Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

Go and learn this
James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

The phrase "mercy trumps judgment" reflects the famous Bible verse James 2:13, which states that "mercy triumphs over judgment". In Christian teaching, it means God’s grace and forgiveness are greater than strict condemnation, and people who have received mercy should show compassion to others instead of being harsh.

Amen. There is no mercy in a meritocracy. Meritocracy is the law of the jungle....it is old covenant, which was a burden no one could bear.

 

[bdavidc]

I think a lot of people need to start over from the beginning, having gone down the wrong track for so long, they have forgotten what holiness ...even a tiny sample of it....really is. Having begun in the Spirit but now trying to be made perfect progressively by the carnal mind.

You are creating a false choice between holiness by the Spirit and progressive growth in holiness. Scripture teaches both.

Galatians 3:3 says, “Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” In context, Paul was rebuking the Galatians for turning to the works of the law after receiving the Spirit by faith. He was not teaching that continued growth in holiness is carnal.

Scripture plainly describes an ongoing work of sanctification in believers:

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” (2 Corinthians 3:18).

“But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18).

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Believers do not perfect themselves through the carnal mind. God works in them by His Spirit, through His Word, producing obedience and spiritual growth. That growth is not instantaneous sinless perfection, nor is holiness reserved for a spiritually elite class. Every believer is called to holiness:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

Holiness is not a mysterious experience that only a few people have tasted. It is the work of God in all who belong to Christ. Your repeated attempt to divide believers into ordinary Christians and a higher class who have entered sinless holiness is not taught in Scripture.

 

[bdavidc]

People will use their bibles to contradict any call to work out one's own salvation with fear and trembling (which is in the bible). People prefer to claim a salvation based on assurances and smug self confidence. The bible translations of today reflect the modern watering down of the truth to something that middle-class people are not scandalized about. The revolutionary aspect of the gospel is dumbed down so as to make it seem benign....no drastic challenges....just beliefs and shallow acknowledgment.

The bible translations have been affected by the popular teachings of today that negate the truth at its proper depth. The word for remission or forgiveness of sins is the Greek aphesis...which means freedom. People don't experience freedom from sins anymore because the devil knows his business....shifting the meaning of words to conform to our human nature. The devil tried resisting the church from outside by bringing persecution. That only succeeded in spreading the gospel more and more. So he decided to try something more radical. He joined the church and subverted it from within.

For the sake of those agreeing with this, Philippians 2:12 does not teach that sinners earn salvation through fear, effort, or religious works. Paul was writing to people who were already “saints in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 1:1). He told saved people to work out what God was already working within them:

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Working out salvation is not the same as working for salvation. Scripture plainly says:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Biblical assurance is not smug self-confidence. It is confidence in Christ and His promise:

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” (1 John 5:13).

Nor does the Greek word aphesis prove that forgiveness means achieving sinless perfection. In Acts 10:43 Peter said that “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Cornelius received forgiveness through faith in Christ. The passage does not say he entered a superior class of Christians who no longer sin.

Holiness matters. Believers are commanded to obey, grow, and pursue holiness. But holiness is the fruit of salvation, not the price paid to obtain it. Anyone teaching that confidence in Christ’s finished work is shallow or carnal is contradicting the very promises God gave believers.

 

[bdavidc]

We need context here. God is allowing people to have access to His kingdom realm. All have access. But many are called and few chosen. One must bear the fruits of repentance from dead works. That's why the Jews lost their "exclusivity" as the people of God. They became proud and smug (just like believers today), so they lost their place. Hence the general need of repentance...toward all religious people, and all sinners. (the righteous are already repentant). We are all being called into AT LEAST righteousness.

This call to a general repentance has nothing to do with God's mercy towards the meek, the poor, the fatherless, the widow...etc.

We all have access to the coming glory....that is the race of faith...and with it comes salvation from sin. But I think people confuse salvation with acceptance with God. God has ALWAYS accepted the righteous...as Peter and others attest.

Jesus' ministry was to call sinners to repentance INTO righteousness and obedience, just like the ones who already were guiltless. Remember that Jesus leaves behind the 99 sheep who are well in order to seek out the one that strayed. So He came to call SINNERS to repentance.

