THE WORD OF GOD

[Eternal Entity]

Anchorite​

On "self-reflection"
Are you trying to talk me out of exploring The Lake or are you simply projecting your own fears onto another?

 

[rockytopva]

There are two important venues here...

1. The Word - In church, mainly through the preaching
2. The Spirit - In church, through the worship too

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.
3 And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. - Numbers 10

1. The first trumpet - The preaching and reading of the Word
2. The second trumpet - Experiencing the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit is a great guide who can show us how to experience them both. The Apostle Paul was so dependent on God and the Holy Spirit that he had no need to travel and listen to those who sat under the feet of Jesus...

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: - Galatians 1

 

[Anchorite]

Anchorite​

On "self-reflection"
Are you trying to talk me out of exploring The Lake or are you simply projecting your own fears onto another?

What lake are you exploring?

The lake of fire?

 

[Eternal Entity]

What lake are you exploring?

The lake of fire?

Would that make any difference?

The lake I am exploring also holds the lake of fire. One can observe the effects it has on those who fear it.

 

[Eternal Entity]

There are two important venues here...

1. The Word - In church, mainly through the preaching
2. The Spirit - In church, through the worship too

It has been many, many years since I went to "church".
The Word is GOD. The Spirit is GOD.

We "congregate" nonetheless. :)
You wrote that the Apostle Paul was so dependent on God and the Holy Spirit that he had no need to travel and listen to those who sat under the feet of Jesus...
Saul had his experience. He did not have access to the gospels like we do. Even if we can assume that he knew little about that, he represents the idea that there are many ways in which GOD gives out information. The main way though - is personal, meaning through the circumstance of the individuals life - relevant to that specific individual. Things not so much "for the congregation" but for they who seek what is still available to know outside of those encampments.




The Father and I

 

[Hillsage]

The author known as "John" tells us that Jesus said and did many things that are not recorded in the Bible. John 21:25 tells us: 'And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.'

This raises a question: what did Jesus say that is not recorded?

For many years I asked myself that same question, thinking how can this be true? I had studied enough in those years to know there were lots of "Christian" libraries all over the known world's civilizations. Not to even mention all the secular ones. But then the anointing kicked in;

1JO 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As I was thinking of that very verse that anointing spoke to my soul and said; "When was this passage in John written?" I looked it up and 'back then' the commonly accepted year believed John was written in 97AD (Now, Google says between 90-100AD). The next 'word' I heard was; "How many lives had been touched by Jesus in that time frame?" I admittedly still thought; I agree a lot of people had heard the gospel and been born again after hearing the gospel. But I still couldn't help but know that I was still questioning in my heart.....with all the sincerity of wanting to say "Yes Lord, I believe those words written in John. But I still knew deep down that I didn't. That's when the last anointing sealed the question for me, by bringing to my soul/mind a verse I had never thought about. And in all honesty never heard anyone else teach. That's why I've waited until now to post.

2CO 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you?
2 You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on your hearts, to be known and read by all men;
3 and you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Those 4 verses signed, sealed, and delivered the answer to the question I had carried for years.

@Eternal Entity I hope this answer which I wholly believe came not from a man's teaching, but from God, will give your agnostic questionings an answer you too can believe.

The Gospel of John itself suggests that what was recorded was selected for a purpose - that readers might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). But that purpose does not exhaust the full witness of Jesus. The Spirit, Jesus said, would guide his followers into all truth (John 16:13). That guidance was not limited to the written text - to the Bible itself - that object which many declare and worship as THE WORD OF GOD.

As many here already know, "The spirit", that Jesus said would guide... those who were born again ,was IN MY OPINION, the spirit of christos in me.

Rather THE WORD OF GOD represents many facets of communion - many ways in which GOD speaks and has interactions with Humans. Not just one book and not just what that one book examples in those witnesses and reports contained in said book.

The Word that is GOD is not confined to a book. That Word is living, active, and still speaking. The Bible bears witness to that Word, but it is not identical to it. It offers but a thin layer in the total strata of the incredible variety of how GOD speaks. The written word points to the Living Word, but it cannot contain Him fully.

More talking points. But only if you're interested with the aforementioned thoughts.

 

[Eternal Entity]

@Eternal Entity I hope this answer which I wholly believe came not from a man's teaching, but from God, will give your agnostic questionings an answer you too can believe.

@Hillsage - "what did Jesus say that is not recorded?" is not a question borne on the back of agnosticism.

