Revelation chapter 11 questions

[William Barton]

Jay Ross noted:
<I do not believe that the scriptures support your understanding.>

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came among them." (Job 1:6)

Let us understand that Satan was thrown down long ago (Ezekiel28:14-17). Also, the book of Job is dated perhaps second Millennium B.C., and in Job 1:6 above Satan is *already* roaming the earth.

Let us also remember that angels and cherubim do not die.

The Bible indicates there will a future desperate war in heaven as well, when Satan sees that his days of roaming the earth are numbered, and that he is to be cast into hell (Revelation 12:7).

And as I have suggested before:
IT'S IN THE BOOK.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay Ross noted:
<I do not believe that the scriptures support your understanding.>

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came among them." (Job 1:6)

Sorry William, but your claim proves nothing of any substance.

Shalom

 

[William Barton]

Satan is a Cherub who once served in the temple, and he has been granted occasional returns to heaven.

"War in heaven" (Revelation 12:7-17) suggests there will be a future last effort of Satan and his angels to gain access to heaven, before they are thrown down to the earth again.

Jesus and his angels will subsequently come down to earth, at a time future to today, and a battle will ensue (Revelation 19:11-21). The Lamb of God takes the role of Lion of Jehovah.

Satan is then thrown into a pit *inside* the earth, presumably along with his angels as well. They will be there for 1000 years (Revelation 20:7).

After that they are released and the battle of Har Megiddo ensues (Revelation 20:7-10).

 

[William Barton]

This is what John has written: -

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Revelation 12:7-9: - Satan Thrown Down to Earth​

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7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him​

IMO:
That passage describes a future event, and that event in no way implies that Satan is continually in heaven.

I noted pteviously that Satan is granted occasional visits to heaven. The Bible indicates he was thrown down to earth long ago (Ezekiel 28:17).

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
Satan was thrown down to earth, as I noted. The verse about "war in heaven" refers to the end of the millennium, when the New Heavens and Earth are about to appear, and the old heavens and earth are about to be disposed, along with Satan and his angels. The short battle you site is the desperate attempt of fallen angels to go down swinging (Revelation 12:7-17).

"Woe to the one who strives against his Creator." (Isaiah 45:9)

 

[William Barton]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Verse 3-6 is about the Two Witnesses, messengers of God, it is still about Jerusalem.

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [ESV]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [KJV]

So in Jerusalem the beast that rises from the bottomless pit murders the messengers of God in Jerusalem and God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, a number of possibilities :

. The religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, the Sadducees once again.
. Rome
. The Zealots who denied Christ and waged war on Rome (66–73 AD).

Is the beast Israel itself in that time period (33-70AD) ?

And if Revelation 11 is future, the same question is valid.

IMO:
"Temple," in the context you indicate, is built under direction of the Anti-Christ.

When the temple is complete he will sit in it, as though he were God (2Thessalonians 2:4).

 

[William Barton]

But why can't the destroyer be another name for satan? It does call him the king and satan is the ruler of darkness

A beast is an animal, and animals have no morals. Calling a person a "beast" is a figure of speech.

"Destroyer" indicates an invader. There were six such invaders of Israel, all supported by fallen angels and cerubim:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

IMO:
The "beast" is one of many fallen angels thrown down to the earth, along with Satan (Ezekiel 28:14-16). The beast and Satan will support the Anti-Christ.

The Anti-Christ is not an invader, quite the opposite, he is a man who will negotiate a peace treaty between Israel and the other Middle-Eastern nations. Afterward he will sit in the temple, as though he were God (2Thessalonians 2:4).