There are many other such nuances that a surface reading can't pick up on. One example is that Love covers a multitude of sins. What KIND of sins??? The bible says (Peshaim) carnal sins...like those committed by harlots and publicans. How can God be so merciful? Well, to confound the religious self-righteous ones who look down on the love among sinners. ...who look down on the meek as having no value.

But God sees value where religious pretenders do not. Why throw away your own salvation for the "privilige" of looking down on others??


Tweaking??? You mean compromise? Holiness has no compromise in it. Mercy on the other hand overlooks many kinds of sins....but not iniquity which the religious ones perpetuate by their naming and claiming. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord against hypocrisy, I warn people.

That's right. All the verses that people use to negate righteousness among non-believers actually point to a miraculous heavenly walk...which the condemners of the righteous are NOT walking in. So these are condemned as being neither holy nor righteous. I warn people and get hated for it...but I'm trying to save their souls. Like a fish caught on dry land trying to avoid every helping hand as Sting puts it. So people don't know what's good for them.

A brother asked me yesterday what I thought of Watchman Nee. I said he was a great brother but he compromises with positional theology in order to be accepted by more people...because people want to FEEL special before God...even if ultimately that is the WORST thing they can do as it negates the fear and trembling required to actually enter the kingdom of God. And he agreed with me.

The question is not whether holiness, obedience, repentance, mercy, and the fear of God matter. Scripture plainly teaches that they do. The question is whether people who do not have the Son are already righteous and accepted by God apart from salvation through Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not teach that.

Cornelius is actually a direct refutation of that idea. Cornelius feared God, prayed, gave alms, and had a good reputation. Yet the angel told him to send for Peter, who “shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14).

Cornelius was religious, sincere, charitable, and responsive to the light God had given him, but he still needed to hear and believe the gospel to be saved. That is why Peter preached Christ to him:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Acts 10:35 says that in every nation the person who fears God and works righteousness “is accepted with him.” It does not mean that such a person is already justified, possesses eternal life, or has salvation without Christ. The context proves otherwise. God was showing Peter that He does not reject Gentiles because they are Gentiles. He receives people from every nation, but they must still hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is no biblical category of righteous unbelievers who are accepted by God while lacking the Son. Scripture says:

“There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10).

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

“No man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).

“To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

Jesus did not come merely to move sinners into the same natural righteousness supposedly already possessed by certain unbelievers. He came to save the lost, forgive sins, reconcile sinners to God, and give eternal life to those who believe in Him.

The ninety-nine sheep in Luke 15 do not establish ninety-nine guiltless people who have no need of Christ. The context begins with the Pharisees and scribes complaining that Jesus received sinners. Jesus answered their self-righteous attitude by speaking of “ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance” (Luke 15:7). Scripture has already established that no one is naturally righteous. Jesus was exposing people who considered themselves righteous and saw no need to repent.

Nor does Galatians 2:20 teach that a Christian becomes incapable of sin because Christ lives in him. Christ living in the believer produces holiness and obedience, but John still wrote to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

There is also no passage teaching that the Red Sea is one Christian baptism and the Jordan River is a second baptism that elevates certain believers into sinless perfection. That is an imposed spiritual system, not an interpretation given by Scripture. The same is true of using the early and latter rain, Old Testament sacrifices, or the highway of holiness to construct multiple levels of salvation.

Quoting respected Christian writers does not establish the doctrine either. Their writings must be tested by Scripture just as every other teaching must be tested.

The gospel is not shallow acknowledgment, smug self-confidence, or permission to live in sin. True faith produces obedience and holiness. But our acceptance with God is not based upon our attaining a superior spiritual condition. Believers are “accepted in the beloved” (Ephesians 1:6), meaning accepted through Jesus Christ.

This teaching does not merely add “nuance” to the gospel. It changes the gospel by giving righteousness, acceptance, and a form of life to people who do not have the Son, while turning salvation through Christ into access to a higher spiritual realm. Scripture says the opposite: “He that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

 

[IndianaRob]

For the sake of those agreeing with this, Philippians 2:12 does not teach that sinners earn salvation through fear, effort, or religious works. Paul was writing to people who were already “saints in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 1:1). He told saved people to work out what God was already working within them:

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Working out salvation is not the same as working for salvation. Scripture plainly says:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Biblical assurance is not smug self-confidence. It is confidence in Christ and His promise:

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” (1 John 5:13).

