What does it mean to be "born again"?

[JimKnox]

Born again = passed from death to life.
Why complicate this?

 

[Rockerduck]

Birth fluid is not water at all.
It's amniotic fluid.
Jesus is wise.
It's highly improbable that Jesus got this simple fact mixed up.

Besides, if Jesus was talking about 2 separate events he would of said "water THEN spirit"
But the fact that he says "water AND spirit" is a clear indication that he is talking about one singular event

Jesus said you must be Born of Water and Born of the Spirit. Jesus didn't stutter, its very plain what He meant. Nicodemus got it, why can't you?

 

[PS95]

Actually we are born by amniotic fluid.
It's not water at all.
Jesus is wise and it's highly improbable that he would get water and amniotic fluid mixed up.

I was merely referring to Jesus' quote- that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit its spirit. John 3:6

We are first born flesh-- then, by the Spirit. You were asking about being born again, right? That's all I was addressing.

 

[PS95]

You make a good point there

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, you made some good points worth considering

You are more than welcome. I'm glad it helped. I was taught very WRONG about Ro 6 by the Jws- it's ridiculous what they teach on that-- When I received Jesus my as Lord and Savior- and read Ro 6 apart from man's teachings it became very clear to me. It's really very beautiful.

 

[Armour of God]

Symbolic language requires a different mindset. Jesus isn't using "terminology". He's using imagery of familiar things to explain spiritual things. "Putting words to something that has no words", a phrase used by an old preacher of mine. Jesus is, of course, famous for His parables. Same principle.

If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? (John 3:12).

Considering you actually agree with me about the water I don't really understand your objection to my opinion about it.
There are people here who disagree with you but your only arguing with me who you agree with.
You just appear to be antagonising me

 

[Lambano]

You just appear to be antagonising me

I'm just working through things out loud. Don't mind me.

 

[Armour of God]

Jesus said you must be Born of Water and Born of the Spirit. Jesus didn't stutter, its very plain what He meant. Nicodemus got it, why can't you?

Actually, Nicodemus didn't get it at all.

John 3:10
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

The modern claim that water refers to amniotic fluid is an erroneous one in my opinion. I think the ancient interpretation makes much more sense, that the water spoken about is baptismal water

 

[Armour of God]

I was merely referring to Jesus' quote- that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit its spirit. John 3:6

We are first born flesh-- then, by the Spirit. You were asking about being born again, right? That's all I was addressing.

Sorry. I think I was trying to answer someone else and accidentally referred to you

 

[Armour of God]

I'm just working through things out loud. Don't mind me.

I just don't understand what your objection is to my opinion when it is actually the same as yours.
There are others who disagree with you.
Wouldn't it make more sense to argue with them who disagree with you

 

[Davy]

I was merely referring to Jesus' quote- that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit its spirit. John 3:6

We are first born flesh-- then, by the Spirit. You were asking about being born again, right? That's all I was addressing.

And that's correct. Lord Jesus was not referring to baptismal water, but to being born in woman's womb. That part Nicodemus well understood. And with what Jesus said in verse 6 confirms He was pointing to being born in the flesh.

This idea of only those born in the flesh are offered Christ's Salvation one could say, even extends to what the fallen angels of Genesis 6 did with leaving their original estate and taking wives of flesh woman. They coveted what flesh born men had.

 

[Lambano]

I just don't understand what your objection is to my opinion when it is actually the same as yours.

We're not quite of the opinion, as I'm hearing you advocate sacramentalism - the belief that religious rites (such as baptism or the Eucharist) have a real ontological effect on reality. If that's not your belief, now is the time to say so and explain what you do believe. But my objective isn't to bring you around to my point of view; my objective is to better understand the concept of being "born again" - what happens, how it happens, how to make it happen, how you know it happened.

More important, my brother (and I insert the filial term intentionally here as a reminder to myself that those here are my brothers and sisters), is that I seem to be coming across as antagonistic. That's NOT what I want, and I'm going to have to review my own behavior to see where I need to make corrective actions.

You've been a good conversation partner, for which I thank you.

 

[Rockerduck]

Actually, Nicodemus didn't get it at all.

John 3:10
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

The modern claim that water refers to amniotic fluid is an erroneous one in my opinion. I think the ancient interpretation makes much more sense, that the water spoken about is baptismal water

He understood the being born of a woman, that Jesus was talking about.

