Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[Grailhunter]

Can you answer his question? Which Israel is it that Gentile believers were formerly excluded from and not citizens of that were brought near and made fellow citizens of by the blood of Christ?

Israel did not exist during the time of Paul's ministry. Any reference to it is metaphorical as well as citizenship in a country that did not exist. We are not part of Judaism or Israel.
We are of the family of God, sons and daughters of God....part of the body of Christ. That is the most significant.
Today Christians are not citizens of the country of Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Paul said Gentile believers were once excluded from citizenship in the commonwealth of Israel, but are "now fellow citizens" with Jewish believers because of the blood of Christ. Fellow citizens of what? The commonwealth of Israel. Spiritual Israel. The Israel of God. Whatever you want to call the Israel that only consists of "the community of Christians".

See post 341

 

[Grailhunter]

You are a master at avoiding and twisting Scripture. Answer the questions above. Which Israel is it that Gentile believers were formerly excluded from and were not citizens of that they have now been brought near to and have been made fellow citizens of by the blood of Christ?

Because there is no "which Israel" Before Paul they were not allowed convert unless they were circumcised and obeyed the Mosaic Law. ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!!!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Israel did not exist during the time of Paul's ministry. Any reference to it is metaphorical as well as citizenship in a country that did not exist. We are not part of Judaism or Israel.

Why are you not addressing what Ephesians 2:11-22 clearly indicates? Paul said that Gentiles were formerly excluded from citizenship in the commonwealth of Israel but are now fellow citizens because of the blood of Christ. Fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. You are missing that there is more than one Israel referenced in scripture. He was talking about the same Israel of which not all who descend from physical Israel are part, as he described in Romans 9:6-8. That is called spirtual Israel, true Israel. In Galatians 6:15-16 it is called "the Israel of God".

We are of the family of God, sons and daughters of God....part of the body of Christ. That is the most significant.

We are now fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel with Jewish believers, according to Paul in Ephesians 2:11-22.

Today Christians are not citizens of the country of Israel.

No one is saying that. We are citizens of the spiritual Israel of God. You are just blatantly ignoring what Paul explicitly indicated in Ephesians 2:11-22. Why? As a dispensationalist, don't you normally take most scripture very literally? Why do you suddenly take a different approach when it comes to Ephesians 2:11-22?

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. You are doing your best to reject what the text says. It actually says the "citizenship of Israel." Hello! It is not talking about the citizenship of Ireland, Italy, or Iceland.

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Who are the true circumcision today?

Circumcision is not a who.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why are you not addressing what Ephesians 2:11-22 clearly indicates? Paul said that Gentiles were formerly excluded from citizenship in the commonwealth of Israel but are now fellow citizens because of the blood of Christ. Fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. You are missing that there is more than one Israel referenced in scripture. He was talking about the same Israel of which not all who descend from physical Israel are part, as he described in Romans 9:6-8. That is called spirtual Israel, true Israel. In Galatians 6:15-16 it is called "the Israel of God".

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

No one is saying that. We are citizens of the spiritual Israel of God. You are just blatantly ignoring what Paul explicitly indicated in Ephesians 2:11-22. Why? As a dispensationalist, don't you normally take most scripture very literally? Why do you suddenly take a different approach when it comes to Ephesians 2:11-22?

Exactly......ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because there is no "which Israel" Before Paul they were not allowed convert unless they were circumcised and obeyed the Mosaic Law. ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!!!

If Israel did not exist during the New Testament time period, then how do you interpret the following passage that refers to an Israel that has existed during the entire New Testament time period, but not all who physically descend from the physical nation of Israel are part of it?

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Paul refers to an Israel here that existed at that time and consisted of "God's children" who are "the children of the promise" and are "regarded as Abraham's offspring". You are contradicting Paul by saying there is no Israel that exists during the New Testament time period.

You are showing a very high level of ignorance when it comes to what scripture teaches. How did you come to believe what you believe (pre-trib dispensationalism)? Did someone teach you?

 

[Grailhunter]

If Israel did not exist during the New Testament time period, then how do you interpret the following passage that refers to an Israel that has existed during the entire New Testament time period, but not all who physically descend from the physical nation of Israel are part of it?

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Paul refers to an Israel here that existed at that time and consisted of "God's children" who are "the children of the promise" and are "regarded as Abraham's offspring". You are contradicting Paul by saying there is no Israel that exists during the New Testament time period.

Exactly.....For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

If you notice there is no Christian church called The Church of True Israel or Spiritual Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly.....For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!!

WOW!!! Are you even trying to understand what is written in scripture? What Israel are you talking about? The Israel of which not all who descended from the physical nation of Israel most certainly HAS EXISTED DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! To deny that would be like denying that the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed/offpsring have not existed during the New Testament time period.

Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

So, you acknowledge that Romans 9:6-8 refers to a metaphorical Israel? No one is saying that Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel. Are you making any effort at all to understand the points WPM and I are making?

 

[Grailhunter]

WOW!!! Are you even trying to understand what is written in scripture? What Israel are you talking about? The Israel of which not all who descended from the physical nation of Israel most certainly HAS EXISTED DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! To deny that would be like denying that the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed/offpsring have not existed during the New Testament time period.

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.
And do you think you can find a Christian church called Church of Israel?

 

[Grailhunter]

So, you acknowledge that Romans 9:6-8 refers to a metaphorical Israel? No one is saying that Gentile Christians are part of Judaism or the physical nation of Israel. Are you making any effort at all to understand the points WPM and I are making?

I understand....I don't think that you understand.
When the scriptures talk about the body of Christ, they are not talking about a giant Christ walking around with Christians attached to him. It is metaphorical.

 

[WPM]

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

Explain what "metaphorical ... Israel" looks like and which humans are part of that?

 

[WPM]

Exactly......ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.

Historically, when did Israel stop existing as a nation and when did she restart being a nation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

ISRAEL DID NOT EXIST DURING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Any reference to it is metaphorical. Gentile-Christians are not part of Judaism or Israel.
And do you think you can find a Christian church called Church of Israel?

If you want to call the Israel that we are part of metaphorical, so be it, but you can't deny the existence of an Israel that has existed during the New Testament consisting of those who are the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed (Romans 9:6-8).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand....I don't think that you understand.
When the scriptures talk about the body of Christ, they are not talking about a giant Christ walking around with Christians attached to him. It is metaphorical.

LOL. So, would you refer to the Israel that Paul referenced in Romans 9:6-8 of which not all who physically descend from the physical nation of Israel are part and which consists of the children of God and of the promise who are counted as Abraham's seed as "Metaphorical Israel"? Paul called it "the commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2 and said that Gentiles were formerly not citizens of it but now are fellow citizens of it because of the blood of Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Explain what "metaphorical ... Israel" looks like and which humans are part of that?

Exactly.....it is a concept, a thought.

 

[WPM]

Exactly.....it is a concept, a thought.

What concept? Explain what this concept means? Which text/s are you referring to? Are humans part of this concept? If so, who are they?

 

[Grailhunter]

Historically, when did Israel stop existing as a nation and when did she restart being a nation?

Israel was conquered by the Assyrians and reestablished after the 6 day war.