Nor does the Greek word aphesis prove that forgiveness means achieving sinless perfection. In Acts 10:43 Peter said that “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Cornelius received forgiveness through faith in Christ. The passage does not say he entered a superior class of Christians who no longer sin.

Holiness matters. Believers are commanded to obey, grow, and pursue holiness. But holiness is the fruit of salvation, not the price paid to obtain it. Anyone teaching that confidence in Christ’s finished work is shallow or carnal is contradicting the very promises God gave believers.

I would add that "working out your own salvation" is exactly what we're all doing on this forum. Everyone here has a different understanding of what salvation is. Epi believes salvation comes through works. Others believe it's a combination of faith and works. Others believe water baptism is essential. You get the idea.

So, "work out your own salvation" doesn't mean you must work to earn or keep your salvation. It means each person must carefully examine the Scriptures and come to their own understanding of what salvation is and what their experience of salvation will be.

 

[bdavidc]

You are looking in a mirror if you are seeing a carnal mind. The only thing that is progressive is maturity in righteousness. Holiness is purity from heaven. There is no process of a gift of God. Holiness is digital. Sanctification is digital. Righteousness is analog.

Any verse that is misunderstood or badly translated to insinuate a progressive holiness...is leading people astray. Actually TRYING to become more holy is against God's law. Strange fire is punishable with death. We can only support in righteousness what God gives us in holiness. We support shalem with tamim. We support an intimate connection to God with humility, and the fear of the Lord. Otherwise we will lose that connection when tested.

Dig roots downward and bear fruit upward.

Scripture does not teach that holiness and sanctification are “digital,” while righteousness is “analog.” Those categories are not found in the Bible. They are being imposed upon the text.

Scripture teaches that believers have been sanctified through Christ, and it also commands them to continue growing in holiness. Both truths are biblical.

Paul wrote to believers:

“But ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11).

Yet the same apostle also commanded believers:

“Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

The phrase “perfecting holiness” plainly describes an ongoing pursuit. Paul did not call that strange fire or a violation of God’s law. He commanded it.

He likewise told the Thessalonians:

“Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more” (1 Thessalonians 4:1).

Then he immediately said:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

Their sanctification included increasing obedience. They were already believers, yet they were commanded to “abound more and more.”

Hebrews says:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

The word “follow” describes pursuing something. Scripture therefore commands believers to pursue holiness. Claiming that “trying to become more holy is against God’s law” directly contradicts this command.

Believers are also described as being progressively transformed:

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” (2 Corinthians 3:18).

This transformation is not accomplished by the carnal mind. It is “by the Spirit of the Lord.” Progressive spiritual growth is not fleshly simply because it is progressive.

The appeal to strange fire is also misplaced. Nadab and Abihu offered unauthorized fire before the Lord in Leviticus 10. That passage does not teach that believers sin when they obey commands to cleanse themselves, pursue holiness, mortify sinful deeds, and grow in grace.

Nor may every verse that contradicts this teaching simply be dismissed as “misunderstood or badly translated.” That makes the system impossible to correct. When the text agrees with the system, it is accepted. When it contradicts the system, the translation is blamed. That is not allowing Scripture to judge doctrine. It is making the doctrine judge Scripture.

The Hebrew words shalem and tamim do not establish these invented categories either. Individual word meanings cannot be removed from their contexts and assembled into a doctrine Scripture never states.

God gives His Spirit, His grace, and His holiness. That does not eliminate the believer’s responsibility to obey:

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:12–13).

God works within the believer, and the believer responds in obedience. Scripture does not set those truths against each other.

Holiness is not earned by human effort, but neither is spiritual growth forbidden. The Spirit produces genuine growth in obedience, purity, and conformity to Christ. Any teaching that calls the biblical pursuit of holiness “against God’s law” has turned the Bible upside down. Stop twisting and adding to what the Bible actually says.

 

[bdavidc]

More irony. The righteous have no need of a physician because they are healthy in God's eyes. It is ONLY the Pharisees that condemn the righteous. That's why you can't see your own condemnation. Jesus says...HAVE MERCY...and stop condemning the guiltless (tamim)

By condemning the righteous you are cutting off your own supply of mercy from God. You are saying you don't want God's mercy. So He will withdraw it from you until you receive a righteous man in the name of a righteous man.