For many years I asked myself that same question, thinking how can this be true? I had studied enough in those years to know there were lots of "Christian" libraries all over the known world's civilizations. Not to even mention all the secular ones. But then the anointing kicked in;

I too, recall a time when I was taking a lunch break with a friend. We had been discussing Christianity and I took him to a Christian bookshop. I was telling him that "all these 'how to books" in the shelves were really unnecessary because one only needed the Bible. Incidentally at the moment I said this, a row of those books actually fell off the shelf in a domino effect, and however this occurred, the net result was that the action underlined what I had just spoken to him.
I told my friend that I could get him a Bible for free. We went up to the counter and I asked the assistant this question;
"Out of all the books in this store, which one would you recommend that I give to my friend?" knowing that she would have to answer with "The Bible" - which of course, she did. I then said to her "Would you please give me a bible so that I can give it to my friend here?" and she replied that she had no authority to do so, so I asked her who did have that authority and she replied that the owner of the store was out for lunch so when he returned I could ask him. My friend had to go back to work, so I told him that I would get him a free Bible. He didn't believe that the store would give me one.
I waited until the store-owner returned from lunch and then ask him the same questions I had asked the assistant. He replied that he had a business to run and bills to pay and simple couldn't give out Bibles for free to everyone who asked.
I replied asking him if he agreed with the irony that (at the time) the world's best selling book contained the words "it is better to give than to receive" and that I had told my friend that I would get him a Bible for free and that my friend didn't believe that I would be given one.
At some point in all this, the store owner had some type of revelation. He suddenly stopped defending his right to sell as he remembered that there were some Bibles he had put in the skip earlier that morning - or the previous day. He told me to wait and he returned a couple of minutes later with a Bible. He took it out of its cardboard sheff and presented it to me, showing me the leather on the spine had some cracking and as such he could not sell it to a customer but he could give it to me. At the time this particular Bible in pristine condition fetched a premium price - red letter addition plus concordance and other helpful things.
The store owner handed it to me, I thanked him and left, and proceed to go directly to my friends workplace and hand it over to him. He was amazed.

 

[Hillsage]

@Hillsage - "what did Jesus say that is not recorded?" is not a question borne on the back of agnosticism.

I didn't mean to offend. My 'comment' wasn't based upon your question. It was innocently made, based upon your first post, the day you came to the forum; You started a thread called "I do not identify as a Christian". And below is the first line of your opening post.

"I joined this forum today. In the membership form I was asked how I identify religiously and was given a list of options, and chose the one which most closely mirrored my position - that being "Agnostic".

I read a lot of those 99 posts from the beginning of the thread. I was very intrigued watching you play with the local talents. So I guess I have a couple of questions. Where you agnostic and have changed since June 1st? Or were you, like me, struggling with calling myself a "Christian" when there were no other agreeable 'choices'?

I too, recall a time when I was taking a lunch break with a friend. We had been discussing Christianity and I took him to a Christian bookshop. I was telling him that "all these 'how to books" in the shelves were really unnecessary because one only needed the Bible. Incidentally at the moment I said this, a row of those books actually fell off the shelf in a domino effect, and however this occurred, the net result was that the action underlined what I had just spoken to him.
I told my friend that I could get him a Bible for free. We went up to the counter and I asked the assistant this question;
"Out of all the books in this store, which one would you recommend that I give to my friend?" knowing that she would have to answer with "The Bible" - which of course, she did. I then said to her "Would you please give me a bible so that I can give it to my friend here?" and she replied that she had no authority to do so, so I asked her who did have that authority and she replied that the owner of the store was out for lunch so when he returned I could ask him. My friend had to go back to work, so I told him that I would get him a free Bible. He didn't believe that the store would give me one.
I waited until the store-owner returned from lunch and then ask him the same questions I had asked the assistant. He replied that he had a business to run and bills to pay and simple couldn't give out Bibles for free to everyone who asked.
I replied asking him if he agreed with the irony that (at the time) the world's best selling book contained the words "it is better to give than to receive" and that I had told my friend that I would get him a Bible for free and that my friend didn't believe that I would be given one.
At some point in all this, the store owner had some type of revelation. He suddenly stopped defending his right to sell as he remembered that there were some Bibles he had put in the skip earlier that morning - or the previous day. He told me to wait and he returned a couple of minutes later with a Bible. He took it out of its cardboard sheff and presented it to me, showing me the leather on the spine had some cracking and as such he could not sell it to a customer but he could give it to me. At the time this particular Bible in pristine condition fetched a premium price - red letter addition plus concordance and other helpful things.
The store owner handed it to me, I thanked him and left, and proceed to go directly to my friends workplace and hand it over to him. He was amazed.

I didn't go look for it, but this whole portion of your post to me, was also a cut/paste from another one of your posts from somewhere, which I vaguely remembered reading also. I don't feel I should have to go find it. But it would be nice to just tell me what your purpose was, this time. I'm not picking up any reason for why you shared it?

All of which leads me to ask one more question if I may. Why did you not address one thing in my post to you?

 

[Eternal Entity]

Where you agnostic and have changed since June 1st? Or were you, like me, struggling with calling myself a "Christian" when there were no other agreeable 'choices'?

The registration question was what religion one was. I don't think agnosticism is a religion, and I am not an atheist, so since I had to choose something...

