The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[LoveYeshua]

Not really though, many consider Jesus' Name to be Jehosuah. I've heard other forms also. It's all guesswork, meanwhile, we have inspired Scritpure to tell us.

Much love!

The man we call Joshua in English has the Hebrew name:

יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yehoshua)

In later Hebrew, especially after the exile, this was commonly shortened to:

יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua)

For example, in books like Ezra and Nehemiah, the high priest Jeshua is actually Yeshua in Hebrew.

 

[marks]

The man we call Joshua in English has the Hebrew name:

יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yehoshua)

In later Hebrew, especially after the exile, this was commonly shortened to:

יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua)

For example, in books like Ezra and Nehemiah, the high priest Jeshua is actually Yeshua in Hebrew.

Yes, I understand. That doesn't change the fact that the inspired Scriptures call Him 'Iesous. God could have inspired them to write other names, but He gave this Name, Jesus, and declared it to be the only Name by which men must be saved.

Regarding "Jeshua" and "Yeshua", my understanding is that Hebrew doesn't have a "soft G" sound. So that while we'd say Joshua, they would say Yeshua, no "J" sound. Jacov would be Yacov, Benjamin would be Benyamin, like that.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

It's Jesus.

You shall call His Name Jesus . . . said the angel.

The angel spoke English to the little Jewish girl named Mary?

How did Mary learn the English language to understand the angel?

 

[marks]

The angel spoke English to the little Jewish girl named Mary?

How did Mary learn the English language to understand the angel?

'Iesous

 

[LoveYeshua]

'Iesous

YESHUA is his name....we can do this all night.... lol

just a note: names are so important that the Jews of old have hidden the true name of GOD, so we would nor desecrate it or use it in vain and break a Commandment. We have YHWH in some bibles but the vowels are missing, I suspect the head of religious Jewish groups have the full name but they wont tell anyone...in some bibles like the one I use in french they also write YAHWEH but is this the correct form? we will know one day soon.

 

[Wick Stick]

That Name is Jesus, from the Greek 'Iesous. Yeshua is what some men presume Jesus may have been called, but it's not Bible.

In the earliest manuscripts, the name is usually abbreviated to just ΙΣ or ΙΥ.

Also, that form of abbreviation is used primarily for the names of deities.

 

[David in NJ]

'Iesous

The angel Gabriel spoke Greek to Mary?

How would you know?

 

[Anchorite]

i give praise to the Lord Jesus Christ = everyday

What do you and @Anchorite have against Yeshua HaMashiach?

I do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic, so I do not call Jesus by His name in Hebrew or Aramaic.

I grew up on hymns. In the hymn books, the Savior’s name is always given as Jesus, not Yeshua.

In my King James, NLT, ESV, and other versions of the Bible in my home library, His name is Jesus.

When I witness to people, I talk about Jesus. They would not know what I meant if I said Yeshua.

 

[David in NJ]

I do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic, so I do not call Jesus by His name in Hebrew or Aramaic.

I grew up on hymns. In the hymn books, the Savior’s name is always given as Jesus, not Yeshua.

In my King James, NLT, ESV, and other versions of the Bible in my home library, His name is Jesus.

When I witness to people, I talk about Jesus. They would not know what I meant if I said Yeshua.

Me too

i also speak to Jewish people about the LORD and when i do i use the name Yeshua HaMashiach

Do you think i'm being disrespectful to the English name 'Jesus' for doing that?

 

[PS95]

Directly addressing someone isn't how prayer is defined in the Bible though. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of instances in which others are called upon or directly addressed in the Bible so that doesn't really give the idea that Stephen "prayed" to Jesus. Where does the Bible ever instruct anyone to "Pray to Jesus?"

First of all, with regard to Stephen praying to Jesus in Acts 7-
They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

Only someone with a preconceived agenda would say that Stephen did not pray to Jesus there. Of course, he did. The word, "called" "epikaloumenon in Greek means to invoke.
It is the same word used in Romans 10:13 --For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
-----
-- Secondly, John 14:14 Jesus clearly said that not only can we ask Him things, but He is the one who answers.
“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

This already points to the glory referred to in John 14:13,
“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

1437 [e] 14 ean 14 ἐάν 14 If 14 Conj​

5100 [e] ti τι anything IPro-ANS​

154 [e] aitēsēte αἰτήσητέ you ask V-ASA-2P​

1473 [e] me με me PPro-A1S​

1722 [e] en ἐν in Prep​

3588 [e] tō τῷ the Art-DNS​

3686 [e] onomati ὀνόματί name N-DNS​

1473 [e] mou μου , of me PPro-G1S​

1473 [e] egō ἐγὼ I PPro-N1S​

4160 [e] poiēsō ποιήσω . will do [it] V-FIA-1S​

This already points to the glory referred to in John 14:13,
“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 15:16; John 16:23 Compare.
We either accept Jesus as who He says He is, or fight against Him and His own words.