As for receiving a prophet....you are light years away from that...and that has to do with glory...not mercy.

PS. Jesus did not see the Pharisees as righteous but as hypocrites...telling us not to DO (righteous is as righteous does) as they do. But you are not paying attention to Jesus' words...but twisting them to justify yourself, as any smug Pharisee would do.

Jesus was not teaching that unbelievers are spiritually healthy and accepted by God. He was exposing those who thought they were righteous and had no need to repent. Scripture says, “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10), and “he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

Rejecting your interpretation is not rejecting a prophet or cutting oneself off from God’s mercy. You have no biblical authority to make that claim.

You need to repent before it is too late. Stop twisting Scripture, inventing righteous unbelievers, and accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being carnal or condemned. Your teaching must submit to God’s Word. God’s Word will not submit to your teaching.

 

[bdavidc]

Exactly. You add in words and take away words as you need to in order to satisfy a pet doctrine you have in preference. But you are missing God entirely from your scheme.

Episkopos, you are not fooling anyone. Lizbeth described exactly what you have been doing, and instead of answering her, you simply turned the accusation back on her.

You repeatedly force Scripture into your system, dismiss verses as mistranslated when they contradict you, and then accuse others of changing God’s Word. That is projection, not an argument.

“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye” (Matthew 7:5).

Stop hiding behind claims of spiritual depth. Repent of twisting Scripture and falsely condemning those who refuse to follow your private doctrine. God’s Word exposes your teaching, and your accusations will not conceal it.

 

[Episkopos]

Go and learn this
James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

The phrase "mercy trumps judgment" reflects the famous Bible verse James 2:13, which states that "mercy triumphs over judgment". In Christian teaching, it means God’s grace and forgiveness are greater than strict condemnation, and people who have received mercy should show compassion to others instead of being harsh.

You are not understanding what the principle is about. It is about having mercy as God does. And if Jesus was on the forum, He would be a LOT harsher than I am. Just remember how gentle He was with the Pharisees of His time.

Rather, we are to have mercy on the meek, the fatherless, the widow, the poor....etc

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus was not teaching that unbelievers are spiritually healthy and accepted by God.

This is not about being a believer or unbeliever but about what one does to others. We will not be judged by the accuracy of pour beliefs.

He was exposing those who thought they were righteous and had no need to repent. Scripture says, “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10), and “he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

Rejecting your interpretation is not rejecting a prophet or cutting oneself off from God’s mercy. You have no biblical authority to make that claim.

You need to repent before it is too late. Stop twisting Scripture, inventing righteous unbelievers, and accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being carnal or condemned. Your teaching must submit to God’s Word. God’s Word will not submit to your teaching.

You are twisting my words. My warnings are real and the ramifications are real.

 

[Episkopos]

The crows are out. But I am speaking the truth. Of course the adversary wants to tear down what brings light and truth.

One crow can be handled...even as they try to obfuscate the truth...but when crows gather it is death to any truth and decency. That's why a flock of crows is called a "murder" of crows, I suppose.

A group of three or more crows is traditionally considered a murder, while two crows are often joked about as an "attempted murder". Scientifically and officially, however, any gathering of these birds is just called a flock, as "murder" is an old folklore and literary term rather than a strict biological count

 

[IndianaRob]

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Paul is speaking about the antiChrist in us, the old man that is raised by us after we fall away from our first love of Christ, and put 'him' on the throne of our hearts meaning our own understanding of the things of God.

This is what the Holy Spirit must contend with when bringing a man back to repentance.

Man puts his interpretation above the true spiritual meaning of scriptures like these to his damnation.

My view was almost the same — I thought it referred to the day of salvation, but I think you may be right.

 

[Marvelloustime]

If you ever see a couple of tents in your back yard , dont just call the police
it might be me and a few others camping out .
Whatever the will of the LORD is , IS what the sheep shall do .
Now to the trenches sister . We are running out of time . Soon the powerful AI led digital system
WILL enforce the law of its inclusive god . And all of the merged , all within the ecumeincal
and inclusive camp will be co helpers to our persecution .
And there is nothing i could do and can do to stop this . THIS must simply be endured
by FAITH IN JESUS . And sister its gonna cost . for many even their own lives . perseuctions are GONNA pick up.

