Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[bdavidc]

Amen....clearly Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter went and preached the gospel and name of Christ to him. I hope Epi will reconsider this.

You are correct. Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter preached Christ to him. Acts 11:14 says plainly that Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Cornelius was devout, feared God, prayed, and gave alms, but he still needed to hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

@Episkopos’s answer does not address that passage. Instead, he introduces a system Scripture never teaches: one group of righteous unbelievers who inherit life in the next age, and another group who are saved now by reaching sinless perfection.

Scripture leaves no room for a saving life apart from Christ:

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:11–12).

The person who does not have the Son does not possess a lower form of life. John says plainly that he “hath not life.”

Nor does Scripture teach that only those who have attained sinless perfection are saved now. Paul was certainly saved, yet he said:

“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after” (Philippians 3:12).

John also wrote to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Believers are called to holiness, and genuine salvation produces obedience, but holiness is the fruit of salvation, not a higher form of salvation earned by becoming sinlessly perfect.

Jesus said that the believer possesses eternal life now:

“He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Notice that Jesus said “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life.” This is not merely a future inheritance for morally righteous unbelievers. It is the present possession of those who believe.

Calling these verses “surface statements” does not make them shallow. They are clear statements from God’s Word. A supposedly deeper interpretation that contradicts clear Scripture is not spiritual depth. It is false teaching.

Cornelius needed to be saved through hearing and believing the gospel of Christ. Eternal life is found only in the Son. Those who do not have the Son do not have life, regardless of how outwardly righteous they may appear.
Please don't fall for false teaching that twists the word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

You have again repeated your system without showing where Scripture actually teaches salvation for people who do not have the Son.

The meek shall inherit the earth. All of the proverb.etc etc... who shall ascend the mountain of the Lord??? To whom does the Lord look?

You have also shifted from explaining the text to claiming that I lack your spiritual experience. An alleged encounter with God does not establish doctrine. Every spiritual claim must be tested by the written Word.

I use the written word to explain the experiences of God who inspired it.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

That's why we have a bible and a humble standard of righteousness in humility and the fear of the Lord.

Your appeal to “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life” does not mean that the plain meaning of Scripture may be rejected in favor of private spiritual insight. In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is contrasting the old covenant ministry written on stone, which condemned sinners, with the life-giving ministry of the Spirit under the new covenant. He is not contrasting careful interpretation of Scripture with personal revelation.

Paul wrote the letters by inspiration of the Spirit. And I'm correcting you by the very same inspiration. It's not...the bible is you friend and God is your enemy...like so many think.

You asked for a verse showing that people are judged concerning belief. Jesus gave one directly:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

Jesus also said:

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

Second Thessalonians 2:12 says that people are condemned “who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” Therefore, Scripture plainly connects condemnation with unbelief and rejection of Christ’s truth.

Judgment according to works does not mean justification is earned by works. Works reveal the person’s true condition, but Scripture explicitly states the ground upon which the ungodly are justified:

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

You cannot overturn that statement by appealing to Proverbs. Proverbs teaches the character and fruit of righteousness. It does not teach that unbelievers inherit a lower form of eternal salvation apart from Christ.

Your handling of the Greek does not establish your position either. The preposition eis does not automatically mean that believing “into” Christ refers to entering a sinless higher walk. Its meaning is governed by the complete expression and context. John repeatedly describes believing in Christ as the means of receiving life:

“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name” (John 20:31).

Likewise, aphesis in Acts 10:43 does not mean Cornelius was merely elevated into a higher spiritual experience. Peter said:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

The same word is used when Jesus commanded that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” (Luke 24:47). Cornelius needed forgiveness and salvation through Christ, not promotion from a lower salvation into a higher one.

You also continue asserting that righteous unbelievers possess life apart from Christ, but John explicitly excludes that category:

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

It does not say that the person without the Son has a lower life, an earthly salvation, or a place among saved nations. It says he “hath not life.”

Calling your interpretation spiritual does not make it biblical. Calling those who disagree novices does not answer the passages. Your chart, your claimed encounter, and your assertions of hidden spiritual knowledge must all remain subject to Scripture.

I have addressed your claims from the text repeatedly. I will not continue an exchange in which clear passages are redefined and disagreement is dismissed as spiritual inferiority. The readers can compare both positions with Scripture.