 

[Soyeong]

What does this term "born again" mean to you?

And how can you be sure you are "born again"?

How does "water and spirit" apply to your understanding of being born again?

The term comes from the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. What do you make of the fact that the rest of the chapter, immediately aftet this conversation, is focused on baptism?

Being a child of someone is about being in their image through being a doer of their character traits, such as with John 8:39, where Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doers of the same works as him. God's way is the way to know Him through embodying His character traits, such as with Genesis 18:19 where God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that he promised.

The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God, so that is what it means for him to be the Son of God and what it means for us to be born again as children of God when we are partaking in the divine nature through following his example. This is why those who are are not doers of righteousness in obedience to the Law of God are not children of God (1 John 3:10) and why Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God (Romans 8:4-14).

So the way for someone to be sure that they are born again is if they are embodying God's character traits. God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, so that is what it means to be born of the Spirit. Being born of water refers to the amniotic fluid that surrounds the fetus during pregnancy. Baptism is also symbolic of giving birth.

 

[Armour of God]

He understood the being born of a woman, that Jesus was talking about.

So that i can better understand your position, can you please explain to me what your interpretation of born again is, what connection it has with being born of the spirit and its connection with the rest of chapter 3 which clearly has a lot of baptising in it?

 

[Armour of God]

We're not quite of the opinion, as I'm hearing you advocate sacramentalism - the belief that religious rites (such as baptism or the Eucharist) have a real ontological effect on reality. If that's not your belief, now is the time to say so and explain what you do believe. But my objective isn't to bring you around to my point of view; my objective is to better understand the concept of being "born again" - what happens, how it happens, how to make it happen, how you know it happened.

More important, my brother (and I insert the filial term intentionally here as a reminder to myself that those here are my brothers and sisters), is that I seem to be coming across as antagonistic. That's NOT what I want, and I'm going to have to review my own behavior to see where I need to make corrective actions.

You've been a good conversation partner, for which I thank you.

"sacramentalism"

I never said anything like that.
You said being born of water symbolises baptism. I agree

 

[Rockerduck]

So that i can better understand your position, can you please explain to me what your interpretation of born again is, what connection it has with being born of the spirit and its connection with the rest of chapter 3 which clearly has a lot of baptising in it?

Being Born again from above is all the work of God who draws you, however, you can pray to receive Jesus. But your heart must be right. drop all pride and submit to Jesus and be willing to give everything up in your honest heart. Then believe that Jesus rose from the dead, and then tell/pray to Jesus with your own words that you want His salvation for you.

 

[Armour of God]

Being Born again from above is all the work of God who draws you, however, you can pray to receive Jesus. But your heart must be right. drop all pride and submit to Jesus and be willing to give everything up in your honest heart. Then believe that Jesus rose from the dead, and then tell/pray to Jesus with your own words that you want His salvation for you.

Does it happen in one moment or over time?

 

[Rockerduck]

Does it happen in one moment or over time?

Most are instantly, However, it is God's timing and control. God is Sovereign over all aspects of your salvation.

 

[Armour of God]

Most are instantly, However, it is God's timing and control. God is Sovereign over all aspects of your salvation.

Well I've listened to the arguments for this modern day interpretation of born again but in my opinion they don't stack up compared to the view of the early church.

I believe, as the ancient Christians did, that being born again has something to do with baptism, at the very least. Given water and spirit, the fact that the rest of John 3 talks a lot about baptism and the fact that a type of water baptism-like ceremony was already in existence among the Jews.

 

[Rockerduck]

Well I've listened to the arguments for this modern day interpretation of born again but in my opinion they don't stack up compared to the view of the early church.

I believe, as the ancient Christians did, that being born again has something to do with baptism, at the very least. Given water and spirit, the fact that the rest of John 3 talks a lot about baptism and the fact that a type of water baptism-like ceremony was already in existence among the Jews.

Are you talking about around Pentecost for ancient Christians? If so Acts 2:47- Praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Notice it is the Lord who adds to the church. So if you wanted water baptism, how would you know it was of the Lord? The way I explained is of the Lord. However, back at that time a fulfilling of the Prophet Joel's prophesy in Joel 2:28-29 -That I will pour my Spirit on all flesh; was given to the Jews first. As the Apostles spoke about Jesus, the Holy Spirit fell on them. This is evidenced in Acts 10:44 -While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. The Apostles had more power and could do more miracles than after the Apostles.