Yeah, a couple of tents with an orange & white dog being sneaked into brother’s tent whilst he dozes.

 

[ProDeo]

You are not understanding what the principle is about. It is about having mercy as God does.

Of course anyone who has a different opinion than you does not understand, or worse, fixed pattern.

And if Jesus was on the forum, He would be a LOT harsher than I am. Just remember how gentle He was with the Pharisees of His time.

If Jesus were on the forum He will speak truth, not necessarily your truth.

You are pushing Jesus to the background and what He has done for God's creation, us here. Enduring people when He walked on Earth, enduring us now who participate in this thread. You preach works, hardly mentioning Jesus. As if you no longer need Him, can live sinless (not in Scripture) by a higher walk (not in Scripture either).

Us is given one walk, walking in the Spirit, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned -- Romans 12:3

Peace.

 

[Episkopos]

The world of the Pharisee is a world of pretend. In such a world of pretend, real issues are either soft-pedaled or ignored entirely. Children can play "special forces" without having to undergo any of the rigorous training that would qualify them for such in the real world..
So it is in the church...where the spiritual realm takes on the form of a world of pretend...for those who are outside of eternal reality. It is no wonder that any call to reality spoils the children's game. But the game is real because of evil...and those who seek to bring reality to the game are disturbing evil...and will feel the wrath of the hypocrites (play-actors).


A utopian view of the world always leads to tragedy. Extreme ideologies like Communism or Fascism see through blinded eyes (as in, we are just one murder away from having a perfect society) Or on the religious level...if we just kill this one heretic, we will finally have unity in the church. Jesus was a victim of this kind of ideology...hence the importance of understanding how the world really works. When we try to build the church ourselves, we end up killing Christ, over and over again, inasmuch as we persecute those who come to us with the truth in His Name, with correction, with reproof and rebuke. God once remarked..."They kill all the prophets I send them, but perhaps if I send My Son they will listen". The response by the ones playing the game was...it is better for one man to die than to upset the whole game. So the preachers of truth are hated just like Jesus was hated. The builders have rejected the cornerstone: the pretenders have rejected the truth and eternal reality brought by the spokesmen of truth.. These are spoiling the game, as it were. But the one hosting the game and deciding its rules is the devil himself. That is the truth.


The actual condition of the modern church is a tragic one, and the truth functions as that which quenches the euphoric aspirations of the ones who are fully involved in playing church.


Wisdom is in the house of mourning...more than in the house of rejoicing, and much more than in the house of the pretenders.

 

[Lizbeth]

The question is not whether holiness, obedience, repentance, mercy, and the fear of God matter. Scripture plainly teaches that they do. The question is whether people who do not have the Son are already righteous and accepted by God apart from salvation through Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not teach that.

Cornelius is actually a direct refutation of that idea. Cornelius feared God, prayed, gave alms, and had a good reputation. Yet the angel told him to send for Peter, who “shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14).

Cornelius was religious, sincere, charitable, and responsive to the light God had given him, but he still needed to hear and believe the gospel to be saved. That is why Peter preached Christ to him:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Acts 10:35 says that in every nation the person who fears God and works righteousness “is accepted with him.” It does not mean that such a person is already justified, possesses eternal life, or has salvation without Christ. The context proves otherwise. God was showing Peter that He does not reject Gentiles because they are Gentiles. He receives people from every nation, but they must still hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is no biblical category of righteous unbelievers who are accepted by God while lacking the Son. Scripture says:

“There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10).

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

“No man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).

“To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

Jesus did not come merely to move sinners into the same natural righteousness supposedly already possessed by certain unbelievers. He came to save the lost, forgive sins, reconcile sinners to God, and give eternal life to those who believe in Him.

The ninety-nine sheep in Luke 15 do not establish ninety-nine guiltless people who have no need of Christ. The context begins with the Pharisees and scribes complaining that Jesus received sinners. Jesus answered their self-righteous attitude by speaking of “ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance” (Luke 15:7). Scripture has already established that no one is naturally righteous. Jesus was exposing people who considered themselves righteous and saw no need to repent.

