The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[PS95]

Would you consider following the explicit instructions to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9 drawing out principles of general spiritual realities and behaving like a Pharisee? I call it just being a Christian. When you discover such an instruction or convincing argument that displaces the teachings of Christ, please share.

There is nothing wrong with praying to our Father- I do all the time! But that doesn't mean that the other scripture you have been shown is moot or there to be twisted. Instead of over analyzing everything- just believe- be even as a child and trust what is written- all of it. It will all be ok.

 

[Debp]

It's funny...when I was a new Christian especially, I would pray to the Father. After that the Holy Spirit became very real to me. Now in my later years, I find myself praying to the dear Lord, Jesus in my prayers.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Would you consider following the explicit instructions to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9 drawing out principles of general spiritual realities and behaving like a Pharisee? I call it just being a Christian. When you discover such an instruction or convincing argument that displaces the teachings of Christ, please share.

Yeshua prayed to the Father of course, Why would He pray to Himself? would he have taught them to pray to Him? remember after his ascension ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH was given to HIM, He is One with GOD, He is GOD, we can certainly pray to Both.

 

[LoveYeshua]

The vowels aren't missing. You're talking about the niqqud - the diacritical marks added to the Hebrew language by the Masoretes roughly 2,000 years after the Old Testament was originally written. They aren't original to the text, so nothing is missing.

The Masoretes added the niqqud to remove ambiguity from the text... specifically, to eliminate Christian readings of the text. You shouldn't trust those guys.

Fairly confident that it isn't. I don't know the correct pronunciation, but I know a little Hebrew grammar. The Y is a prefix onto H1961 or H1933 (same root, meaning exist), so it probably says ye- rather than yah.

The letter H says Hay by default and can also say Ay. You can make it say Hoe or Hee but it doesn't become -aH or -oH.

Other than that... H and W can be vowels or consonants, and each has 2 sounds as a consonant, so there are a lot of potential variants.

Thank you for your comments. I agree that the Masoretes did not remove vowels from the text. The original Hebrew Scriptures were written with consonants, and the vowel points (niqqud) were added many centuries later to preserve the traditional reading of Hebrew.

When I said the vowels were "missing," I simply meant that the original writing of God's name, יהוה (YHWH), does not preserve its original pronunciation. Because the Jews stopped pronouncing the divine name long before the Masoretes, its exact pronunciation was already lost by that time. The vowel points placed on YHWH were generally intended to remind readers to say "Adonai" (or sometimes "Elohim"), not necessarily to preserve the original pronunciation of the divine name itself.

As for "Yahweh," I agree that we cannot prove it with absolute certainty. However, it is the pronunciation favored by most Hebrew scholars because it fits the available linguistic and historical evidence, including ancient transcriptions and Hebrew names that preserve parts of the divine name. "Jehovah," on the other hand, is generally understood to be a later form that resulted from combining the consonants YHWH with the vowel points used for "Adonai."

So my point remains the same: we know the divine name was written as YHWH with certainty, but its exact ancient pronunciation cannot be known with complete confidence today. Whether it was pronounced very close to "Yahweh" or somewhat differently, I believe we will one day hear it spoken exactly as God intended.

 

[Lambano]

Meanwhile, I will continue to talk to the Father when that seems appropriate and talk to Jesus when that seems appropriate.

Jesus is probably listening in on your conversations with His Father anyway.

 

[Lambano]

It's a conference call with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

[Lambano]

Sometimes I ... just talk to Jesus. You can call it prayer or something else; it doesn't matter.

 

[Runningman]

There is nothing wrong with praying to our Father- I do all the time! But that doesn't mean that the other scripture you have been shown is moot or there to be twisted. Instead of over analyzing everything- just believe- be even as a child and trust what is written- all of it. It will all be ok.

We agree that there is nothing wrong with praying to the Father. I would say that support for praying to the Father only is pretty strong. Aside from the direct instruction to do so, when Jesus prayed he also only ever prayed to the Father. After that, throughout the rest of the New Testament, the apostles stated to imitate Jesus.

Peter said "follow in His steps." in 1 Peter 2:21.

Jesus said his actions are to be imitated "For I have given you an example, that you should do just as I have done for you." in John 13:13-15. "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love" in John 15:10.

Paul said imitate Christ in 1 Cor. 11:1. To have the mind of Jesus in Phil. 2:5.

John said to walk as Jesus walked in 1 John 2:6.