1 John 5
11And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has [d]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [e]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

2 Corinthians 12-

7Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[Wick Stick]

We have YHWH in some bibles but the vowels are missing,

The vowels aren't missing. You're talking about the niqqud - the diacritical marks added to the Hebrew language by the Masoretes roughly 2,000 years after the Old Testament was originally written. They aren't original to the text, so nothing is missing.

The Masoretes added the niqqud to remove ambiguity from the text... specifically, to eliminate Christian readings of the text. You shouldn't trust those guys.

in some bibles like the one I use in french they also write YAHWEH but is this the correct form? we will know one day soon.

Fairly confident that it isn't. I don't know the correct pronunciation, but I know a little Hebrew grammar. The Y is a prefix onto H1961 or H1933 (same root, meaning exist), so it probably says ye- rather than yah.

The letter H says Hay by default and can also say Ay. You can make it say Hoe or Hee but it doesn't become -aH or -oH.

Other than that... H and W can be vowels or consonants, and each has 2 sounds as a consonant, so there are a lot of potential variants.

 

[PS95]

Ethelbert, there is one Name given in the Bible for our Savior, Jesus. Why do you refuse His given Name?

Why would you argue over this? Yeshua is fine, so is Yehoshua, and so is Jesus.
He knows who He is, and He knows if we know Him and He knows who we call on.
Be at peace.

 

[Runningman]

No it wasn't an instruction, it was demonstration. Stephen prayed to the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven. He addressed Jesus in heaven making petition of Him.

If that's not prayer . . . what is?

Much love!

I wouldn't say that would be a prayer since speaking to someone in heaven isn't necessarily what defines a prayer. For example, Apostle John still on earth spoke to an elder in heaven in his vision in Revelation 7:13,14. Stephen, on earth, in his vision of Jesus, spoke to someone in heaven too. So we can see that just speaking to someone in heaven isn't automatically a prayer or else one could say John way praying to an elder. So I still maintain that isn't a demonstration of praying to Jesus in Acts 7.

 

[Runningman]

You seem to think that praying is some formal ritualistic behavior, but actually prayer is simply talking to God.

Where in the Bible is prayer defined, as you understand it?

When the martyr Stephen called upon Jesus, if he wasn’t praying, what was he doing?

He was just calling out to Jesus or addressing Jesus. Just addressing someone isn't a prayer is it?

Here's a question, why does the word "pray" or "prayer" never appear in the Bible when they wrote about people speaking to Jesus?

 

[Grailhunter]

What is an instruction? An instruction may be defined as a direction or an explanation to enable one to know what to do, or to do something. An instruction can be a command, a piece of advice, training, an explanation, or a procedure.

What is the only Biblical instruction on how to pray in the Bible?

Jesus instructed his disciples how to pray:

Matthew 6​

6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.​

9So then, this is how you should pray:​

‘Our Father in heaven,​

hallowed be Your name.​

Aside from what is in Matthew 6:6,9 there are no other instructions on who to pray to in the Bible. The only instruction on prayer in the Bible is to the Father.

Can it be argued that Jesus was prayed to in the Bible? It's possible to argue that, but does it ever teach, instruct, or command Christians to pray to anyone other than the Father? No.

So don't pray to Yeshua and see how it works out for you.
Sometimes the obvious is over looked.....The scriptures do not say to urinate either.
So do not pray to Yeshua and do not urinate.

