Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

[Davy]

Wow. This is twice in one day that you have understood the written Word of God. Shocking. Completely shocking.

The next thing you known, you will be understanding that there are two raptures. The man of sin will be revealed before the second rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.
But He is coming for His Church in an hour that you think not before the great tribulation. Learn this truth. The fig tree has two harvests.

A two rapture idea before Christ's 2nd coming is just another way to push the false Pre-trib Rapture LIE. Not surprising that its adherents are always looking for new ways to push that falseness in order to deceive the brethren.

6th Seal has 2 PARTS, and my QUESTION TO YOU was what does that "untimely figs" idea mean given in that first part of the 6th SEAL, but you gave NO ANSWER, so I must assume you don't have a clue. So how could one trust your interpretation of that 6th Seal?

 

[Davy]

Like @covenantee demonstrated, prince in 26b did have a capital in an English translation , so I don’t think your capital vs lower case argument is relevant to my point.

Well, yes it is relevant. And I even gave several other English Bible translations that followed the same suit the KJV translators did. So trying to claim the word for "prince" in the Hebrew means the same one throughout the whole Daniel 9:25-27 prophecy is ludicrous.

 

[claninja]

Well, yes it is relevant. And I even gave several other English Bible translations that followed the same suit the KJV translators did. So trying to claim the word for "prince" in the Hebrew means the same one throughout the whole Daniel 9:25-27 prophecy is ludicrous.

You seem to be conflating lexical definition with referential identity.

Definition:
The Hebrew word translated “prince” in both Daniel 9:25 and 9:26 is נָגִיד (nāḡîḏ). Are you arguing that nāḡîḏ does not mean “prince,” “leader,” or “ruler” in both verses?

Identity:
Or are you saying that you interpret the nāḡîḏ in verse 25 to be Jesus, but the nāḡîḏ in verse 26 to refer to someone else?

If it is the latter, then my question is this: Before appealing to historical identifications or theological conclusions, what internal grammatical or discourse evidence in Daniel 9:25–26 indicates that the nāḡîḏ in verse 26 is a different referent from the nāḡîḏ in verse 25?

For example:

• From the decree to rebuild the city until the anointed one, the king, there will be ten years. After the ten years, the anointed one will be killed. Then the people of the king who was to come will destroy the city.”
  

From this wording alone, what internal grammatical or discourse feature requires “the king who is coming” to be someone other than the previously introduced anointed king?

 

[claninja]

Purely from:
#1 - grammatical/contextual relevance
#2 - Gospel
#3 - Apostles
#4 - Genesis

I’m asking about #1

 

[Davy]

You seem to be conflating lexical definition with referential identity.

No, I'm simply using common sense in the Bible Scriptures instead of straining at it like a gnat.

The Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger had it on the nail, so here, why not argue with him a little while...

https://www.companionbiblecondensed.com/AP/ap91/index.html?page=2

 

[claninja]

No, I'm simply using common sense in the Bible Scriptures instead of straining at it like a gnat.

The Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger had it on the nail, so here, why not argue with him a little while...

https://www.companionbiblecondensed.com/AP/ap91/index.html?page=2

your inability to address the OP is noted.

 

[Davy]

your inability to address the OP is noted.

Your inapt use of men's doctrines instead of staying in the actual written Bible Scripture is noted.

 

[David in NJ]

I’m asking about #1

#1 is confirmed of and by itself 'grammatically' as two individual princes

a.) The Book of Daniel contains many princes
b.) MESSIAH the Prince is singled out in ch9
c.) another prince is singled out in ch9 = "the people of the prince shall come who will destroy the city"

Grammatically, Daniel speaks of different princes.
Only one is MESSIAH the Prince

 

[claninja]

Your inapt use of men's doctrines instead of staying in the actual written Bible Scripture is noted.

Again, your inability to address the OP is noted. Thank you providing a man’s doctrine according bullinger, but that doesn’t address the OP.