A pattern emerges in Scripture in which everyone is essentially saying "Do what Jesus did." and Jesus prayed only to the Father and explicitly taught his disciples to do the same. I understand your perspective and for the sake of discussion, let's assume that there were a few instances in which Jesus was addressed after his resurrection. We're still left with addressing the instruction Jesus left for his followers and the broadly-taught teachings to imitate Jesus, so from my perspective, the force of this means that what Jesus taught to do and the examples he provided carry the greater weight. So my question is, if you're saying do something different than what Jesus taught and did, then why should we do what you say, and when did the first instruction of "Pray to Jesus" appear in church history?

 

[Wrangler]

There is not a word for prayer there. I believe we cannot collapse all forms of communication down into prayer and disregard the nuances. Even if this was a prayer, it still isn't an instruction, i.e., "This is how you should pray..."

Exactly right! It’s not an instruction on how to pray. This fact won’t stop IDOLATORS, to wit.

It is instruction in the form of example.

No it wasn't an instruction, it was demonstration.

Well, if you accept word play, “demonstrations” of “prayer,” then many people throughout Scripture were “prayed” to:

• Eve to Adam
• Seth to Noah
• Sara to Abraham and Abraham to Sara.
• Abraham to Lot
• Moses to Pharoah
• Stepfather to Moses
• Abigal to David
• Bethsheba to David
• Joseph of Arimethia to Pilate
• Jesus to the crowds (when asking, praying what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul)
• Jeremiah‘s mother to the high priest
• Jonah to the men on the boat

Doesn’t prove anything. Returning to the standard of the OP, there is no instruction in Scripture to pray to Jesus. It’s a simple fact. Perhaps with uncomfortable implications. Then again, we don’t walk with Christ for comfort.

 

[Lambano]

Exactly right! It’s not an instruction on how to pray. This fact won’t stop IDOLATORS, to wit.




Well, if you accept word play, “demonstrations” of “prayer,” then many people throughout Scripture were “prayed” to:

• Eve to Adam
• Seth to Noah
• Sara to Abraham and Abraham to Sara.
• Abraham to Lot
• Moses to Pharoah
• Stepfather to Moses
• Abigal to David
• Bethsheba to David
• Joseph of Arimethia to Pilate
• Jesus to the crowds (when asking, praying what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul)
• Jeremiah‘s mother to the high priest
• Jonah to the men on the boat

Doesn’t prove anything. Returning to the standard of the OP, there is no instruction in Scripture to pray to Jesus. It’s a simple fact. Perhaps with uncomfortable implications. Then again, we don’t walk with Christ for comfort.

That's just an artifact of King James English using the phrase "I pray thee" where modern English uses a simple "please".

 

[Lambano]

We agree that there is nothing wrong with praying to the Father.

But is it wrong to talk to Jesus (like Stephen did)?

 

[Lambano]

Sometimes I ... just talk to Jesus. You can call it prayer or something else; it doesn't matter.

@Runningman, do you ever ... just talk to Jesus?

(You don't have to call it "prayer".)

 

[marks]

The angel Gabriel spoke Greek to Mary?

How would you know?

Don't make up words and attribute them to me. That's lying.

 

[David in NJ]

Don't make up words and attribute them to me. That's lying.

In case you have forgotten your grade school English language/grammar, a '?' denotes a question being asked.

Understand?

 

[marks]

In case you have forgotten your grade school English language/grammar, a '?' denotes a question being asked.

Understand?

Listen to you!

Word games don't interest me. But then that's what you do.

 

[David in NJ]

Don't make up words and attribute them to me. That's lying.

your post #44 says: ''Iesous'

That Name is Jesus, from the Greek 'Iesous. Yeshua is what some men presume Jesus may have been called, but it's not Bible.

Who's lying marks?

 

[marks]

Well, if you accept word play, “demonstrations” of “prayer,” then many people throughout Scripture were “prayed” to:

I didn't know you pray to other people in the context of how we are speaking of prayer to God.

Word play, anyone?

 

[marks]

your post #44 says: ''Iesous'


Who's lying marks?

I quote Bible to you. Call it what you like.

 

[David in NJ]

I quote Bible to you. Call it what you like.

i LOVE when you quote Bible verses.........................like this passage!!!

See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God.

Let's sing to the LORD together.

 

[marks]

Only someone with a preconceived agenda would say that Stephen did not pray to Jesus there. Of course, he did.

There's the heart of the matter.

Notice that the ones who promote not praying to Jesus are the ones who don't believe Jesus' deity. There's the agenda.

Much love!