Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[David in NJ]

Israel did not exist during the time of Paul's ministry. Any reference to it is metaphorical as well as citizenship in a country that did not exist. We are not part of Judaism or Israel.
We are of the family of God, sons and daughters of God....part of the body of Christ. That is the most significant.
Today Christians are not citizens of the country of Israel.

Israel existed during Christ and Paul's ministry.

Why would you think not?

 

[Grailhunter]

If you want to call the Israel that we are part of metaphorical, so be it, but you can't deny the existence of an Israel that has existed during the New Testament consisting of those who are the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed (Romans 9:6-8).

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Israel existed during Christ and Paul's ministry.

Why would you think not?

Because it did not exist during the New Testament.
During the New Testament the Jews did not have a country or kingdom. They were under the rule of Romans.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

You are very repetitive and evasive. No need for the all caps. Calm down. There is an Israel that has existed during the New Testament time period and Paul referenced it in Romans 9:6-8, Ephesians 2:11 and Galatians 6:16. You are saying the physical nation of Israel didn't exist. Yeah, no kidding. So what? And no one is saying that Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel, so why keep saying that? Would you call the Israel that Paul said consists of those who are the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed "Metaphorical Israel"?

 

[WPM]

Israel was conquered by the Assyrians and reestablished after the 6 day war.

So, from either 734 BC or 722 BC to AD 1967?

 

[David in NJ]

Because it did not exist during the New Testament.
During the New Testament the Jews did not have a country or kingdom. They were under the rule of Romans.

lol my brother

That does NOT exclude them from being Israel

John 1:47 - When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, “Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is no deceit.”

Matthew 15:24 - But Jesus answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Luke 1:26 - In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."

Matthew 2:1-6
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, 2asking, “Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews? We saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

3When King Herod heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.
4And when he had assembled all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he asked them where the Christ was to be born.

5“In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
6‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah,
for out of you will come a ruler
who will be the shepherd of My people Israel.’”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because it did not exist during the New Testament.
During the New Testament the Jews did not have a country or kingdom. They were under the rule of Romans.

So, how would you identify the Israel that existed at the time Paul wrote Romans 9:6-8 of which not all who were descended from the physical nation of Israel were part? Would you call it Metaphorical Israel? Many of us call it Spiritual Israel or the Israel of God, as Paul called it in Galatians 6:16.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are very repetitive and evasive. No need for the all caps. Calm down. There is an Israel that has existed during the New Testament time period and Paul referenced it in Romans 9:6-8, Ephesians 2:11 and Galatians 6:16. You are saying the physical nation of Israel didn't exist. Yeah, no kidding. So what? And no one is saying that Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel, so why keep saying that? Would you call the Israel that Paul said consists of those who are the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed "Metaphorical Israel"?

Yes I am saying the physical nation of Israel did not exist during the New Testament.

So if no one is saying that the Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel.

Yahweh told Abraham about land....people call them promises and promise land but the word promise does not occur in the Old Testament.
But our religion tracks from Abraham. Then Israel and the Israelites and Jews failed God and their nation conquered and were under the rule of Assyrians, then Persia, then Rome.

And again there is no Christian church called the Church of Israel.

Speculations.....Paul was a Jew and I am thinking he felt bad for his people and he was drawing comparisons between the Jews and Israel metaphorically.

 

[Grailhunter]

lol my brother

That does NOT exclude them from being Israel

John 1:47 - When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, “Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is no deceit.”

Matthew 15:24 - But Jesus answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Luke 1:26 - In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."

Matthew 2:1-6
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, 2asking, “Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews? We saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

3When King Herod heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.
4And when he had assembled all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he asked them where the Christ was to be born.

5“In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
6‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah,
for out of you will come a ruler
who will be the shepherd of My people Israel.’”

The key point lost.....lost house of Israel.
The cities were still there but no nation of Israel and under the rule of the Roman empire.
The Romans would have killed anyone proclaiming being part of Israel.

 

[WPM]

Yes I am saying the physical nation of Israel did not exist during the New Testament.

So if no one is saying that the Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel.

Yahweh told Abraham about land....people call them promises and promise land but the word promise does not occur in the Old Testament.
But our religion tracks from Abraham. Then Israel and the Israelites and Jews failed God and their nation conquered and were under the rule of Assyrians, then Persia, then Rome.

And again there is no Christian church called the Church of Israel.

Speculations.....Paul was a Jew and I am thinking he felt bad for his people and he was drawing comparisons between the Jews and Israel metaphorically.

What metaphorical concept? Explain what this metaphorical concept means? Which text/s are you referring to? Are humans part of this metaphorical concept? If so, who are they?

 

[Grailhunter]

So, how would you identify the Israel that existed at the time Paul wrote Romans 9:6-8 of which not all who were descended from the physical nation of Israel were part? Would you call it Metaphorical Israel? Many of us call it Spiritual Israel or the Israel of God, as Paul called it in Galatians 6:16.

Well call it what you will.....but Israel did not exist.....
Sure memories of their lost nation was heavy on their minds.
There was a mind set of a spiritual Israel but you cannot draw a picture of spiritual Israel.
And they wanted their nation back....ie all the Jewish revolts.
Then Israel was re-established after the 6 day war, but it was not established as a Christian nation.

 

[Grailhunter]

What metaphorical concept? Explain what this metaphorical concept means? Which text/s are you referring to? Are humans part of this metaphorical concept? If so, who are they?

Humans think of metaphorical concepts.....nothing material....
Like the body of Christ, it is not a physical thing.
No one could say, lets go to the nation of Israel, because it did not exist during the New Testament.
But they could sit around the campfire and think about Israel.

 

[David in NJ]

The key point lost.....lost house of Israel.
The cities were still there but no nation of Israel and under the rule of the Roman empire.

Being under Roman rule does not mean they ceased to exist as Israel

They were no longer independent as a sovereign nation but they did not cease as a nation.

Who were they when they were in bondage to Egypt? = a nation created by God and a slave nation until God set them free

Exodus 12:40-42
Now the sojourn of the children of Israel who lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.
And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years—on that very same day—it came to pass that all the armies of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt. It is a night of solemn observance to the Lord for bringing them out of the land of Egypt.
This is that night of the Lord, a solemn observance for all the children of Israel throughout their generations.

The Romans would have killed anyone proclaiming being part of Israel.

lol - Rome knew who they were and permitted them to assemble as Israelites
And that's why they had a HUGE TEMPLE in Jerusalem for.........wait for it.............the Israelites
And synagogues for the Israelites

The Land of Israel Under Roman Rule | My Jewish Learning

Palestine Under Roman Rule. Jewish History from 539 BCE - 632 CE. Ancient Jewish History. Jewish History and Community.

www.myjewishlearning.com

 

[WPM]

Humans think of metaphorical concepts.....nothing material....
Like the body of Christ, it is not a physical thing.
No one could say, lets go to the nation of Israel, because it did not exist during the New Testament.
But they could sit around the campfire and think about Israel.

This is as clear as mud. You are absolutely ducking around the issue. You seem to be making it up as you go.

So the metaphorical concept is the citizenship of Israel. Explain what this metaphorical citizenship of Israel concept means? Which text/s are you referring to? Are humans part of this metaphorical citizenship of Israel concept? If so, who are they?

 

[WPM]

Well call it what you will.....but Israel did not exist.....
Sure memories of their lost nation was heavy on their minds.
There was a mind set of a spiritual Israel but you cannot draw a picture of spiritual Israel.
And they wanted their nation back....ie all the Jewish revolts.
Then Israel was re-established after the 6 day war, but it was not established as a Christian nation.

So what citizenship of Israel did exist at that time who NT Gentiles joined?

 

[Grailhunter]

Being under Roman rule does not mean they ceased to exist as Israel

They were no longer independent as a sovereign nation but they did not cease as a nation.

Who were they when they were in bondage to Egypt? = a nation created by God and a slave nation

Exodus 12:40-42
Now the sojourn of the children of Israel who lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.
And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years—on that very same day—it came to pass that all the armies of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt. It is a night of solemn observance to the Lord for bringing them out of the land of Egypt.
This is that night of the Lord, a solemn observance for all the children of Israel throughout their generations.

When was the nation of Israel established?
Israel first became a nation in the Old Testament with the Exodus from Egypt, around the 13th–15th century BCE.

When did the Nation of Israel cease to exist?

The Northern Kingdom of Israel fell to the Assyrians in 722 BCE, and the Southern Kingdom of Judah fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE, marking the end of Israel as an independent nation in Old Testament times.​

The ten tribes were captured and enslaved and their women taken and breed out of existence.
The Israelites were first under the rule of the Assyrians and then the Babylonians and then Persia, The Persians were conquered by Alexander the great around 330 BC and then all became the Roman Empire. They remained under Roman rule for the duration of the New Testament. Then during the Jewish revolt and the Roman siege of Jerusalem the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
The tribes that existed in the New Testament were the Levites and Benjamites.
The nation of Israel was not re-established until the 6 Day war in 1967.

​

 

[Grailhunter]

This is as clear as mud. You are absolutely ducking around the issue. You seem to be making it up as you go.

So the metaphorical concept is the citizenship of Israel. Explain what this metaphorical citizenship of Israel concept means? Which text/s are you referring to? Are humans part of this metaphorical citizenship of Israel concept? If so, who are they?

No I am telling the truth...the facts.
It means they were thinking of it in their minds.....there is no real citizenship in a metaphorical concept. No place to live in a metaphorical Israel. No place to live in a spiritual Israel. No way to govern in metaphorical Israel. Yeshua would be the King of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Grailhunter]

So what citizenship of Israel did exist at that time who NT Gentiles joined?

Again a metaphor. Can you join a nation that does not exist.
Today we cannot join the Roman Empire or be a citizen of the Roman Empire because.....it does not exist anymore.
The Gentiles were converted to Christianity. The were not made Jewish. They were never allowed in the Temple.

 

[jeffweeder]

The Church of Christ not Israel.

We will be the New Jerusalem, glorified heirs in Gods household to dwell in his light and righteousness 4 ever.

 

[David in NJ]

When was the nation of Israel established?
Israel first became a nation in the Old Testament with the Exodus from Egypt, around the 13th–15th century BCE.

When did the Nation of Israel cease to exist?

The Northern Kingdom of Israel fell in 722 BCE, and the Southern Kingdom of Judah fell in 586 BCE, marking the end of Israel as an independent nation in Old Testament times.​

The ten tribes were captured into slavery and their women taken and breed out of existence.
The Israelites were first under the rule of the Assyrians and the Barbaloins and then Persia, The Persians were conquered by Alexander the great around 330 BC and then all became the Roman Empire. The remained under Roman rule for the duration of the New Testament. Then during Jewish revolt and the Roman siege of Jerusalem the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
The tribes that existed in the New Testament were the Levites and Benjamites.
The nation of Israel was not re-established until the 6 Day war in 1967.

​

That is the history of the nation of Israel
lol