I’m not talking about doctrine. I’m asking about grammatical and contextual rules, to which continue to not address.

 

[Davy]

Again, your inability to address the OP is noted. Thank you providing a man’s doctrine according bullinger, but that doesn’t address the OP.

I’m not talking about doctrine. I’m asking about grammatical and contextual rules, to which continue to not address.

Ignorance, I ain't got no time for dat!

Welcome BACK... to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[Davy]

#1 is confirmed of and by itself 'grammatically' as two individual princes

a.) The Book of Daniel contains many princes
b.) MESSIAH the Prince is singled out in ch9
c.) another prince is singled out in ch9 = "the people of the prince shall come who will destroy the city"

Grammatically, Daniel speaks of different princes.
Only one is MESSIAH the Prince

They don't care to follow the actual written Scripture Truth, they instead are brainwashed by a doctrine from the followers of Ellen White.

 

[claninja]

#1 is confirmed of and by itself 'grammatically' as two individual princes

a.) The Book of Daniel contains many princes
b.) MESSIAH the Prince is singled out in ch9
c.) another prince is singled out in ch9 = "the people of the prince shall come who will destroy the city"

Grammatically, Daniel speaks of different princes.
Only one is MESSIAH the Prince

You’re assuming the very point in dispute. Of course Daniel contains multiple princes (e.g., Michael, the prince of Persia, the prince of Greece, etc.). The question isn’t whether Daniel has multiple princes in general. The question is whether the nāḡîḏ of Daniel 9:26 is grammatically required to be different from the nāḡîḏ of Daniel 9:25.

Simply pointing out that Daniel mentions more than one prince elsewhere doesn’t establish that Daniel 9 introduces a second and different nāḡîḏ. What grammatical feature WITHIN Daniel 9:25–26 requires a change in referent?

For example:

• From the decree to rebuild the city until the anointed one, the king, there will be ten years. After the ten years, the anointed one will be killed. Then the people of the king who was to come will destroy the city.”

From this wording alone, what internal grammatical or discourse feature requires “the king who is coming” to be someone other than the previously introduced anointed king?

 

[claninja]

Ignorance, I ain't got no time for dat!

Welcome BACK... to my IGNORE LIST.

You don’t have anytime to address the OP. That is telling.

 

[David in NJ]

You’re assuming the very point in dispute. Of course Daniel contains multiple princes (e.g., Michael, the prince of Persia, the prince of Greece, etc.). The question isn’t whether Daniel has multiple princes in general. The question is whether the nāḡîḏ of Daniel 9:26 is grammatically required to be different from the nāḡîḏ of Daniel 9:25.

Simply pointing out that Daniel mentions more than one prince elsewhere doesn’t establish that Daniel 9 introduces a second and different nāḡîḏ. What grammatical feature WITHIN Daniel 9:25–26 requires a change in referent?

Ignoring the distinction of the many "princes" by grammatical identification leads you to believe a error.

• From the decree to rebuild the city until the anointed one, the king, there will be ten years. After the ten years, the anointed one will be killed. Then the people of the king who was to come will destroy the city.”

From this wording alone, what internal grammatical or discourse feature requires “the king who is coming” to be someone other than the previously introduced anointed king?

Grammatical ID of TWO princes

Prince #1 = MESSIAH the Prince will be CUT-OFF(violent death) = Prince #1 is now removed

Prince #2 = "the people of the prince who shall come will destroy the city"

Grammar Identifes TWO distinct "princes"

 

[The Light]

A two rapture idea before Christ's 2nd coming is just another way to push the false Pre-trib Rapture LIE. Not surprising that its adherents are always looking for new ways to push that falseness in order to deceive the brethren.