I didn't go look for it, but this whole portion of your post to me, was also a cut/paste from another one of your posts from somewhere, which I vaguely remembered reading also. I don't feel I should have to go find it. But it would be nice to just tell me what your purpose was, this time. I'm not picking up any reason for why you shared it?

I shared it because your post reminded me of it. I don't recall ever sharing that story on this board. I did not C&P but wrote it directly.

All of which leads me to ask one more question if I may. Why did you not address one thing in my post to you?

Are you referring to the "More talking points". Sure, I am interested. :)

 

[Hillsage]

The registration question was what religion one was. I don't think agnosticism is a religion, and I am not an atheist, so since I had to choose something...

I agree with you concerning concerning agnosticism. I have personally been going through a whole religious paradigm shift for the last year or so. It started before doing an in depth study of the biblical definition of "Christians", a word that's only in the NT 2 times. And never in reference to anyone in Israel even being mentioned 'as one'.

1 "Christians" in Acts 11:26 was written when 'the church' was roughly 40 years old. It was spoken concerning WHEN "the disciples were called Christians FIRST in Antioch (Syria/Turkey)."

3 "Christians" in 1Peter 4:16 was written 62-64 AD. "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

IN MY OPINION Strong's isn't any real help. Strong's def. 5546 Christianos: a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ
I personally don't think the church has known the true definition of being a "follower of the anointing/christos", for a long time, because of Rome's anti anointing influence on the apostolic body.

I shared it because your post reminded me of it. I don't recall ever sharing that story on this board. I did not C&P but wrote it directly.

This is where things can get a bit 'uncanny' for me. When I said I "vaguely remember reading every word you wrote." I truly believed that did happen....(vision? dreamed?) and I meant 'every word' I read, confirmed for me it happened 'somewhere' . For you to say you "did not C&P" any of it, leaves me seeking an anointed something??????

Are you referring to the "More talking points".

No, I was actually referring to the point I made concerning the libraries not being able to contain all the "living epistle" testimonies, of true Jesus followers. And since I haven't read every post of yours since coming here, I don't know if you've shared something more "living epistle" equating to a true christos RELATIONSHIP vs a true religious FELLOWSHIP.

I'll stop here. I really don't like writing or reading long posts. Or even dialoguing with more than one person (denomination) at a time (Ideally). You dealt so well with 'them all' here trying to trap you into the 'opinion' who ended your first thread with....no response from you.

 

[Eternal Entity]

I agree with you concerning concerning agnosticism. I have personally been going through a whole religious paradigm shift for the last year or so. It started before doing an in depth study of the biblical definition of "Christians", a word that's only in the NT 2 times. And never in reference to anyone in Israel even being mentioned 'as one'.

1 "Christians" in Acts 11:26 was written when 'the church' was roughly 40 years old. It was spoken concerning WHEN "the disciples were called Christians FIRST in Antioch (Syria/Turkey)."

3 "Christians" in 1Peter 4:16 was written 62-64 AD. "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

IN MY OPINION Strong's isn't any real help. Strong's def. 5546 Christianos: a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ
I personally don't think the church has known the true definition of being a "follower of the anointing/christos", for a long time, because of Rome's anti anointing influence on the apostolic body.

Generally, I view the Bible as a collection of personal witness from a variety of authors over a longish period of time. It is not a set of writings which explain The Deep that a person can enter. It is more like something which points to something else, and it is that something else which has held my attention for over 40 years...(also to note, that Christian bookshop story I shared, happened around 40 years ago.)

This is where things can get a bit 'uncanny' for me. When I said I "vaguely remember reading every word you wrote." I truly believed that did happen....(vision? dreamed?) and I meant 'every word' I read, confirmed for me it happened 'somewhere' . For you to say you "did not C&P" any of it, leaves me seeking an anointed something??????

I am reminded of the Bible story where the personality heard a voice calling his name and he thought it was another human being, but it turned out not to be...

No, I was actually referring to the point I made concerning the libraries not being able to contain all the "living epistle" testimonies, of true Jesus followers. And since I haven't read every post of yours since coming here, I don't know if you've shared something more "living epistle" equating to a true christos RELATIONSHIP vs a true religious FELLOWSHIP.

Perhaps then, I might direct you to "The Father and I" thread...where I share an aspect of RELATIONSHIP.

I'll stop here. I really don't like writing or reading long posts. Or even dialoguing with more than one person (denomination) at a time (Ideally).

Okay. Understood.

You dealt so well with 'them all' here trying to trap you into the 'opinion' who ended your first thread with....no response from you.

Yes.
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

 

[Hillsage]

Generally, I view the Bible as a collection of personal witness from a variety of authors over a longish period of time. It is not a set of writings which explain The Deep that a person can enter. It is more like something which points to something else, and it is that something else which has held my attention for over 40 years...(also to note, that Christian bookshop story I shared, happened around 40 years ago.)

