Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[bdavidc]

Amen....clearly Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter went and preached the gospel and name of Christ to him. I hope Epi will reconsider this.

You are correct. Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter preached Christ to him. Acts 11:14 says plainly that Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Cornelius was devout, feared God, prayed, and gave alms, but he still needed to hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

@Episkopos’s answer does not address that passage. Instead, he introduces a system Scripture never teaches: one group of righteous unbelievers who inherit life in the next age, and another group who are saved now by reaching sinless perfection.

Scripture leaves no room for a saving life apart from Christ:

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:11–12).

The person who does not have the Son does not possess a lower form of life. John says plainly that he “hath not life.”

Nor does Scripture teach that only those who have attained sinless perfection are saved now. Paul was certainly saved, yet he said:

“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after” (Philippians 3:12).

John also wrote to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Believers are called to holiness, and genuine salvation produces obedience, but holiness is the fruit of salvation, not a higher form of salvation earned by becoming sinlessly perfect.

Jesus said that the believer possesses eternal life now:

“He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Notice that Jesus said “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life.” This is not merely a future inheritance for morally righteous unbelievers. It is the present possession of those who believe.

Calling these verses “surface statements” does not make them shallow. They are clear statements from God’s Word. A supposedly deeper interpretation that contradicts clear Scripture is not spiritual depth. It is false teaching.

Cornelius needed to be saved through hearing and believing the gospel of Christ. Eternal life is found only in the Son. Those who do not have the Son do not have life, regardless of how outwardly righteous they may appear.
Please don't fall for false teaching that twists the word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

You have again repeated your system without showing where Scripture actually teaches salvation for people who do not have the Son.

The meek shall inherit the earth. All of the proverb.etc etc... who shall ascend the mountain of the Lord??? To whom does the Lord look?

You have also shifted from explaining the text to claiming that I lack your spiritual experience. An alleged encounter with God does not establish doctrine. Every spiritual claim must be tested by the written Word.

I use the written word to explain the experiences of God who inspired it.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

That's why we have a bible and a humble standard of righteousness in humility and the fear of the Lord.

Your appeal to “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life” does not mean that the plain meaning of Scripture may be rejected in favor of private spiritual insight. In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is contrasting the old covenant ministry written on stone, which condemned sinners, with the life-giving ministry of the Spirit under the new covenant. He is not contrasting careful interpretation of Scripture with personal revelation.

Paul wrote the letters by inspiration of the Spirit. And I'm correcting you by the very same inspiration. It's not...the bible is you friend and God is your enemy...like so many think.

You asked for a verse showing that people are judged concerning belief. Jesus gave one directly:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

Jesus also said:

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

Second Thessalonians 2:12 says that people are condemned “who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” Therefore, Scripture plainly connects condemnation with unbelief and rejection of Christ’s truth.

Judgment according to works does not mean justification is earned by works. Works reveal the person’s true condition, but Scripture explicitly states the ground upon which the ungodly are justified:

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

You cannot overturn that statement by appealing to Proverbs. Proverbs teaches the character and fruit of righteousness. It does not teach that unbelievers inherit a lower form of eternal salvation apart from Christ.

Your handling of the Greek does not establish your position either. The preposition eis does not automatically mean that believing “into” Christ refers to entering a sinless higher walk. Its meaning is governed by the complete expression and context. John repeatedly describes believing in Christ as the means of receiving life:

“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name” (John 20:31).

Likewise, aphesis in Acts 10:43 does not mean Cornelius was merely elevated into a higher spiritual experience. Peter said:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

The same word is used when Jesus commanded that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” (Luke 24:47). Cornelius needed forgiveness and salvation through Christ, not promotion from a lower salvation into a higher one.

You also continue asserting that righteous unbelievers possess life apart from Christ, but John explicitly excludes that category:

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

It does not say that the person without the Son has a lower life, an earthly salvation, or a place among saved nations. It says he “hath not life.”

Calling your interpretation spiritual does not make it biblical. Calling those who disagree novices does not answer the passages. Your chart, your claimed encounter, and your assertions of hidden spiritual knowledge must all remain subject to Scripture.

I have addressed your claims from the text repeatedly. I will not continue an exchange in which clear passages are redefined and disagreement is dismissed as spiritual inferiority. The readers can compare both positions with Scripture.

You have not addressed any of the righteousness verses because you need to go away for a few years and seek the Lord....otherwise you will not learn anything of any depth.