Nor does Galatians 2:20 teach that a Christian becomes incapable of sin because Christ lives in him. Christ living in the believer produces holiness and obedience, but John still wrote to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

There is also no passage teaching that the Red Sea is one Christian baptism and the Jordan River is a second baptism that elevates certain believers into sinless perfection. That is an imposed spiritual system, not an interpretation given by Scripture. The same is true of using the early and latter rain, Old Testament sacrifices, or the highway of holiness to construct multiple levels of salvation.

Quoting respected Christian writers does not establish the doctrine either. Their writings must be tested by Scripture just as every other teaching must be tested.

The gospel is not shallow acknowledgment, smug self-confidence, or permission to live in sin. True faith produces obedience and holiness. But our acceptance with God is not based upon our attaining a superior spiritual condition. Believers are “accepted in the beloved” (Ephesians 1:6), meaning accepted through Jesus Christ.

This teaching does not merely add “nuance” to the gospel. It changes the gospel by giving righteousness, acceptance, and a form of life to people who do not have the Son, while turning salvation through Christ into access to a higher spiritual realm. Scripture says the opposite: “He that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

On the subject of holiness, I think we need to consider what it means to be ready and prepared for the Lord's return. Large swaths of the church are not and will not be ready....because like Israel (our ensample), only a remnant will be saved. Each soul needs to keep following the Lord and running the race with all our might as far as He is leading us, and not rest on our laurels. And I believe the necessary suffering for the capstone to be put in place is coming....that is God doing His part. It is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom of God.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

We should not limit what God can do to what our eyes are currently seeing or what we are currently experiencing. The Israelites thought it would be impossible for them to actually enter and possess the Promised Land, but it wasn't. With God all things are possible.

 

[Lizbeth]

The world of the Pharisee is a world of pretend. In such a world of pretend, real issues are either soft-pedaled or ignored entirely. Children can play "special forces" without having to undergo any of the rigorous training that would qualify them for such in the real world..
So it is in the church...where the spiritual realm takes on the form of a world of pretend...for those who are outside of eternal reality. It is no wonder that any call to reality spoils the children's game. But the game is real because of evil...and those who seek to bring reality to the game are disturbing evil...and will feel the wrath of the hypocrites (play-actors).


A utopian view of the world always leads to tragedy. Extreme ideologies like Communism or Fascism see through blinded eyes (as in, we are just one murder away from having a perfect society) Or on the religious level...if we just kill this one heretic, we will finally have unity in the church. Jesus was a victim of this kind of ideology...hence the importance of understanding how the world really works. When we try to build the church ourselves, we end up killing Christ, over and over again, inasmuch as we persecute those who come to us with the truth in His Name, with correction, with reproof and rebuke. God once remarked..."They kill all the prophets I send them, but perhaps if I send My Son they will listen". The response by the ones playing the game was...it is better for one man to die than to upset the whole game. So the preachers of truth are hated just like Jesus was hated. The builders have rejected the cornerstone: the pretenders have rejected the truth and eternal reality brought by the spokesmen of truth.. These are spoiling the game, as it were. But the one hosting the game and deciding its rules is the devil himself. That is the truth.


The actual condition of the modern church is a tragic one, and the truth functions as that which quenches the euphoric aspirations of the ones who are fully involved in playing church.


Wisdom is in the house of mourning...more than in the house of rejoicing, and much more than in the house of the pretenders.

That can work both ways. Maybe you need to listen to some of these words for yourself as well. May the Lord help us all.

 

[amigo de christo]

Of course anyone who has a different opinion than you does not understand, or worse, fixed pattern.



If Jesus were on the forum He will speak truth, not necessarily your truth.

You are pushing Jesus to the background and what He has done for God's creation, us here. Enduring people when He walked on Earth, enduring us now who participate in this thread. You preach works, hardly mentioning Jesus. As if you no longer need Him, can live sinless (not in Scripture) by a higher walk (not in Scripture either).

Us is given one walk, walking in the Spirit, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned -- Romans 12:3

Peace.

