prophetic target.

Within these four verses, several significant actors are mentioned:

The Messiah – the Anointed One, who confirms the covenant, is “cut off,” and fulfills the six objectives of verse 24.

The Jews (“your people”) – the covenant people to whom the seventy weeks are initially appointed.

The people of the prince who is to come – those of pagan Rome, whose descendants later align with the prince who rises to power after Jerusalem’s destruction.

The many – those who would accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, entering into the New Covenant.

It is vital to stay true to the Word of God, avoiding speculation, additions, or omissions. These verses are not about fabricated timelines or hypothetical antichrists—they are about God’s blueprint, His Son, and His plan of salvation. The Messiah is the Passover Lamb, the final sacrifice, and the Ark of the Covenant restored. He is the "He" referenced throughout this passage. A critical turning point in understanding this passage lies in properly identifying the pronoun “He” in Daniel 9:27a:

“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week…”

For centuries, it was understood—especially by the early Church and later by the Reformers—that this “He” refers to Jesus Christ, the Messiah. The context supports this:

He is the “Messiah the Prince” of verse 25, who arrives after the sixty-nine weeks.

He is the Messiah who is “cut off, but not for Himself” in verse 26, pointing clearly to the crucifixion.

And He is the one who confirms the covenant in verse 27, precisely in the middle of the final week, fulfilling the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31–34.

But in the 16th century, a major shift occurred. During the Protestant Reformation, the papacy was widely recognized as the little horn—the power that rose from pagan Rome and fulfilled the prophetic markers of Daniel 7 and 8. To deflect this identification, the Jesuit order, under Francisco Ribera, introduced a counter-interpretation known today as the “gap theory” or the “seven-year tribulation” model. This reinterpretation claimed that the “he” in Daniel 9:27 refers not to the Messiah, but to a yet future antichrist—a political or religious tyrant who would sign a treaty with Israel, break it after 3.5 years, and desecrate a rebuilt third Temple. But such a character is nowhere to be found in the Book of Daniel. Neither Daniel nor the rest of the Old Testament uses the term antichrist. In fact, the only four occurrences of that word are found in John’s epistles, and never in reference to a singular, end-time dictator.

Daniel instead gives us a clear antagonist: the little horn. He is described in precise terms—his origin, his timing, his character, and his actions. There is no ambiguity. The “antichrist” theory, as popularized in modern dispensationalism, is a theological invention—a distraction from the real historical and spiritual fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy.

Thus, in Daniel 9:27a, “He” confirms the covenant with many (not for a literal week, but during the final week of the prophecy.) And it is in this same week that He is crucified—bringing an end to the sacrificial system not by violence, but by fulfillment. The seventy weeks are complete in Christ. There is no prophetic pause, no 2,000-year gap inserted between verses 26 and 27, nor a 7 year tribulation theory. The prophecy moves in a seamless sequence: restoration, rejection, and consequence—all culminating in the Messiah’s ministry and the aftermath of His rejection.

The deliberate attempt to shift focus from Christ to a fictitious antichrist figure has successfully clouded the meaning of one of the most important messianic prophecies in all of Scripture.

It has hidden the identity of the little horn, removed the papacy from prophetic accountability, and distorted the very center of Daniel’s seventy-week vision: the cross. But when we let the Word interpret itself—within its immediate and broader biblical context—it becomes clear:

The “He” in Daniel 9:27 is Jesus, not a future dictator.

The “covenant” confirmed is the New Covenant, not a political treaty.

The final seven years are already fulfilled, not awaiting a future tribulation.

The prophecy is complete, not interrupted.

This is God's blueprint for salvation, unveiled through His servant Daniel. It is not about escaping the future. It is about recognizing what has already been done—in Christ—and receiving the gift of restoration He offers to both Jews and Gentiles alike.

I realize I'm very late to the discussion, so forgive me Charlie for raising this question late.

I'm in complete agreement with how you prove "He" speaks of the coming Messiah in Dan 9. I also agree that all that Daniel writes concerning "He" was fulfilled when Christ came to earth a man. I'm wondering since all that was written concerning Christ was fulfilled by Christ, how can you say "the people of the prince that shall come" is the Roman Army that came 30-40 years later?

Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The people of the prince are the apostate Jews, who spiritually destroyed Jerusalem and the Holy Temple with a flood; that is an overflowing deluge through spiritual fornication and total apostasy. The destruction by the Roman Army was not "with a flood." Their; the Jewish people's prince who was to come is also "He"; Christ, the Messiah. With this understanding there is no thirty-to-forty-year delay/gap for the prophesy of Daniel to be fulfilled. All must be fulfilled within the timeframe set by the prophetic words of Daniel.

 

[quietthinker]

Here come all the SDA cult members now with their 2 cents.