You have not addressed any of the righteousness verses because you need to go away for a few years and seek the Lord....otherwise you will not learn anything of any depth.

 

[Episkopos]

People will use their bibles to contradict any call to work out one's own salvation with fear and trembling (which is in the bible). People prefer to claim a salvation based on assurances and smug self confidence. The bible translations of today reflect the modern watering down of the truth to something that middle-class people are not scandalized about. The revolutionary aspect of the gospel is dumbed down so as to make it seem benign....no drastic challenges....just beliefs and shallow acknowledgment.

The bible translations have been affected by the popular teachings of today that negate the truth at its proper depth. The word for remission or forgiveness of sins is the Greek aphesis...which means freedom. People don't experience freedom from sins anymore because the devil knows his business....shifting the meaning of words to conform to our human nature. The devil tried resisting the church from outside by bringing persecution. That only succeeded in spreading the gospel more and more. So he decided to try something more radical. He joined the church and subverted it from within.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are correct. Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter preached Christ to him. Acts 11:14 says plainly that Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Cornelius was devout, feared God, prayed, and gave alms, but he still needed to hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

@Episkopos’s answer does not address that passage. Instead, he introduces a system Scripture never teaches: one group of righteous unbelievers who inherit life in the next age, and another group who are saved now by reaching sinless perfection.

Scripture leaves no room for a saving life apart from Christ:

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:11–12).

The person who does not have the Son does not possess a lower form of life. John says plainly that he “hath not life.”

Nor does Scripture teach that only those who have attained sinless perfection are saved now. Paul was certainly saved, yet he said:

“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after” (Philippians 3:12).

John also wrote to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Believers are called to holiness, and genuine salvation produces obedience, but holiness is the fruit of salvation, not a higher form of salvation earned by becoming sinlessly perfect.

Jesus said that the believer possesses eternal life now:

“He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Notice that Jesus said “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life.” This is not merely a future inheritance for morally righteous unbelievers. It is the present possession of those who believe.

Calling these verses “surface statements” does not make them shallow. They are clear statements from God’s Word. A supposedly deeper interpretation that contradicts clear Scripture is not spiritual depth. It is false teaching.

Cornelius needed to be saved through hearing and believing the gospel of Christ. Eternal life is found only in the Son. Those who do not have the Son do not have life, regardless of how outwardly righteous they may appear.
Please don't fall for false teaching that twists the word of God.

Unfortunately it seems to me that Epi is complicating and confusing things that are quite simple. If God wants anyone to be saved, who He has foreknown, He will see to it that they hear or are shown the gospel, like He did with Cornelius, in some way or other, whether through a preacher or dream or vision. The bible says He used to not deal with sin for a long time, seeming to overlook it, "but now commands all men everywhere to repent" and receive His Son.

But I believe the holiness part of what he is saying in principle at least (don't know if any of it needs tweeking or not). The bible speaks of the highway of holiness where essentially no sin or evil dwells. If it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me....if that is the case, well, Christ is without sin. But I don't think it's about becoming sinless first in order to become holy, it is that being truly holy means one is not walking in their sin, but fully in the Spirit.......they are "spiritual" as those scriptures I posted earlier touch on, and no longer carnal. The old man is completely overcome and put under their feet, dead, inert......having been placed on the altar as a whole burnt offering where the fire of God consumes it (depicted in the OT). There is an early and latter rain. Two baptisms to undergo....Red Sea and Jordan River. There are so many scriptures that seem to be pointing to it. And there are respected Christian writers who have witnessed to it......Watchman Nee, Arthur Murray, Oswald Chambers are three that I have been particularly looking at in recent times.

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus spoke this to Nicodemus as God's people...not the world at large. Jesus didn't come to destroy all goodness and mercy in order to invent a religion based on partisan religious politics. God loves all forms of righteousness because He IS righteous. Not so the pretenders who claim justification based on their beliefs...while condemning the righteous who Jesus died for.