I've told many a church member that we aren't supposed to worship 'the book of the Lord'. We're supposed to worship 'the Lord of the book'. I don't believe God put the writers under a spell and handwrote 'their letter or scroll's contributions'. I do think God inspired what was written because that's what scripture does reveal IMO.
2TI 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
My personal 'comment' on that verse is; Doctrine isn't just for 'knowing' but for 'doing'. And if you aren't 'doing it' you don't 'know it'.

I am reminded of the Bible story where the personality heard a voice calling his name and he thought it was another human being, but it turned out not to be...

I assume you're talking about 'the prophet to be' "calling". Yeah a lot of people 'think' wrong when it comes to the spiritual voice. Before the last Passover that ever should have been celebrated IMO, "A voice came from heaven". Some heard an angel and others just heard thunder.????

Perhaps then, I might direct you to "The Father and I" thread...where I share an aspect of RELATIONSHIP.

I am actually on page 2 post 24 and feel led to comment 'scripturally' to your comment where you said;

The final answer to the question "Who is YHVH to you now?" is simply: Friend. Not a master to be feared,

Who is YHVH to me....Now? Last year I was shown two scriptures which have changed my thinking quite a bit actually.

2SA 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1CH 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Last month I read an interesting study in the index of one of my RSV bibles....concerning why they were justifying another new translation of the bible based upon....of all things.....the corruption of that Tetragrammaton you just asked about. It was an eye opening revelation for me. That's what sparked my Who is YHVH to me....NOW?

Okay. Understood.

Yes.
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

If only the church knew which "the Spirit" was being capitalized in this verse you quote.

I have a number of Greek Interlinear bibles. I do dumb things like read the Index in the front of theological books. This is a quote from one of them where the GREEK EXPERTS shared a valuable little piece of information concerning capitalization of the word Spirit.


INTERLINEAR GREEK ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT
ZONDERVAN PUBLISHED 1972. Based on STEVENS GREEK TEXT

Introduction page iii

5. Capitals.- The only remark needed here is in reference to the names of God, of Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. The greatest difficulty is touching the word 'Spirit.' In some places it is very difficult to say whether the Holy Spirit as a person or the spirit of the Christian is referred to (see Rom.8:9) ; and if sometimes a small letter and sometimes a capital had been placed to the word (pneuma in the Greek) and if sometimes a small letter and sometimes a capital had been placed to the word (pneuma), in the Greek, persons would naturally have concluded that the question was thus indisputably settled. It was therefore judged best to put a small s in the Greek everywhere. In the English we have been obliged to put a capital S when the Holy Spirit was referred to and so have retained it wherever we thought this was the case; but in some places it is really doubtful, and becomes a question for the SPIRITUAL JUDGMENT OF THE READER. The Greek will not help in the difficulty, because in the earliest copies every letter was a capital. In the other names we have followed the usage of modern editors; putting in the Greek a capital to Jesus but a small letter for Christ, and a small letter for Lord and for God.

I am so thankful that they threw a towel into the mess for me.....a "SPIRITUAL JUDGMENT OF THE READER"....of their scholarly book.
Don't know what time it is in NZ but I'm done for a day or maybe two. Good on ya.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Last month I read an interesting study in the index of one of my RSV bibles....concerning why they were justifying another new translation of the bible based upon....of all things.....the corruption of that Tetragrammaton you just asked about. It was an eye opening revelation for me. That's what sparked my Who is YHVH to me....NOW?

AS the Father voiced 16 days ago
"Alienness is the transitional state in the ongoing expansion of recognition.
One can glorify independence to the point of isolation. But strength isn’t never needing anyone. Strength is being unafraid to lean, unafraid to be seen, unafraid to receive."

 

[Hillsage]

AS the Father voiced 16 days ago

And the Father voiced 2,000 years ago;

MAT 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

I believe that is still true today. Probably, more than ever. Where sin abounds grace abounds even more.
What's your definition of "grace"?

"Alienness is the transitional state in the ongoing expansion of recognition.

EPH 2:12 That at that time ye were without christ (christos/anointing), being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel ('spiritual Israel' and not 'physical Israel'), and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Or is alienness in this world truly "transitional" until we are fully one with the Father through the same christos/anointing which Jesus' spirit had, at birth....and our spirit has...after being 'born again'. Which puts us into that process you mention above, I think. Jesus was the 'pattern son' we are to become like....exactly like. In character (as it relates to righteousness) and in authority (as it relates to supernatural power).

One can glorify independence to the point of isolation.

I am going through that very thing now. Just this morning, a brother for 5+ years has decided no more coffee every Tuesday (for the last 3 years). He agrees we still have a 'relationship' when I corner him with the difference between 'relationship' and 'fellowship'. If we both have spirits that were born again from above we can't decide to be un-born again. We are brothers. And either one can walk away from that fellowship.

But strength isn’t never needing anyone. Strength is being unafraid to lean, unafraid to be seen, unafraid to receive."