How is it that the Lord gives us specific instructions to WATCH and be READY because He is coming in an hour that we think not, and yet you cannot see. Why does the fig tree have two harvests and Jacob had two brides? Why are there days of Noah and days of Lot? Why do the feasts of God show a grain harvest and a fruit harvest? Why does the Lord Himself come in one coming and then He send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth in the coming at the 6th seal. Why is blindness removed from part of Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles come in, and we are told not to be ignorant of this mystery. Why were the fathers of Israel seen as the first fruits of the fig tree at her first time, but will not be the first fruits because they served Baalpeor? Why are there 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel after the Church is in heaven? What are you watching for Davy, the Antichrist? Not wise as He comes in an hour that we think not. Who are the foolish virgins Davy?

6th Seal has 2 PARTS, and my QUESTION TO YOU was what does that "untimely figs" idea mean given in that first part of the 6th SEAL, but you gave NO ANSWER, so I must assume you don't have a clue.

I don't see this question being asked to me. Maybe you thought you posted it and forgot to hit send.

Let's talk in specifics so I understand your question. Are you asking about the stars that fall from heaven?

So how could one trust your interpretation of that 6th Seal?

Let's deal with your specific question first. Once I know what you're fishing for, I will set the hook.

 

[David in NJ]

How is it that the Lord gives us specific instructions to WATCH and be READY because He is coming in an hour that we think not, and yet you cannot see. Why does the fig tree have two harvests and Jacob had two brides? Why are there days of Noah and days of Lot? Why do the feasts of God show a grain harvest and a fruit harvest? Why does the Lord Himself come in one coming and then He send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth in the coming at the 6th seal. Why is blindness removed from part of Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles come in, and we are told not to be ignorant of this mystery. Why were the fathers of Israel seen as the first fruits of the fig tree at her first time, but will not be the first fruits because they served Baalpeor? Why are there 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel after the Church is in heaven? What are you watching for Davy, the Antichrist? Not wise as He comes in an hour that we think not. Who are the foolish virgins Davy?

I don't see this question being asked to me. Maybe you thought you posted it and forgot to hit send.

Let's talk in specifics so I understand your question. Are you asking about the stars that fall from heaven?

Let's deal with your specific question first. Once I know what you're fishing for, I will set the hook.

There does not exist a single scripture where the angels are sent from Heaven apart from CHRIST's 2nd Coming

 

[The Light]

There does not exist a single scripture where the angels are sent from Heaven apart from CHRIST's 2nd Coming

And?

 

[Davy]

How is it that the Lord gives us specific instructions to WATCH and be READY because He is coming in an hour that we think not, and yet you cannot see.

Answering your questions are easy. But what about what I asked regarding the stars cast down like "untimely figs" mentioned on the 6th Seal?

If you had actually paid attention... to what Jesus said about watching those Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse, then you'd have understood also gave a warning of those who don't watch won't know in what hour the thief comes. Per Rev.16:15 Jesus said He comes "as a thief". So this ultimately means His servants are to supposed to be able to recognize the day and hour of His future coming, not the date, but the day and hour per the Sign He gave for it. Do you know where He told you that Sign for that day and hour? It is written in His Word.

Thus context is everything, and only by staying... in the Bible Scripture as written, allowing God's Word to flow line upon line, will one discover the proper context.

Matt 24:42-47
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

That in red above is Jesus revealing that we are to recognize in what 'watch' the thief will come. Not only that, but we are to be found giving our household that "meat in due season" info too when He does come as a thief. Why don't preachers include this part that Jesus taught there too in their nobody knows the day tirade? It's because they don't have a clue how Jesus meant the above, and are blinded by their traditions.



To the Church of Sardis Jesus said:

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Why does the fig tree have two harvests and Jacob had two brides? Why are there days of Noah and days of Lot?

The fig tree has two harvests because the one in the spring is about the winter fig. What did Jesus say symbolic harvest time for His coming would be per His parable of a fig tree? Not spring. This is so... easy!

 

[Davy]

Let's talk in specifics so I understand your question. Are you asking about the stars that fall from heaven?

Let's deal with your specific question first. Once I know what you're fishing for, I will set the hook.

I don't recall who I asked about the "untimely figs" regarding the 6th Seal. And I think my question was specific enough. I think you're just stalling.

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV