Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

[Davy]

Some treat Christianity as if Jesus had come to start a separate religion, but he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith in Jesus who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with Titus 2:14, where Jesus gave himself to redeem us form all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so Jews coming to faith in Jesus were not ceasing to practice Judaism but were becoming zealous for it. This means that there was a period of time between the resurrection of Jesus and the incision of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews and that Christianity at its origin was the sect of Judaism that recognized Jesus as the Messiah. In Acts 24:14, Paul testified that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he continued to worship the God of their fathers, believing everything laid down by the Torah and written in the Prophets, and the religion of which The Way is a sect is Judaism. While Jesus criticized some Pharisees with the heart behind some of the traditions they were following, that does not mean that he taught separate religion.

That wrongly assumes... that Judaism represents the true worship of God per the old covenant, and even is wrongly regarded as such by Jews today who reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. What didn't you understand with what Jesus said in those Scriptures I posted in my original post?

 

[Davy]

L


LOL Christianity is not derived from Judaism????
Yeshua was a Jew.....His mother Miriam was a jew.....His Apostles were Jews.
He was the prophesied Messiah.....
The first Christian sect was Jewish-Christians.
The Apostles and Jewish-Christians worshipped in the Temple.
The four Gospels.....most of the time when Yeshua is talking to the Jews it about the Mosaic Law.
All of the writers of the New Testament, quoted the Old Testament.
New Testament writers referenced Old Testament characters and stories.

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

The title of Jew is what those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" called themselves (per the Jewish historian Josephus). That was the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi ONLY. It originates from the name of the tribe of Judah. Apostle Paul was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin and not Judah. He was a Jew because all those living in Judea took that name Jew. It never applied to the northern ten tribes.

The religion of Judaism is about the 'traditions' the Jews that went captive to Babylon created. That's where their Babylonian Talmud they still follow to this day came from. It is corruption, and Jesus rebuked their traditions of men. So to claim Christianity is based on Judaism is like saying the Jews did not reject Jesus and did not have Him crucified.

Many brethren are blind to this fact, just as many preachers are too, and keep pushing the lie that the word Jew means all Israelites when it does not, not per God's Word it doesn't, nor does it represent an offshoot of Christianity. Judaism represents the corruptions that came out the Jews ("house of Judah") that fell away from God at the time and God brought the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, upon them and removed them to Babylon.

Only a small remnant of them returned to Jerusalem afterwards, ALONG WITH THE EVIL BASKET OF FIGS, the "tares" of Jesus' parable of Matthew 13 which the devil sowed. This is why Jesus issued the warning that the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, which is the seat of the law and control over the people. The scribes were of the people called Kenites of the land of Canaan and were in charge of keeping the letters of God's Word, and the Pharisees Jesus was pointing to were leftovers of the Canaanites which Israel was not able to destroy per God's commandment.

So you are not talking to someone who is Biblically illiterate about what Judaism represents, even today. Silly Biblically illiterate preachers can claim Christianity is derived from Judaism all they want but it is a FLAT LIE. And MY Lord Jesus Christ showed it as such.

 

[David Lamb]

I agree they need God’s grace to be saved but what I’m saying is that unbelievers are not under the covenant of grace which means that if they stay that way they will be judged by the law.

Thanks, that make is clearer.

 

[Davy]

This statement does not make any sense?
Granted that Yahweh knew what would happen. But no, no Christian sect in the Old Testament.
One of those Sunday School questions.......Why did God wait so long? Why not start salvation with Adam and Eve and their children?

What he quoted from Apostle Paul in Galatians 3 makes perfect... sense.

The Promise by Faith was given FIRST to Abraham, even 430 years prior to the law of Moses being given. That's what Paul said.

The reason why Paul said those of Faith have become the "children of Abraham" is because The Promise by Faith given to Abraham, and Abraham believed and God counted his Faith as righteousness, is about Faith of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Even at the end of John 8, Jesus said that Abraham saw His day and rejoiced.

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:'

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

That's about The Gospel preached to Abraham, dude!

 

[Wrangler]

That wrongly assumes... that Judaism represents the true worship of God per the old covenant

LOL. As opposed to your opposite assumption.

 

[Davy]

I agree they need God’s grace to be saved but what I’m saying is that unbelievers are not under the covenant of grace which means that if they stay that way they will be judged by the law.

This is very true too. It is what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 about his unbelieving brethren the Jews. Right now during this world, God has put the 'spirit of slumber' on the majority of the Jews so they are in unbelief, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (this per Paul in Romans 11).

But they also MUST... believe to be saved when their spiritual blindness is removed when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's coming).

 

[Davy]

LOL. As opposed to your opposite assumption.

All one need do is simply read what Jesus said about it, comparing how the scribes and Pharisees pushed their FALSE TRADITIONS OF MEN to represent Judaism at His 1st coming.

But of course a non-believing Jew instead wants the falseness of Judaism to be THE POWER behind God's Salvation when that idea is promoted by those who HATE Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

Evangelical Christianity has taken the polemic nature of Paul's letters to generate a narrative that Judaism is a graceless religion. And Evangelicalism bought into it hook, line, and sinker. One of my Bible Study classes took pains to point out instances of God's grace in the Old Testament. Watch for it when you read the Hebrew scriptures.

The very founding principle of Judaism is God's grace.
....

Not what Lord Jesus showed with what the scribes and Pharisees were doing, as I quoted in my OP.