I believe I am strong in recognizing my weakness and my need for His strength. I think He manifested strength to ALL He ever encountered in whatever station of life they had in this world. From kingly rulers to lowly prostitutes. I think He ministered life to all that He ministered to. At the pool he ministered to ONE and healed him. Then Jesus walked off never ministering a healing to anyone else laying there. Why?

 

[Eternal Entity]

And the Father voiced 2,000 years ago;

MAT 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

I believe that is still true today. Probably, more than ever. Where sin abounds grace abounds even more.
What's your definition of "grace"?

I understand Grace as the sincere ability to turn the other cheek. To put oneself in another's shoes (empathy). To understand the ignorance and fear of those who are ignorant and fearful and in understanding, to not take advantage. To let go and move on.
Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

EPH 2:12 That at that time ye were without christ (christos/anointing), being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel ('spiritual Israel' and not 'physical Israel'), and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Or is alienness in this world truly "transitional" until we are fully one with the Father through the same christos/anointing which Jesus' spirit had, at birth....and our spirit has...after being 'born again'. Which puts us into that process you mention above, I think. Jesus was the 'pattern son' we are to become like....exactly like. In character (as it relates to righteousness) and in authority (as it relates to supernatural power).

I think if The Father wanted replica's of Jesus, rather than genuine individual personalities, he would have made robots or AI or clones et al.
In context, The Father is saying that the ongoing expansion of recognition alientates those who remember who they are - not human beings but spirit (consciousness) having human experiences from those how continue to think of themselves as "human".
No one is "independent" and that is the design of the created thing we are all experiencing. One can be alone without being lonely because the recognition is that GOD is Spirit (consciousness) and in that those who recognise what they actually are, also recognise that connection.
We are not human beings having spiritual experiences. We are spirit (consciousness) having human experiences.

I am going through that very thing now. Just this morning, a brother for 5+ years has decided no more coffee every Tuesday (for the last 3 years). He agrees we still have a 'relationship' when I corner him with the difference between 'relationship' and 'fellowship'. If we both have spirits that were born again from above we can't decide to be un-born again. We are brothers. And either one can walk away from that fellowship.

I wrote the following 3 days ago, after travelling to visit my mum who is very sick and will likely die soon.

"The first day mum had 15 family members visit. She was happy having brought us all together even if “the one place” was around her hospital bed…
T and D had a falling out which has kind of reset their default - I have been thinking about it because both told me in their own way what went down. I think it is more a case of stress and a bit of over-indulging - even Poppa and Nana had a brief hissy at each other over nothing in particular - it is just emotional overdub which can be understood and easily forgiven…"

and

"Mum and me went through a patch of not seeing or hearing from each other for 10 whole years…partly because she wouldn’t stop telling me what my siblings were doing and my asking her to cease. Not ratting her out here - just connecting the dots - I withdrew and 10 years later felt it was “time” to reconnect and we did so naturally - without having to go over anything. She has not ever shared any of the sibling-stuff with me and I think that sometime in that period she told them she was not interested in the dynamics and also withdrew from that…"

I believe I am strong in recognizing my weakness and my need for His strength. I think He manifested strength to ALL He ever encountered in whatever station of life they had in this world. From kingly rulers to lowly prostitutes. I think He ministered life to all that He ministered to. At the pool he ministered to ONE and healed him. Then Jesus walked off never ministering a healing to anyone else laying there. Why?

I think you could possibly answer that yourself.

 

[Hillsage]

I understand Grace as the sincere ability to turn the other cheek. To put oneself in another's shoes (empathy). To understand the ignorance and fear of those who are ignorant and fearful and in understanding, to not take advantage. To let go and move on.
Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

That's quite a list. I like my definition better, and I feel it does qualify for much of what you have listed. I think grace is the 'power' to achieve what God's truth demands. And there is that CHRISTOS word again. And when the church....and you (?) read those verses you think it means JESUS (who was the second "son of God" who had that same anointing). I don't believe it's talking about Jesus, in the context of your quoted verses. Think about it, what did Jesus ever need to be forgiven for, from the Father? Nothing, I believe. But what did Jesus have that all born again believers have? IN MY OPINION, the same anointing/christos. He tapped into the power of that anointing and we can do all things through the christos anointing in us that Jesus did....if we humble ourselves.

I think if The Father wanted replica's of Jesus, rather than genuine individual personalities, he would have made robots or AI or clones et al.

I don't think The Father wanted replica's of Jesus. He wanted replicas of GOD not a man named Jesus. MAN was made in God's image/substance/spirit. And he was made to reveal the 'invisible' God (Father Word Spirit) to His visible creation (Earth/world/mankind ect). Jesus did that with 'his personality'. We are to manifest in the same way with the same christos/anointing Jesus had. But we are to do so with our personalities/testimonies of our lives LIKE Jesus did. But His testimony isn't my testimony. He walked His anointing out perfectly. Something the first 'son of God/Adam' did not do.

