MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

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Truth7t7

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The beast is a demonic being that deceives people into taking the mark,
Your Claim Is "FALSE"

The (False Prophet) will be a literal living human man and he will perform false miracles in calling fire down from heaven, this will be used to "Deceive" the world into taking the mark and worshipping the image

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles
which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The Beast and False Prophet will have living bodies that will be cast into the lake of fire

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

Marty fox

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Your Claim Is "FALSE"

The (False Prophet) will be a literal living human man and he will perform false miracles in calling fire down from heaven, this will be used to "Deceive" the world into taking the mark and worshipping the image

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles
which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The Beast and False Prophet will have living bodies that will be cast into the lake of fire

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revalation 20
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Judgment of the Dead​

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Only spiritual beings are cast into the lake of fire before the judgement day
 

Marty fox

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Then what does the cashier see?

Is it the character of God to dam a single mother for taking a literal mark in ignorance to feed her kidsbut forgive Paul for persecuting the hurch? Even though a literal mark isn't what Jesus taught us the only unforgivable sin is.

The bible isn't all a literal text its a message, and the message shows us the Fathers heart
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes me and what I've been saying to myself about your proposed interpretation of Revelation 13:17. You must have read my mind, the fact you bring this up.

Revelation 13:17 clearly says, that unless one has the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name, that person is not permitted to buy and sell.


You appear to be divorcing this part---save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name---from this part---And that no man might buy or sell.

The context of Revelation 13:17 is the MOTB. The context of the 2 passages you provided are not MOTB related. So why are you bringing them up?
By bringing up the other verses I'm showing that buying or selling does not have to be understood in the sense of buying or selling material things. So, that should be taken into consideration. Yet, some do not seem to want to even try to take that into consideration.

Having the mark of the beast is the opposite of having the seal of God. Those who have the seal of God are saved. The seal symbolically represents the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). Do you think the seal of God is a physical seal? If not, then why do you think the mark of the beast has to be a physical mark? Why does the reference to not being able to buy or sell have to refer to the buying or selling of material things, keeping in mind that scripture uses the words buy or sell at times in a figurative sense rather than literal?

Let's say that the mark of the beast is physical. That would mean that people would have to know that taking the mark would mean they are rejecting Jesus Christ because having the mark of the beast means you are not saved and are giving your allegiance to Satan and the beast rather than to God/Jesus Christ. So, what is your understanding of what will happen in terms of a physical mark being forced upon people that would indicate that they are rejecting Jesus Christ?
 
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David in NJ

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I'm saying it is one number in the Greek, not two separate numbers of two separate things added together such as 66 books of a bible and just the number 6 for man.

Rev also says it's the number of a name of the beast.

Rev_13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Rev_15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
ISLAM
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The buying and selling of exactly what, that only those with the MOTB are permitted to do???????? If it's not material things, then what it is that only those with the MOTB are permitted to buy and sell, but those without the MOTB are not permitted to buy and sell? How can it be something spiritual or whatever you are trying to say here?
Why can't it be? Notice in Proverbs 23:23 it talks about buying the truth and not selling it. Is the truth a material thing that we can buy or sell? No. Jesus talked about people buying from Him gold and white garments (Revelation 3:18). Was He talking about literal gold and white garments? No. So, that shows the words buy or sell can be used figuratively. That's my point. So, I see it as talking about those without the MOTB not being able to freely buy or sell in the sense of the preaching of the gospel. Those who preach or believe the gospel are persecuted and it's not acceptable to those who have the MOTB and worship the beast.

And you say I'm hard to follow sometimes?
That's a fact. You are hard to follow sometimes. And you know it, so why deny it? I believe I might be hard to follow occasionally. But, just ask me questions if you don't know what i mean instead of trying to make things personal as you almost always do. And then you end up complaining about it.

In light of what Revelation 13:17 clearly and plainly says, I have no idea why you are bringing up passages that are not MOTB related.
So, just ask me why then. Very simple. I just told you in my previous post.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The 'mark' will be required in order to buy & sell.
How will a 'marked' person know who they can buy or sell with ?
Simple easy question, if you don't know then say so :)
He addressed the question at length in his response and you are saying he didn't? What is wrong with you? Grow up. If you don't like or understand an answer, that's your problem. You can't claim that it wasn't answered just because you don't like or don't understand the answer.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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So, your eternal destiny in the last days is going to be determined by taking or not taking an electronic AI mark? What nonsense! Your eternal destiny in the last days (like any other day) is determined by your response to Jesus Christ and His precious Word.

Open your Bible and interpret Scripture with Scripture instead of wasting your time on ridiculous demonic antichrist conspiracy theories.