 

[Runningman]

First of all, with regard to Stephen praying to Jesus in Acts 7-
They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

Only someone with a preconceived agenda would say that Stephen did not pray to Jesus there. Of course, he did. The word, "called" "epikaloumenon in Greek means to invoke.
It is the same word used in Romans 10:13 --For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
-----
-- Secondly, John 14:14 Jesus clearly said that not only can we ask Him things, but He is the one who answers.
“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

This already points to the glory referred to in John 14:13,
“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

1437 [e] 14 ean 14 ἐάν 14 If 14 Conj​

5100 [e] ti τι anything IPro-ANS​

154 [e] aitēsēte αἰτήσητέ you ask V-ASA-2P​

1473 [e] me με me PPro-A1S​

1722 [e] en ἐν in Prep​

3588 [e] tō τῷ the Art-DNS​

3686 [e] onomati ὀνόματί name N-DNS​

1473 [e] mou μου , of me PPro-G1S​

1473 [e] egō ἐγὼ I PPro-N1S​

4160 [e] poiēsō ποιήσω . will do [it] V-FIA-1S​

This already points to the glory referred to in John 14:13,
“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 15:16; John 16:23 Compare.
We either accept Jesus as who He says He is, or fight against Him and His own words.

1 John 5
11And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has [d]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [e]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

2 Corinthians 12-

7Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

You are saying Jesus was "prayed" to when that isn't what it says at all. You quoted some verses about "calling upon" Jesus and "imploring" the Lord which doesn't even mention Jesus as who that Lord is. Let's take a quick look at each of your points.

1. In regards to Acts 7:59, 60, the main point seems to be that the usage of "epikaloumenon" means prayer, but does it? In Acts 25:11-12 and Acts 26:32, Paul invoked Caesar, but no one says Paul prayed to Caesar do they?

2. As far and Romans 10:13 goes, where Paul referenced Joel 2:32 and and said "everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." where "LORD" in all uppercase letters refers to the divine name of YHWH, a name Jesus is never called once in Scripture. So there we once again do not have an example of praying to Jesus.

3. As far as John 14:14 goes, that doesn't say "Ask me for anything in my name" in the textus receptus, as the word "me" is entirely missing from the earlier versions of the Greek manuscript. Meaning, "me" in John 14:14 is a later addition, not original. Furthermore, in John 16:23 Jesus clarified and said "whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you." This is all in line with my first post where the only Biblical instruction in all of Scripture is to pray to the Father. We see Jesus saying "Ask the Father in my name" as the Biblical example.

4. In 1 John 5:11-14, we know based on precedent of asking the Father in the name of Jesus (John 15:16, John 16:23, 1 John 3:22) that when John wrote "if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us" that the primary antecedent in the 1 John 5:11-14 passage is the Father. John taught to ask the Father.

5. In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, we have already established precedent from several verses that Jesus was never prayed to in the Bible, nor were any explicit instructions given to pray to him, nor any clear examples of him being prayed to, so the Lord being referenced in this passage is the Father. They implored the Father as Lord because we know from Acts 3:19,20 that there is a Lord who sends Jesus Christ.

So there is still nothing clear about praying to Jesus in any of those verses. A simple "pray to Jesus" verse would probably settle this. I find it interesting that is missing from the Bible. Any thoughts on why?

 

[Debp]

When I witness to people, I talk about Jesus. They would not know what I meant if I said Yeshua.

That is correct. We need to use the words people will understand. If one is talking with a Jew, then one can use the Hebrew name for Jesus. Otherwise I say Jesus.

 

[Anchorite]

He was just calling out to Jesus or addressing Jesus. Just addressing someone isn't a prayer is it?

Here's a question, why does the word "pray" or "prayer" never appear in the Bible when they wrote about people speaking to Jesus?

We are still waiting for your definition of prayer and praying.

You can attack the idea of praying to Jesus all you want.

Meanwhile, I will continue to talk to the Father when that seems appropriate and talk to Jesus when that seems appropriate.

Your arguments are unconvincing, for you quibble over semantics and quarrel over precise word usage, while never defining your own terms.

There is nothing in the Bible that authorizes us to sing songs about Jesus, but we do it.

Rather than drawing out principles from general spiritual realities, you demand certain words to be attached to certain actions. Like a Pharisee, you must have specific instructions to do something, otherwise you will not do it.

In King James English, to pray meant to beseech, as in “I pray thee, let me go!”

So yes, any time a person spoke to Jesus, asking questions or begging for help, they were praying.

 

[PS95]

You are saying Jesus was "prayed" to when that isn't what it says at all. You quoted some verses about "calling upon" Jesus and "imploring" the Lord which doesn't even mention Jesus as who that Lord is. Let's take a quick look at each of your points.