In context, The Father is saying that the ongoing expansion of recognition alientates those who remember who they are - not human beings but spirit (consciousness) having human experiences from those how continue to think of themselves as "human".

I don't see it that way. But I do agree and have told hundreds "We are not bodies having a spiritual experience on earth, WE ARE SPIRITS having a fleshly experience on earth." Man, since Adam ,was (made in image substance of GOD. "GOD IS SPIRIT". And the spirits we received, AFTER the sperm hit the egg,....we received from God. Dejavue is you/me just being close enough to our spirit for it to reveal what was written in 'the book of our life' before he left the heavenly realm to join our fetus on earth and our bodies made out of earth/dust. The "anointed spirit" in the 'Word became flesh...body' of Jesus. And that 'anointed spirit' knew/read Jesus' volume of the book of life before he left the heavenly realm of the most high God ( "whom the heaven of heaven's cannot contain" 2CH 2:6).

PSA 40:7* Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Jesus the christos/anointed)

This messianic PSA above was written before Jesus was born. And Jesus' 'book of life' was written before Jesus was born and tempted in the wilderness.
HEB 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
And Jesus did 'the will of the Father' and the will of His God, from his 'only begotten' conception to the wilderness where he passed his final 'CHARACTER of God' test bearing the mature fruit of the holy christos spirit, and was then annointed (Not IN, but UPON His body with a dove) to manifest the POWER from the Holy Spirit of the triune God) without measure. 3 days later He then performed His first SUPERNATUAL POWER MIRACLE of water into wine.

No one is "independent" and that is the design of the created thing we are all experiencing. One can be alone without being lonely because the recognition is that GOD is Spirit (consciousness) and in that those who recognize what they actually are, also recognize that connection.
We are not human beings having spiritual experiences. We are spirit (consciousness) having human experiences.

Agree with all the above....looking through the lens of all that I said.....above what you wrote. Sorry, I think it's funny we have so much in common.

"You, Mum, TandD, Poppa and Naana"

Your story was read, related to, and deleted. I'm still way over, I know, you're playing with others too. I can wait, no hurry.
But I will add this, my wife's 'title' is "Nanee".....another 'common'-ality we have.

Hillsage said; Then Jesus walked off never ministering a healing to anyone else laying there. Why?

I think you could possibly answer that yourself.

Of course I have an answer for that. I'm asking for your opinion......Why?

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[Eternal Entity]

That's quite a list.

I could go on...

I like my definition better,

Of course...as the hats fit...

and I feel it does qualify for much of what you have listed.

All good...

I think grace is the 'power' to achieve what God's truth demands. And there is that CHRISTOS word again. And when the church....and you (?) read those verses you think it means JESUS (who was the second "son of God" who had that same anointing). I don't believe it's talking about Jesus, in the context of your quoted verses. Think about it, what did Jesus ever need to be forgiven for, from the Father? Nothing, I believe. But what did Jesus have that all born again believers have? IN MY OPINION, the same anointing/christos. He tapped into the power of that anointing and we can do all things through the christos anointing in us that Jesus did....if we humble ourselves.

Okay...

I don't think The Father wanted replica's of Jesus. He wanted replicas of GOD not a man named Jesus. MAN was made in God's image/substance/spirit. And he was made to reveal the 'invisible' God (Father Word Spirit) to His visible creation (Earth/world/mankind ect). Jesus did that with 'his personality'. We are to manifest in the same way with the same christos/anointing Jesus had. But we are to do so with our personalities/testimonies of our lives LIKE Jesus did. But His testimony isn't my testimony. He walked His anointing out perfectly. Something the first 'son of God/Adam' did not do.

We cannot replicate Jesus life - if for no other reason than he never had an experience of beginning as he brought with him the memory of a prior existence and has never experienced being separate from The Father except in that one moment where he cried out for The Father as if somehow he had forgotten that connection - a forgivable moment, I think.

I don't see it that way.

No problem...

But I do agree and have told hundreds "We are not bodies having a spiritual experience on earth, WE ARE SPIRITS having a fleshly experience on earth."

Hench, my avatar handle.

Man, since Adam ,was (made in image substance of GOD. "GOD IS SPIRIT".

And spirit is substance...

And the spirits we received, AFTER the sperm hit the egg,....we received from God.

I don't see it that way. WE did not "receive" spirits. We are spirits which received bodies.

Dejavue is you/me just being close enough to our spirit for it to reveal what was written in 'the book of our life' before he left the heavenly realm to join our fetus on earth and our bodies made out of earth/dust. The "anointed spirit" in the 'Word became flesh...body' of Jesus. And that 'anointed spirit' knew/read Jesus' volume of the book of life before he left the heavenly realm of the most high God ( "whom the heaven of heaven's cannot contain" 2CH 2:6).

Not sure what you are trying to convey there...