The idea that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week during His Ministry is a false doctrine from the UNBELIEVING JEWS. Many of the doctrines of JUDAISM has infiltrated the Seventh Day Adventist cult.

you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[rwb]

Here is a partial cut / paste from my commentary on the book of Daniel - 9:27....

Part 3 of 4

He Shall Bring an End

The “He” in this passage is not some future antichrist. It is Jesus Christ, the same “Anointed One” mentioned in verse 25. He is the One who confirms the covenant (v.27a), is cut off (v.26), and brings a final end to the Levitical system through the sacrifice of Himself. This is the Messiah, foretold and promised, not some malevolent figure inserted into prophecy by human reinterpretation centuries later. When He cried out on the cross, “It is finished” (John 19:30), it was not a cry of defeat but a proclamation of completion. His mission—defined by the six divine tasks in Daniel 9:24—was accomplished in full.

To Sacrifice and Offering

The phrase “He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering” directly addresses the Levitical system that had operated for over 1,500 years since Mt. Sinai.

Through His death on the cross, Jesus fulfilled every symbol and shadow represented in the sanctuary—every lamb, every sin offering, every annual atonement ceremony. All pointed to Him. At the very moment of His death:

The Temple veil was torn from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of the earthly priesthood and the removal of the barrier between God and man.​

The sacrifices were rendered obsolete, not by temple destruction or enemy invasion, but by the perfect sacrifice—the Lamb of God slain for the sin of the world.​

The covenant was confirmed—not abandoned, not replaced, but fulfilled in accordance with Jeremiah 31:31–34, where God promised to write His law upon our hearts.​

This was not symbolic theology or poetic vision. It was real, historical, and spiritual fulfillment. Within 3.5 years, Jesus had perfectly kept and fulfilled the Law, revealed the heart of the Father, and offered Himself as the final, once-for-all sacrifice (Hebrews 10:10–14).

This singular moment in Daniel 9:27b also resonates with the broader scope of prophecy—especially the 2,300 evenings and mornings (Daniel 8:14). The “cleansing of the sanctuary” began not with a third Temple or a future antichrist, but with Jesus entering the heavenly sanctuary as High Priest after His resurrection (Hebrews 9:11–14). The earthly temple had served its purpose. It was no longer the center of worship—heaven was.

The events of the cross were not isolated—they were deeply embedded in a divine timeline that included:

The seventy-week prophecy (Daniel 9)​

The 2,300-day vision (Daniel 8)​

The Passover fulfillment​

And the complete and permanent abolition of the Levitical system​

Everything aligned. Every symbol found its substance. Every shadow met its light. Jesus was not a casualty of human betrayal—He was the architect and finisher of salvation’s plan.

The seventy weeks were never random. They were designed to lead us to this very moment: the cross. This is the centerpiece of time. It divides covenants, fulfills prophecy, and makes reconciliation possible.

By the middle of the final week, Jesus did exactly what Daniel foretold.​

He brought an end to sacrifice and offering.​

He fulfilled the covenant.​

He opened the way to eternal life.​

No future “week” is necessary. No future temple needs to be rebuilt.​

It is finished.​

​

The blood of Christ on the cross also proves the apostasy of Jesus' kinsmen according to the flesh, who cried "crucify Him". From the moment of His crucifixion, the city and the temple became completely desolate exactly as Christ said they had. The desolation of the city and temple didn't come years later through Roman armies, it was already desolate even before the cross, and the crucifixion was to speak the "final nail in their coffin". The city and temple from the moment the vail of the temple was rent ceased to be holy unto God. The desolation made complete. There is no gap of 30 to 40 years in the prophesy of Daniel. All came to pass within the prophet's timeframe.

Matthew 23:37 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:38 (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[rwb]

My post was about the whole text in Daniel ch. 9.

When this chapter is read simply, without drowning in ambiguous details and useless speculations, it says that 490 years is left for the nation of Israel and the city, then the Messiah will come and then the end will come, the destruction of the temple and of the city.

All happened in the 1st century and Jesus referred to this chapter, when He was warning His disciples to flee when they will see the Roman legions preparing around Jerusalem.

Since 70 AD, everything is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is growing and transforming the world and nations.

In order for the prophesy to be fulfilled within the timeframe given by Daniel, the destruction of the city and temple must also be fulfilled within that time. And it was, just as the prophet Daniel foretells. From the moment the vail was torn the city and temple ceased to be holy. It was not the literal physical destruction of 70 AD that made the city and temple an abomination unto God. The apostate nation became an abomination unto God through spiritual fornication and apostasy turning away from God long before the advent of Christ. The crucifixion shows how spiritually abominable the apostate people had become. The Kingdom of God has been growing with the Gospel being proclaimed, transforming people who believe on Christ from darkness and death into His marvelous Light and eternal life from the moment Christ came with Kingdom of God.

 

[rwb]

Agree with you but the details are truly amazing.