1. In regards to Acts 7:59, 60, the main point seems to be that the usage of "epikaloumenon" means prayer, but does it? In Acts 25:11-12 and Acts 26:32, Paul invoked Caesar, but no one says Paul prayed to Caesar do they?

Ok RM- as usual, you "can" if you choose to. put the Lord Jesus on the same playing field as Caesar, but I don't recommend it. Did Stephen ask Caesar to "RECEIVE HIS SPIRIT"?
Why didn't Stephen ask the Father to receive His Spirit like Jesus did?
How you can't connect this is beyond me.
I think you don't want to. I have dealt with enough Jws to know what you will say before you say it. You are a lot alike. Can't wait to see what you did to Romans 10!

2. As far and Romans 10:13 goes, where Paul referenced Joel 2:32 and and said "everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." where "LORD" in all uppercase letters refers to the divine name of YHWH, a name Jesus is never called once in Scripture. So there we once again do not have an example of praying to Jesus.

haha You ignored what I said. What I said was the same word is used here- do you think it does not mean to PRAY/INVOKE there?

3. As far as John 14:14 goes, that doesn't say "Ask me for anything in my name" in the textus receptus, as the word "me" is entirely missing from the earlier versions of the Greek manuscript. Meaning, "me" in John 14:14 is a later addition, not original. Furthermore, in John 16:23 Jesus clarified and said "whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you." This is all in line with my first post where the only Biblical instruction in all of Scripture is to pray to the Father. We see Jesus saying "Ask the Father in my name" as the Biblical example.

I'm aware of the kjv- big deal. Take it out for all I care- doesn't make a difference to me. Why did Jesus say HE ANSWERS PRAYERS? If you can't pray to Him why does He answer them?

John 16:23 in the Greek can also mean- I will give. Either way for me doesn't matter. For you it would be a problem. What you don't seem to understand is this-- Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. John 14:13

4. In 1 John 5:11-14, we know based on precedent of asking the Father in the name of Jesus (John 15:16, John 16:23, 1 John 3:22) that when John wrote "if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us" that the primary antecedent in the 1 John 5:11-14 passage is the Father. John taught to ask the Father.

Oh please the context speaks for itself there. Cut me a break. lol

5. In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, we have already established precedent from several verses that Jesus was never prayed to in the Bible, nor were any explicit instructions given to pray to him, nor any clear examples of him being prayed to, so the Lord being referenced in this passage is the Father. They implored the Father as Lord because we know from Acts 3:19,20 that there is a Lord who sends Jesus Christ.

Again- CONTEXT!

So there is still nothing clear about praying to Jesus in any of those verses. A simple "pray to Jesus" verse would probably settle this. I find it interesting that is missing from the Bible. Any thoughts on why?

My thoughts on it are simple. You don't want there to be. I was in your shoes once. It's a cognitive dissonance. It's awful. My honest advice is to pray about it and pray hard. It's not going to be fun- denying Him is a big deal. HINT- Look up how many times the scriptures say "call on his name" How do we do that if we can't pray to Him?
I guess I shouldn't have compared you to a Jw- you are more like Christadelphians (same tired arguments on prayer tho)So you deny that Jesus had a pre-existence before He came to earth... NO WONDER! Jesus said he came down from heaven. Why would you deny that the Word who became flesh is none other than JESUS. Pray RM.

 

[Runningman]

We are still waiting for your definition of prayer and praying.

You can attack the idea of praying to Jesus all you want.

Meanwhile, I will continue to talk to the Father when that seems appropriate and talk to Jesus when that seems appropriate.

Your arguments are unconvincing, for you quibble over semantics and quarrel over precise word usage, while never defining your own terms.

There is nothing in the Bible that authorizes us to sing songs about Jesus, but we do it.

Rather than drawing out principles from general spiritual realities, you demand certain words to be attached to certain actions. Like a Pharisee, you must have specific instructions to do something, otherwise you will not do it.

In King James English, to pray meant to beseech, as in “I pray thee, let me go!”

So yes, any time a person spoke to Jesus, asking questions or begging for help, they were praying.

Would you consider following the explicit instructions to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9 drawing out principles of general spiritual realities and behaving like a Pharisee? I call it just being a Christian. When you discover such an instruction or convincing argument that displaces the teachings of Christ, please share.