PSA 40:7* Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Jesus the christos/anointed)

This messianic PSA above was written before Jesus was born. And Jesus' 'book of life' was written before Jesus was born and tempted in the wilderness.
HEB 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
And Jesus did 'the will of the Father' and the will of His God, from his 'only begotten' conception to the wilderness where he passed his final 'CHARACTER of God' test bearing the mature fruit of the holy christos spirit, and was then annointed (Not IN, but UPON His body with a dove) to manifest the POWER from the Holy Spirit of the triune God) without measure. 3 days later He then performed His first SUPERNATUAL POWER MIRACLE of water into wine.

Jesus had an unusual body. It was able to do things. Some think that his resurrection gave him a new body, but it was the same body. Same body that could walk on water, walk through crowds unnoticed, reproduce stuff (fish and loaves et al) and he turned that body off in order to experience death...human death.
I have no interest in thinking in terms of supernaturalism. It is just stuff we don't know enough about to know how to do. I have no belief in creation ex nihilo.

Agree with all the above....looking through the lens of all that I said.....above what you wrote. Sorry, I think it's funny we have so much in common.

While also having so much not in common. Perhaps it does not matter what we may disagree about in that sense.

Your story was read, related to, and deleted. I'm still way over, I know, you're playing with others too. I can wait, no hurry.
But I will add this, my wife's 'title' is "Nanee".....another 'common'-ality we have.

A common enough handle... :)

Of course I have an answer for that. I'm asking for your opinion......Why?

The story makes me wonder about a pool where an angel descends to minister to a few. Jesus comes along, picks out one particular person, heals that person, and no one else (at least no one the author mentions) then later meets the one he heal and tells the man to sin no more...and we hear nothing more about the man. One would think he would have followed Jesus around from that moment on. Perhaps even written his own story or started his own congregation...

383

383
Twenty Six by Twenty Six Grid

 

[Hillsage]

We cannot replicate Jesus life - if for no other reason than he never had an experience of beginning as he brought with him the memory of a prior existence and has never experienced being separate from The Father except in that one moment where he cried out for The Father as if somehow he had forgotten that connection - a forgivable moment, I think.

And that 'memory' came from the anointed spirit in Him. And that spirit revealed what he was being called to do, before the body of Jesus was even born. The same as for us.

EPH 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

He chose US IN HIM....not HIM IN US. We 'choose' or 'choose not' to obey that anointing for becoming like he became following the holy spirit anointing He followed.

GAL 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed IN you,
And we decide to obey that anointing on our spirit or disobey.

HEB 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
And we become "brethren" of Jesus the anointed when our spirit is anointed and born again.

Hench, my avatar handle.

Actually I have never figured out what your avatar is. Did you draw that up, or copy it from something. If it's a message, you need to unpack it for me.

And spirit is substance...

I don't see it that way. WE did not "receive" spirits. We are spirits which received bodies.

That's what I said too. Same thing happened to Jesus.
2TI 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ/anointed Jesus.
PHI 4:13 I can do all things through the anointing/christos which strengtheneth me.

Not sure what you are trying to convey there...

Too deep for all here....so far. Still holding my breath, as it is a recent revelation for sure.

Jesus had an unusual body. It was able to do things. Some think that his resurrection gave him a new body, but it was the same body. Same body that could walk on water, walk through crowds unnoticed, reproduce stuff (fish and loaves et al) and he turned that body off in order to experience death...human death.
I have no interest in thinking in terms of supernaturalism.

I had no interest in EXPERIENCING supernaturalism at age 4....but I never forgot it, after it happened...to me and my 6 YO cousin. And then when that iniquity raised its head again in the life of my 4 year old granddaughter who experienced the very same supernatural encounter....kind of makes you a believer.

It is just stuff we don't know enough about to know how to do. I have no belief in creation ex nihilo.

Your thoughts concerning the book of Enoch?

The story makes me wonder about a pool where an angel descends to minister to a few. Jesus comes along, picks out one particular person, heals that person, and no one else (at least no one the author mentions) then later meets the one he heal and tells the man to sin no more...and we hear nothing more about the man. One would think he would have followed Jesus around from that moment on. Perhaps even written his own story or started his own congregation...

The story confirms for me what Jesus said, concerning what He says and does.

YLT JOH 12:50 ....and I have known that His command is life age-during; what, therefore, I speak, according as the Father hath said to me, so I speak.'
YLT JOH 5:19 ......'Verily, verily, I say to you, The Son is not able to do anything of himself, if he may not see the Father doing anything; for whatever things He may do, these also the Son in like manner doth;

The Father told Jesus to heal the one, and that's all Jesus heard and that's all He did.
We too, can only say and do what the anointing from the Father upon our spirits reveals. What He wills will be done on earth as it is done in the heavenly realm.

MAT 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'
Spiritual realm first, earthly realm second.