Charlie are you also Preterit or Partial Preterit?

 

[rwb]

But highly speculative.

1. The book of Daniel is not well preserved, there are many different textual versions. Just Greek manuscripts have like three different versions.

2. Both Hebrew and Greek words and sentences in there are ambiguous and can be translated and understood in many ways, which creates a lot of confusion.

3. And on the top of that, the prophetic language as such is ambiguous even in English (who could know that for example the abomination of desolation was specifically about Roman legions until Jesus said that?)

Trying to decipher imprecise ambiguous data leads to the much confusion we can see when people talk about Daniel. Or about the book of Revelation, for example. I do not think that the frequent enmity, personal attacks and endless arguments that come with it are worth the speculation.

It would be amazing if done in a friendly and academic manner, which is hard to do in online forums.

If the prophesy of Daniel 9 references the Roman Army in 70 AD, that would mean the prophesy was NOT fulfilled within the time set by the prophet Daniel. You force a 30-40 year gap/delay the prophesy says nothing about.

 

[rwb]

There's no antichrist in Daniel 9 or anywhere else in the OT. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew or Aramaic.

The abomination of desolation referred to in Matthew 24:15 is identified in the parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20.

It was the Roman armies, who destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

If the prophesy of Daniel 9 is ALL fulfilled within the time of the cross, why does Daniel not also write of this 30 to 40 year delay?

 

[rwb]

Daniel declares "Seventy weeks are determined..."

That means all seventy.

But If one seven remains, then it is decapitated, orphaned, and undetermined, and thus the entire seventy weeks are also undetermined.

But all seventy are determined, with the seventieth fulfilled by Christ during His first coming.

Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks (Daniel 9:26), in the midst of the seventieth week. (Daniel 9:27)

He confirmed His New Covenant with Israel for that week. (Matthew 26:28)

Christ is not antichrist.

Your claim fails.

I agree Covenantee! How do you reconcile placing a gap of 30-40 years between the crucifixion and the destruction of the city and temple in 70 AD? If all seventy weeks (490 years) must be fulfilled, and in fact were fulfilled, wouldn't you agree that when the vail of the temple was torn from top to bottom fulfilled all?

The prophesy had been speaking of Messiah the Prince who was to come. I believe Daniel is still speaking of the same Messiah after saying He would be cut off, Daniel still speaks of Messiah the same Prince when he writes "the people of the prince (Messiah) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary". The city and temple had become an abomination unto God just as Daniel foretells. Therefore, the city and temple ceased to be holy from the moment the curtain of the temple was torn from top to bottom. The final abomination committed by the people (apostate Jews) of the Messiah (His kinsmen according to flesh) who was to come set the clock for utter destruction that would be thirty to forty years after the cross and not part of the prophetic words of Daniel for all that would come to pass 490 years later.

Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The blood of Christ on the cross also proves the apostasy of Jesus' kinsmen according to the flesh, who cried "crucify Him". From the moment of His crucifixion, the city and the temple became completely desolate exactly as Christ said they had. The desolation of the city and temple didn't come years later through Roman armies, it was already desolate even before the cross, and the crucifixion was to speak the "final nail in their coffin". The city and temple from the moment the vail of the temple was rent ceased to be holy unto God. The desolation made complete. There is no gap of 30 to 40 years in the prophesy of Daniel. All came to pass within the prophet's timeframe.

Matthew 23:37 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:38 (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

There is absolutely nothing that says the destruction of the city and the sanctuary had to occur during the 70 weeks. The destruction of earthly Jerusalem and the temple buildings was a residual effect of the Jews having rejected Christ and His establishment of the new covenant by way of His shed blood.

Jesus Himself prophesied the physical destruction of the city and the sanctuary (Matthew 24:1-2,15-22, Mark 13:1-2,14-20, Luke 19:41-44, Luke 21:6-7,20-24), so there is no reason to think that isn't what Daniel 9:26-27 is referring to. You don't have to be a preterist to believe this, but that's apparently what you think.

 

[William Barton]

l
Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

IMO:
o. I would say "sevens" (Hebrew שבים) rather than "weeks," since English "week" = "seven days." This IMO is not indicated here, rather "seven" in this context = "seven years," where "year" = 360 days.

o. "People of the coming ruler" are the Romans, who indeed destroyed the temple, leaving not one stone upon a stone (Mark 13:2).

 

[covenantee]

If the prophesy of Daniel 9 is ALL fulfilled within the time of the cross, why does Daniel not also write of this 30 to 40 year delay?

The latter portions of Daniel 9:26,27 were fulfilled in 70 AD. @Spiritual Israelite has elucidated well in post 237.

 

[CTK]

Charlie are you also Preterit or Partial Preterit?

I have no idea! I have attempted to interpret Daniel along with the other many verses in other books the best I can. But thank you for all of your comments and thoughts.