If you want to remain deceived about what the Jew's religion is really about, then fine. Go to. But you will only be mocking Jesus' rebuke against Judaism at His 1st coming.

 

[Davy]

More anti-semitism. Jesus was born a Jew under the law and is the Jewish Messiah. There is no evidence he ever stopped being Jewish.

John 4:22 salvation is from the Jews.

Being a Jew is not... the same thing as following the traditions of the scribes and Pharisees' corruptions, which is when the Jew's religion began, corruptions from their Babylon captivity.

And to claim Jesus followed Judaism mocks His rebuke against the traditions of the Jews in the Scriptures I quoted from Jesus in my OP.

 

[Davy]

Jesus, King of the Jews!

A title which Lord Jesus NEVER applied to Himself.

 

[Davy]

Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism​

... except for worshipping the Jewish God and appropriating the Jewish scriptures.

The name 'Jew' did not yet exist when The Gospel was preached first to Abraham, nor when God gave His law through His servant Moses.

The title of Jew couldn't even exist until Jacob had his sons, with one of them named Judah, which is where the title of Jew comes from.

 

[IndianaRob]

This is very true too. It is what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 about his unbelieving brethren the Jews. Right now during this world, God has put the 'spirit of slumber' on the majority of the Jews so they are in unbelief, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (this per Paul in Romans 11).

But they also MUST... believe to be saved when their spiritual blindness is removed when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's coming).

Well I disagree on the spirit of slumber on the majority of Jews right now. I believe the partial blindness ended with the generation that rejected Jesus as messiah when he walked the streets with him.

 

[Davy]

We’ll I disagree on the spirit of slumber on the majority of Jews right now. I believe the partial blindness ended with the generation that rejected Jesus as messiah when he walked the streets with him.

OK, but in today's Jerusalem the Ultra-Orthodox Jews still burn New Testament Bibles.

And western history in Europe even shows how many of them refused to convert to Jesus and were forced to flee from country to country until they were able to return to the holy land. Even today, they exist in as unbelievers in just about all major cities. So there's no doubt a lot more unbelieving Jews in the world than you may think.

 

[IndianaRob]

OK, but in today's Jerusalem the Ultra-Orthodox Jews still burn New Testament Bibles.

And western history in Europe even shows how many of them refused to convert to Jesus and were forced to flee from country to country until they were able to return to the holy land. Even today, they exist in as unbelievers in just about all major cities. So there's no doubt a lot more unbelieving Jews in the world than you may think.

True but the Bible says that blindness in part has happened until the times of the gentiles are over. I realize most people thinks that means god turns back to the Jews at that time for mass Jewish salvation at the end of time but I think the fulness of the gentiles means when God was done using the gentile nations to punish the Jews for rebellion.

We can agree to disagree on that.

 

[Soyeong]

I hear you on the Ferrari illustration, but I'd put it simpler: the Law is for the lost, grace is for the saved.

Paul says as much directly: "the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners" (1 Tim 1:9).

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so him graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is intrinsically what it means for him to save us from not being a doer of it.

The only way to acquire a character trait is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough works to earn it as the result, but what it means to have a character trait is to be a doer of works that embody that traits, so to be courageous means to be a doer of courageous works, to be compassionate means to be a doer of compassionate works, and to be righteous means to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7, Isaiah 51:7), and so forth. If someone abuses 1 Timothy 1:9 in order to just their freedom to be a doer of unrighteous works, then they thereby become an unrighteous person that the Law of God was made for. Instruction to teach someone how to be a doer of courageous works are not made to teach those who already know how to be a doer of courageous works, but rather they are made to teach those who are not doers of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait.

 

[Lambano]

The name 'Jew' did not yet exist when The Gospel was preached first to Abraham, nor when God gave His law through His servant Moses.

The title of Jew couldn't even exist until Jacob had his sons, with one of them named Judah, which is where the title of Jew comes from.

"That may be so - but it is also irrelevant."
- Col. Nguyen Don Tu

 

[Wrangler]

Being a Jew is not... the same thing as following the traditions

“Being a Jew” has more than one sense. You’re using one sense to deny the other. Facts is, no matter how you look at it, Jesus was a Jew and to understand ANYTHING he said one must know the Jewish (Judaism) prophecies he fulfilled and Jewish world view he discussed.

And to claim Jesus followed Judaism mocks His rebuke against the traditions of the Jews

Two things can be true at the same time. Traditions got corrupted over time AND Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, meaning the Jewish law.

 

[Lambano]

Not what Lord Jesus showed with what the scribes and Pharisees were doing, as I quoted in my OP.

If you want to remain deceived about what the Jew's religion is really about, then fine. Go to. But you will only be mocking Jesus' rebuke against Judaism at His 1st coming.

I'm recommending you actually READ THE OLD TESTAMENT and actually TALK to some REAL Jews and READ what the Jewish people SAY ABOUT THEIR OWN RELIGION IN THEIR OWN WORDS to understand what Judaism is all about.

 

[Lambano]

Do you understand that the understanding of Jesus's atoning death for our sins that forms one of the core Christian doctrines is derived from the Jewish Yom Kippur ritual? How can you say, then, that Christianity is not derived from Judaism?

 

[Lambano]

"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist."
- 1 Corinthians 8:6a

Another core Christian doctrine derived from Judaism. Where we depart from Judaism is part b of the same verse.