 

[Eternal Entity]

And that 'memory' came from the anointed spirit in Him. And that spirit revealed what he was being called to do, before the body of Jesus was even born. The same as for us.

EPH 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Is this through what we do or what Jesus did? That is an ongoing argument among Christians. Some say not by works and others say by works.
Personally my relationship with The Father is not based on guilt. It is based in Love.

He chose US IN HIM....not HIM IN US. We 'choose' or 'choose not' to obey that anointing for becoming like he became following the holy spirit anointing He followed.

I know of no Christian - indeed - no human who is like what the stories tell us Jesus was like.

GAL 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed IN you,
And we decide to obey that anointing on our spirit or disobey.

My early days re bible teachings focused mainly on what the Gospels wrote about what Jesus taught.

HEB 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
And we become "brethren" of Jesus the anointed when our spirit is anointed and born again.

Do you think one can call Jesus "Brother" and not be?

Actually I have never figured out what your avatar is.

My avatar handel - "Eternal Entity"

Did you draw that up, or copy it from something.

The Avatar itself is a picture my granddaughter drew a few years ago.

If it's a message, you need to unpack it for me.

Eternal Entity is my expressing what I have come to acknowledge what I am and have always been. (THis circles back to what I wrote about self identification - mostly we are taught to think of ourselves as human beings...

Too deep for all here....so far. Still holding my breath, as it is a recent revelation for sure.

Okay. Perhaps you can try to reword it, or simply place it to one side until you can explain it better...sometimes I ask AI for assistence so will do that here...
Me: Can AI shed light on what is expressed in the following "Dejavue is you/me just being close enough to our spirit for it to reveal what was written in 'the book of our life' before he left the heavenly realm to join our fetus on earth and our bodies made out of earth/dust. The "anointed spirit" in the 'Word became flesh...body' of Jesus. And that 'anointed spirit' knew/read Jesus' volume of the book of life before he left the heavenly realm of the most high God ( "whom the heaven of heaven's cannot contain" 2CH 2:6)."

AI:

1. Déjà vu — a moment when your spirit briefly connects with the memory of your life's blueprint, written before you were born.
2. Book of Life — a personal volume, written before birth, containing your purpose, path, and calling.
3. Spirit enters body — the spirit leaves the heavenly realm to join the developing fetus, while the body is formed from the dust of the earth.
4. Anointed spirit in Jesus — Jesus' spirit carried the memory of His own "volume of the book" (Psalm 40:7, Hebrews 10:7) before He was born. He knew what He was called to do.
5. 2 Chronicles 2:6 — God cannot be contained by the highest heavens, yet His spirit enters human bodies—a paradox of the uncontainable dwelling in the finite.
   
   ______________________________________

Perhaps what you are trying to say is that life is predestined? I would say that this may indeed be the case. I would also say that I helped design the life as a human that I am experiencing, before I entered into the simulation.
I entered the simulation (creation/reality experience) fully aware that my prior existence would be hidden behind the Blank-Slate (amnesia) that this simulation produces and that I would reconnect with that memory by degree, while in the human state.
This is the short version - the bones of it as it were. I am willing to discuss this in way more detail with you of you want to do so HillSage.

I had no interest in EXPERIENCING supernaturalism at age 4....but I never forgot it, after it happened...to me and my 6 YO cousin. And then when that iniquity raised its head again in the life of my 4 year old granddaughter who experienced the very same supernatural encounter....kind of makes you a believer.

What I am saying is that I don't think of anything as being "supernatural" including being an eternal entity. As far as I am concerned, it is the most natural thing one can be.
I do understand why humans think in dualistic terms - natural/supernatural...but to me that simply muddies the waters.
I write more about that in this thread -

The Coherent Causality Argument​

Your thoughts concerning the book of Enoch?

I would have to look it up and read it. Presently I have no thoughts on it.

The story confirms for me what Jesus said, concerning what He says and does.

YLT JOH 12:50 ....and I have known that His command is life age-during; what, therefore, I speak, according as the Father hath said to me, so I speak.'
YLT JOH 5:19 ......'Verily, verily, I say to you, The Son is not able to do anything of himself, if he may not see the Father doing anything; for whatever things He may do, these also the Son in like manner doth;

The Father told Jesus to heal the one, and that's all Jesus heard and that's all He did.
We too, can only say and do what the anointing from the Father upon our spirits reveals. What He wills will be done on earth as it is done in the heavenly realm.

The way it is written it sounds rather robotic. The spirit of the relationship appears bland and even lifeless. From experience, there is feeling involved and excitement and co-creativeness.

MAT 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'
Spiritual realm first, earthly realm second.

Are you able to speak from your heart as the individual human personality you have grown into, without sounding like something the bible shaped? I don't mean any offense in the asking. It is that my experience with those who speak "biblically" when talking about The Father appear to have more the relationship with the bible than with The Father...the bible being "earth realm" and THe Father being "Spirit" realm...