Jesus came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. The "righteous" have no need of a physician, they wrongly think they are saved through their own righteousness and don't know their true state. That is what keeps many "decent living" people from receiving Christ. It is what kept the righteous living, law-keeping Pharisees from receiving Him....they wrongly thought they didn't need Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think a lot of people need to start over from the beginning, having gone down the wrong track for so long, they have forgotten what holiness ...even a tiny sample of it....really is. Having begun in the Spirit but now trying to be made perfect progressively by the carnal mind.

lol to your wry humour. But unfortunately your carnal mind has separated progressive growth/sanctification from holiness. Growth is not just about character and righteous living, but is leading to holiness.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. The "righteous" have no need of a physician, they wrongly think they are saved through their own righteousness and don't know their true state. That is what keeps many "decent living" people from receiving Christ. It is what kept the righteous living, law-keeping Pharisees from receiving Him....they wrongly thought they didn't need Him.

You see my dear sister . Epi will not preach the dire need for to beleive on Christ .
He offers up no hope . It wont matter sister . If one fails to honor the Son then they do not Honor the Father .
It cannot be sought by the works of the law
but rather by FAITH . The jews were cast out of their own tree due to UNBELEIF
and had rather sought to attain righteousness apart F ROM faith .
As epi now teaches and offers up his own versions of life in this world and life in the next .
But unto all who failed to bleieve on JESUS their part will be in THE LAKE OF F IRE , not eternal life in the next age .
I know that which epi beleives . And it has literally destroyed many souls .
HE has either never knew or f orgotten , WHO DID the apostels preach
and HOW did they say was the ONLY way a man or a woman could be saved . That one way
IS THE WAY that epi will NOT point them too . THIS way , But sirs what must i do to be saved , BELIEVE
on JESUS THE CHRIST . Epi will NOT do this . HE will preach and has thus far continued
to resist any kind of reminder that we NEED to FIRST beleive ON JESUS . Sister
he has gra bbed ahold and b ought a lie . And marvel not if he can talk about holiness .
But how can a man be HOLY if he beleives NOT ON THE HOLY GOD AND HIS HOLY CHRIST .
Its not HOLY to call GOD a liar . GOD has chosen , AND WE MUST CONTINUE IN THE FAITH ,
how to save this world and it is by THE PREACHING of the Glorious gospel of JESUS to save those
who BELEIVE . not those who REJECT . NO man by THE SPIRIT would call JESUS
accursed . NOT BY THE SPIRIT , only by the flesh would one do so . And they who are of the flesh
shall of the flesh reap ONLY corruption . THERE simply IS no other name given under HEAVEN
whereby one may be saved . But epi WILL not preach that one message but rather rails on t hose who do .

 

[Episkopos]

Unfortunately it seems to me that Epi is complicating and confusing things that are quite simple. If God wants anyone to be saved, who He has foreknown, He will see to it that they hear or are shown the gospel, like He did with Cornelius, in some way or other, whether through a preacher or dream or vision. The bible says He used to not deal with sin for a long time, seeming to overlook it, "but now commands all men everywhere to repent" and receive His Son.

We need context here. God is allowing people to have access to His kingdom realm. All have access. But many are called and few chosen. One must bear the fruits of repentance from dead works. That's why the Jews lost their "exclusivity" as the people of God. They became proud and smug (just like believers today), so they lost their place. Hence the general need of repentance...toward all religious people, and all sinners. (the righteous are already repentant). We are all being called into AT LEAST righteousness.

This call to a general repentance has nothing to do with God's mercy towards the meek, the poor, the fatherless, the widow...etc.

We all have access to the coming glory....that is the race of faith...and with it comes salvation from sin. But I think people confuse salvation with acceptance with God. God has ALWAYS accepted the righteous...as Peter and others attest.

Jesus' ministry was to call sinners to repentance INTO righteousness and obedience, just like the ones who already were guiltless. Remember that Jesus leaves behind the 99 sheep who are well in order to seek out the one that strayed. So He came to call SINNERS to repentance.

There are many other such nuances that a surface reading can't pick up on. One example is that Love covers a multitude of sins. What KIND of sins??? The bible says (Peshaim) carnal sins...like those committed by harlots and publicans. How can God be so merciful? Well, to confound the religious self-righteous ones who look down on the love among sinners. ...who look down on the meek as having no value.

But God sees value where religious pretenders do not. Why throw away your own salvation for the "privilige" of looking down on others??

But I believe the holiness part of what he is saying in principle at least (don't know if any of it needs tweeking or not)

Tweaking??? You mean compromise? Holiness has no compromise in it. Mercy on the other hand overlooks many kinds of sins....but not iniquity which the religious ones perpetuate by their naming and claiming. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord against hypocrisy, I warn people.