Lets correct something . you are spot on right . IF JESUS were on this site HE sure would be speaking TRUTH .
And exposing anything contrary TO THE TRUTH . WHICH epis horse in cart doctrine SURE is contrary all right .
For had one even read the gospels they had seen THE DIRE warnings of what was to come UPON
all who FAILED to BELIEVE ON JESUS . And if folks had read acts they had seen it .
And if folks had read the letters to the churches they had seen this .
And if folks had read even revealtion they had seen it . TO DENY THE SON is nothing more than A Second death sentence .
And to those who do cliam to BLEIEVE on him and yet sure seem to overlook a bit of his words ,
oh they gonna wail too on HIS day .
For had they LOVED GOD they had LOVED CHRIST and if they had loved CHRIST they had loved and kept His words
HIS commandments . Which many no longer do , if even ever they did .

 

[amigo de christo]

That can work both ways. Maybe you need to listen to some of these words for yourself as well. May the Lord help us all.

What one needs to examine is , when one speaks truth what version do he beleive and pratice .
In other words many can often say WE must LOVE GOD , only upon examination of THIS TRUTH
you will find their version of love SURE DONT SEEM TO LOVE HIM FIRST above all . Rather
it seems to put humanity first , and often casts aside HIS OWN words in favor of a lets agree to disagree mindset.
WELL what the church seems to have forgotten is
IT WAS GOD ,HIS CHRIST we should have put first and had fellowship with others who did such .
NOT put HIM second , His words of TRUTH second , FOR SAKE OF UNITY and FELLOWSHIP .
And what are HIS commandments . WHAT and WHO did GOD testify on dear sister .
WHY It was HIS SON , the dire NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
And what was HIS commandment , TO BELIEVE ON JESUS and to love one another .
ONLY i sure seem to see the BELIEVE YE ON JESUS part BEING OMITTED .
But do remember , HE WHO HONORS NOT THE SON , HONORS NOT THE FATHER .
AND HAD ONE TRULY LOVED GOD they had LOVED CHRIST for HE CAME FORTH OF GOD .
And if one truly DID believe and hear the prophets , torah and the law
WELL THEY HAD BELIEVED JESUS , for moses , the prophets , torah and the law , TESTIFIED ON HIM .
I have come to expose inclusive ecumenicalsim for the LIE it truly is dear sister
and to point all and to remind all of THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NECESSITY TO BELIEVE ON JESUS
for to observe all things HE did teach and later the apostels .
And to remind those who do cliam to beleive on HIM , THAT NEITHER The FATHER OR THE SON
is a minstir of ANY SIN , NOR UNBELEIF . FOR GOD cannot and thus CHRIST cannot
and thus the SPIRIT cannot LIE . But will testify ON CHRIST JESUS .
HE who recieves HIS testimony has set to his seal that GOD is TRUE
HE who believes Not the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , calls GOD a liar .
And let us remember JESUS dont honor ANY sin .

 

[bdavidc]

On the subject of holiness, I think we need to consider what it means to be ready and prepared for the Lord's return. Large swaths of the church are not and will not be ready....because like Israel (our ensample), only a remnant will be saved. Each soul needs to keep following the Lord and running the race with all our might as far as He is leading us, and not rest on our laurels. And I believe the necessary suffering for the capstone to be put in place is coming....that is God doing His part. It is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom of God.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

We should not limit what God can do to what our eyes are currently seeing or what we are currently experiencing. The Israelites thought it would be impossible for them to actually enter and possess the Promised Land, but it wasn't. With God all things are possible.

I agree that believers should continue following the Lord, pursue holiness, run the race faithfully, and be watchful for His return. There is no place in the Christian life for complacency or resting on our laurels.

I also agree that believers may face suffering and tribulation. But Acts 14:22 does not say that suffering is God’s part in putting a final spiritual “capstone” in place. It says Paul and Barnabas were strengthening people who were already disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith through the tribulation they would face.

“Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22).

The point is endurance through persecution and hardship, not that suffering itself completes our salvation or makes us finally acceptable to God.

Israel is certainly a warning to us. But Hebrews tells us plainly why that generation failed to enter:

“So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:19).

And yes, with God all things are possible. God is able to keep His people, strengthen them through suffering, and finish the work He began in them. But we still need Scripture to define what He has promised to do and how He does it.