You are preaching a false gospel!
Exactly! They are turning a spiritual matter (salvation, eternal destinies) into one that is based on physical things like a physical mark which has NEVER been the case. Spiritual salvation is never based on doing or not doing physical acts. Do you notice that many of these people who think the mark of the beast is some physical mark do not also try to claim that the seal of God is a physical seal? Where is the consistency in that. Those with discernment can see that the mark of the beast is the spiritual opposite of the seal of God and neither are physical seals/marks.
 

David in NJ

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How? It seems to be a mark to identify one as belonging to the beast as the mark is somehow related to his name.

I don't think that is a blasphemy directly against the HS though. If it said the mark is a mark against the HS, then sure but I don't see it being like that. It basically ensures the HS won't go to that person but perhaps repentance/forgiveness is possible. Some gang members still have their gang tattoos but are changed people. Maybe the MoB can be similar for those who regret it and repent.







I don't see any passage saying anything about being sealed in regard to the mark, nor that one cannot be un-marked. A tattoo can be erased, or a microchip be removed, or mind can be changed from serving the beast to rejecting him.

How many people have served satan their entire lives but then found Jesus and repented and are no longer satan's?
My apology as i became sidetracked and furgettin to reply.

The introduction of the COVID Vaxx was developed as "genetic therapy(lol) which is = genetic altering science/technology


This is the same attack upon mankind as what took place with the fallen angels in Noah's Day = "as in the days of Noah"

That my Brother, is what makes it the "Unforgivable Sin"

Not the Covid Vaxx = BUT what is soon coming.

The Covid Vaxx was a TEST
 
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TLHKAJ

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Exactly, and when one understands what the number of the beast means, then it all becomes clear, and the mark becomes clear too. The problem is I have yet to run across another person (on forums) who will accept counting the number as the Bible says — even though the result of counting the number is very telling, people still won't believe it.

I don’t t even attempt to explain it anymore.
Brother, one way to be sure is not to receive it at all.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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MarkOfTheBeast - MOTB
Rev 13:16-17
Rev 14 :9-11
Without taking the 'mark' << MOTB how will a person buy & sell ?
How will anyone know who has the 'mark' if a 'mark' is not seen on the persons hand or forehead ?
How will anyone know who has the seal of God, which scripture says is on the foreheads of believers? Do you think the seal of God is a physical seal that can be seen? Jesus said that people are known by their fruits (their actions - Matthew 7:16,20), not by having a physical mark on their right hand or forehead.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Here is a verse that says either worship or receive the mark, not necessarily both.

Revelation 14:11

11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.
Other translations do not have the word "or" in that verse before it says "anyone who receives the mark of its name". They have "and" instead. Worshiping the beast and having the mark of the beast go hand in hand. That verse is not saying someone can do one without the other. Think about it from how you see it as a physical mark. Why would someone who worships the beast refuse to take its mark? They wouldn't. Their worship of the beast means they will do whatever the beast wants them to do, including taking its mark. So, there is no basis at all for thinking that anyone who worships the beast does not have the mark of the beast or vice versa.
 

Anchorite

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Other translations do not have the word "or" in that verse before it says "anyone who receives the mark of its name". They have "and" instead. Worshiping the beast and having the mark of the beast go hand in hand. That verse is not saying someone can do one without the other. Think about it from how you see it as a physical mark. Why would someone who worships the beast refuse to take its mark? They wouldn't. Their worship of the beast means they will do whatever the beast wants them to do, including taking its mark. So, there is no basis at all for thinking that anyone who worships the beast does not have the mark of the beast or vice versa.
I agree that the person who worships the beast will take the mark of the beast.

It is error to think you have to do both to be damned into the lake of fire.

That’s looking for a loophole, like if you take the mark so you can buy and sell, but do not worship the beast, you’ll be okay and not go into the lake of fire.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I agree that the person who worships the beast will take the mark of the beast.

It is error to think you have to do both to be damned into the lake of fire.

That’s looking for a loophole, like if you take the mark so you can buy and sell, but do not worship the beast, you’ll be okay and not go into the lake of fire.
I don't believe it's even possible to worship the beast without also having the mark of the beast, so that loophole scenario is not one that I can take seriously.
 

David in NJ

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Exactly, and when one understands what the number of the beast means, then it all becomes clear, and the mark becomes clear too. The problem is I have yet to run across another person (on forums) who will accept counting the number as the Bible says — even though the result of counting the number is very telling, people still won't believe it.

I don’t t even attempt to explain it anymore.
The word “mark” is translated from the Greek charagma (Strong’s Greek concordance reference #5480) as “a scratch or etching, ie stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue): graven image.” In the Roman context charagma was the imperial stamp that was placed on official documents. It was also a “badge of servitude” etched, inscribed or branded on slaves to designate ownership. Soldiers often branded themselves with the name of their favorite general and religious cult devotees placed tattoos of their favorite gods as symbolic of their devotion and allegiance.[29]
 
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