. The bible speaks of the highway of holiness where essentially no sin or evil dwells. If it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me....if that is the case, well, Christ is without sin. But I don't think it's about becoming sinless first in order to become holy, it is that being truly holy means one is not walking in their sin, but fully in the Spirit.......they are "spiritual" as those scriptures I posted earlier touch on, and no longer carnal. The old man is completely overcome and put under their feet, dead, inert......having been placed on the altar as a whole burnt offering where the fire of God consumes it (depicted in the OT). There is an early and latter rain. Two baptisms to undergo....Red Sea and Jordan River. There are so many scriptures that seem to be pointing to it. And there are respected Christian writers who have witnessed to it......Watchman Nee, Arthur Murray, Oswald Chambers are three that I have been particularly looking at in recent times.

That's right. All the verses that people use to negate righteousness among non-believers actually point to a miraculous heavenly walk...which the condemners of the righteous are NOT walking in. So these are condemned as being neither holy nor righteous. I warn people and get hated for it...but I'm trying to save their souls. Like a fish caught on dry land trying to avoid every helping hand as Sting puts it. So people don't know what's good for them.

A brother asked me yesterday what I thought of Watchman Nee. I said he was a great brother but he compromises with positional theology in order to be accepted by more people...because people want to FEEL special before God...even if ultimately that is the WORST thing they can do as it negates the fear and trembling required to actually enter the kingdom of God. And he agreed with me.

 

[amigo de christo]

lol to your wry humour. But unfortunately your carnal mind has separated progressive growth/sanctification from holiness. Growth is not just about character and righteous living, but is leading to holiness.

Holiness would not omit the DIRE NEED for to repent and BELEIVE on JESUS the CHRIST .
And there is no growth of GOD that will be given unto those who preach any other gospel . THEY only walk in darkness sister .
CHRIST is the LIGHT and any who is born again would have BELIEVED and would have Taught others TO BELIEVE on HIM
and to observe ALL things HE did teach . This epi does not do .
We simply cannot be the enemy of THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST .
And that gospel darn sure says That if one Shall BELIEVE from the heart that GOD rose HIM from the dead
and shall CONFESS him by mouth they shall be saved .
And we already both know if any lips his name and yet embraces sins , and oh yeah another gospel ,
THEY do not know HIM .
THis people honors me with their lips but THEIR HEART is far from ME .

 

[amigo de christo]

lol to your wry humour. But unfortunately your carnal mind has separated progressive growth/sanctification from holiness. Growth is not just about character and righteous living, but is leading to holiness.

every time epi talks about context , NEVER forget , HE speaks from a mind that BELEIVES inclusivism
and thus that is all his context is gonna fit .
HE is no different than many others who always say YOU gotta take it in context
and yet their context will actually FIT their own learned doctrine of men .

 

[amigo de christo]

lol to your wry humour. But unfortunately your carnal mind has separated progressive growth/sanctification from holiness. Growth is not just about character and righteous living, but is leading to holiness.

Sister look at what he says and often accuses one of doing .
THEN notice ITS HIM DOING exactly what he is accusing US of doing .
IT IS HE who is led by the carnal mind and progressing ONLY BY that carnal mind .
He does this often .

 

[Lizbeth]

We need context here. God is allowing people to have access to His kingdom realm. All have access. But many are called and few chosen. One must bear the fruits of repentance from dead works. That's why the Jews lost their "exclusivity" as the people of God. They became proud and smug (just like believers today), so they lost their place. Hence the general need of repentance...toward all religious people, and all sinners. (the righteous are already repentant). We are all being called into AT LEAST righteousness.

This call to a general repentance has nothing to do with God's mercy towards the meek, the poor, the fatherless, the widow...etc.

We all have access to the coming glory....that is the race of faith...and with it comes salvation from sin. But I think people confuse salvation with acceptance with God. God has ALWAYS accepted the righteous...as Peter and others attest.

Jesus' ministry was to call sinners to repentance INTO righteousness and obedience, just like the ones who already were guiltless. Remember that Jesus leaves behind the 99 sheep who are well in order to seek out the one that strayed. So He came to call SINNERS to repentance.

There are many other such nuances that a surface reading can't pick up on. One example is that Love covers a multitude of sins. What KIND of sins??? The bible says (Peshaim) carnal sins...like those committed by harlots and publicans. How can God be so merciful? Well, to confound the religious self-righteous ones who look down on the love among sinners. ...who look down on the meek as having no value.

But God sees value where religious pretenders do not. Why throw away your own salvation for the "privilige" of looking down on others??


Tweaking??? You mean compromise? Holiness has no compromise in it. Mercy on the other hand overlooks many kinds of sins....but not iniquity which the religious ones perpetuate by their naming and claiming. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord against hypocrisy, I warn people.

That's right. All the verses that people use to negate righteousness among non-believers actually point to a miraculous heavenly walk...which the condemners of the righteous are NOT walking in. So these are condemned as being neither holy nor righteous. I warn people and get hated for it...but I'm trying to save their souls. Like a fish caught on dry land trying to avoid every helping hand as Sting puts it. So people don't know what's good for them.

Who are the meek in God's eyes Epi? The meek in God's eyes are those who receive the engrafted word and that is WHY they will inherit the earth, not based on their own merits.

Jas 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOULS.

Why do you assume that everyone who knows they are not saved by their own righteousness but by Christ alone are looking down on others? Yes there are sadly plenty of Pharisees in the church with that attitude, but not everyone is like that. Some actually have a heart and love for lost souls.

And you need to stop equating simple disagreement and debate with hatred of you.

 

[Episkopos]

lol to your wry humour. But unfortunately your carnal mind has separated progressive growth/sanctification from holiness. Growth is not just about character and righteous living, but is leading to holiness.

You are looking in a mirror if you are seeing a carnal mind. The only thing that is progressive is maturity in righteousness. Holiness is purity from heaven. There is no process of a gift of God. Holiness is digital. Sanctification is digital. Righteousness is analog.

Any verse that is misunderstood or badly translated to insinuate a progressive holiness...is leading people astray. Actually TRYING to become more holy is against God's law. Strange fire is punishable with death. We can only support in righteousness what God gives us in holiness. We support shalem with tamim. We support an intimate connection to God with humility, and the fear of the Lord. Otherwise we will lose that connection when tested.

Dig roots downward and bear fruit upward.

 

[Lizbeth]

every time epi talks about context , NEVER forget , HE speaks from a mind that BELEIVES inclusivism
and thus that is all his context is gonna fit .
HE is no different than many others who always say YOU gotta take it in context
and yet their context will actually FIT their own learned doctrine of men .

Yes, there are scriptures that are being seen in a certain light so as to make it fit the doctrine, rather than letting the scrips form the doctrine. A very common thing that people do.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. The "righteous" have no need of a physician, they wrongly think they are saved through their own righteousness and don't know their true state. That is what keeps many "decent living" people from receiving Christ. It is what kept the righteous living, law-keeping Pharisees from receiving Him....they wrongly thought they didn't need Him.

More irony. The righteous have no need of a physician because they are healthy in God's eyes. It is ONLY the Pharisees that condemn the righteous. That's why you can't see your own condemnation. Jesus says...HAVE MERCY...and stop condemning the guiltless (tamim)

By condemning the righteous you are cutting off your own supply of mercy from God. You are saying you don't want God's mercy. So He will withdraw it from you until you receive a righteous man in the name of a righteous man.

As for receiving a prophet....you are light years away from that...and that has to do with glory...not mercy.

PS. Jesus did not see the Pharisees as righteous but as hypocrites...telling us not to DO (righteous is as righteous does) as they do. But you are not paying attention to Jesus' words...but twisting them to justify yourself, as any smug Pharisee would do.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, there are scriptures that are being seen in a certain light so as to make it fit the doctrine, rather than letting the scrips form the doctrine. A very common thing that people do.

yes indeed dear sister . Many do just that . They learn and teach the scrips according
to a certain mindset and beleif and then will use scrips to justify such a thing .
And yet one can clearly see that it will contradict many other places in said scripture .
A huge example of this
They see God through a love of this world type mindset . And thus they will teach HIS love
according to what man sees as love and as lov ing .
So when they read any kind of dire warning about NOT beleiving ON JESUS
the warning gets turned into something else that will fit INCLUSIVE MINDSET .
Suddenly it means something else . Because if it actaully MEANS what it says , WELL it had proved THEM wrong
and their doctrine wrong .
SO they have to invent . Oh this happens all the time . A man who loveth money
WILL sit under prosperity preachers WHO ALSO do this
Or if a man be a homosexual , all of a sudden its the same thing
HE sits under men like mathew vines as they twist things to make it SEEM like GOD is not against the act
but rather not do pratice it in the temple .
THEY DO a lot of things sister . ITs known as What peter once wrote
THEY twist them unto their own destruction . WHATEVER lustful desire they desired
IS HOW they will view the scrips , what little they do read . That is what they do sister .
And no marvel that all who sat under any one of them and desired to hear them
NOW thinks ITS IMPOSSIBLE to learn the bible for ourself . CAUSE Look at how badly they twisted it .
Made it say things it never meant . But you are correct sister .
WHEN you said LET US get back into the bible and wave out all this rift raft of men , and begin afresh for ourselves .
YES indeed sister , the TIME FOR THEM TO COME YE OUT and begin afresh in the scriptures , IS NOW .
Things would have cleared up in time .

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, there are scriptures that are being seen in a certain light so as to make it fit the doctrine, rather than letting the scrips form the doctrine. A very common thing that people do.

Exactly. You add in words and take away words as you need to in order to satisfy a pet doctrine you have in preference. But you are missing God entirely from your scheme.

 

[David Lamb]

Sure

The only thing God can impute to us is what we are producing ourselves. There is no vicarious imputation since God doesn't respect persons. We have to prove ourselves worthy of the calling which we received. Many are called few are chosen. That is a meritocracy arrangement for the kingdom that you don't seem to grasp.

Many run in a race but one wins the prize. We reap as WE sow....not we reap as Jesus sowed. We will each be judged for what WE have done...not what Jesus did.

The apostle Paul said that he didn't rely on his own righteousness:

(Php 3:7-9 NKJV) But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

So Paul believed he had a righteousness which came from God.

Salvation is not a meritocracy arrangement, but quite the opposite. We are saved by God's grace, His underserved favour, not because we deserve salvation:

(Eph 2:1-10 NKJV) And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Nothing there about the Ephesian Christians meriting salvation.

If salvation is not because of what Jesus did, why did He do it? Why leave the glories of heaven, and come to earth to live among sinful men and women, be mocked, and eventually crucified?

 

[Lizbeth]

The righteous have no need of a physician because they are healthy in God's eyes.

You are missing the spiritual irony in what Jesus was saying. The natural man with his carnal mind can't perceive it.....it must be spiritually discerned.

Even the righteous and faithful old testament saints were not saved apart from the gospel (new covenant):

Heb 11:39-40
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

I and others here are not condemning anybody..........Jesus' own words do that.

The only righteous man or prophet I "receive" is Jesus Christ. That needs to be spiritually discerned too, and all thanks be to God for it.

 

[Episkopos]

Who are the meek in God's eyes Epi? The meek in God's eyes are those who receive the engrafted word and that is WHY they will inherit the earth, not based on their own merits.

You twist the meaning of the word. We are to watch what the meek do and emulate them. We are to LEARN righteousness by watching what the righteous DO. Your cleverness is not of God. You are just flesh looking for justification.

Jas 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOULS.

The irony here is palpable. With meekness means humbly....which you are not doing. With meekness is not a category of people. It is an adjective. The "meek" on the other hand is a category...like "the righteous" or the "hypocrites". If the bible said...receive the engrafted word "with hypocrisy" THEN you would have a point.

Why do you assume that everyone who knows they are not saved by their own righteousness but by Christ alone are looking down on others?

That's not the condemnation and you know it. I have only explained this to you from the bible a 100 times and you will not learn. I'm writing this to answer the foolish statements you make that snare the soul into a carnality that stops people from knowing the truth. That's why I respond to your bible twistings.

In order to follow the Babylonian religion you have to condemn the righteous...consigning them to hell if they don't accept Jesus as their personal saviour.

But when does God get a say on whom He accepts? The bible says He already accepts those who fear Him and do righteousness. And Babylonians HATE the words of the Lord...they only want mercy for themselves. These have no love for the lost except to see them as ministry fodder.

Yes there are sadly plenty of Pharisees in the church with that attitude, but not everyone is like that. Some actually have a heart and love for lost souls.

And you need to stop equating simple disagreement and debate with hatred of you.

What...you are not reading other posts? And you have a more passive aggressive approach...in your guile to like posts that attack me...and wipe your mouth and say you are above all that. I see your hypocrisy.