After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

[1stCenturyLady]

Someone asked you a question. You could of declined to answer. You chose to lie to them about it. It sounds willful to me

I agree, and that is what scares me. I am not used to lying. If I had not answered at all, that is a damning answer in itself, so that was NOT an option. To keep my privacy in tact, I was forced to lie. So who's fault is that? His or mine?

 

[Lambano]

I agree, and that is what scares me. I am not used to lying. If I had not answered at all, that is a damning answer in itself, so that was NOT an option. To keep my privacy in tact, I was forced to lie. So who's fault is that? His or mine?

Who was responsible?
Who knew better?

 

[Armour of God]

I agree, and that is what scares me. I am not used to lying. If I had not answered at all, that is a damning answer in itself, so that was NOT an option. To keep my privacy in tact, I was forced to lie. So who's fault is that? His or mine?

Declining to answer is always an option.
Just say none of your business.
I believe if you repent than God forgives.
Very few people think they are perfect after being born again, no one on this thread does. I sometimes have thoughts of lust and jealousy which cloud my mind and are sins. Remember that Paul also describes his battle with sin saying that evil is always there despite wanting to be good

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Declining to answer is always an option.
Just say none of your business.
I believe if you repent than God forgives.
Very few people think they are perfect after being born again, no one on this thread does. I sometimes have thoughts of lust and jealousy which cloud my mind and are sins. Remember that Paul also describes his battle with sin saying that evil is always there despite wanting to be good

Paul said that when writing about when being under the law UNSAVED. Romans 7 is the history of the law. Verse 9 is about mankind before Moses and after Moses. ONLY Verses 5-6 is about NOW that Jesus cleanses us of SIN. And verses 14-25 is more details about life when we were UNDER the LAW. Paul's current life was only 5-6. Go back and read the whole chapter, not pulling scriptures out of context.

You don't understand. I KNEW I was sinning when I was lying. It WASN'T UNINTENTIONAL. He had no right to ask me, and I felt at the time he was forcing me to lie about something that happened BEFORE I was born again. Not answering this particular person was NOT AN OPTION. Repenting while willfully sinning is what I was doing AS I was sinning. What you are suggesting is like a born again fornicating unwed mother going in for an abortion knowing it is murder and a sin. Do you honestly not know when in the state of 1 John 3:9 shows what Jesus blood already did. No desire to commit sins unto death. So you are suggesting that I make Jesus die on the cross AGAIN. Don't you know there is no more sacrifice for willful sinning a sin unto death AFTER He has already freed me of sins unto death. The question is WAS IT A SIN UNTO DEATH OR NOT. Thus the only question for this OP. I cannot go back and unring the bell!

 

[Armour of God]

Paul said that when writing about when being under the law UNSAVED. Romans 7 is the history of the law. Verse 9 is about mankind before Moses and after Moses. ONLY Verses 5-6 is about NOW that Jesus cleanses us of SIN. And verses 14-25 is more details about life when we were UNDER the LAW. Paul's current life was only 5-6. Go back and read the whole chapter, not pulling scriptures out of context.

You don't understand. I KNEW I was sinning when I was lying. It WASN'T UNINTENTIONAL. He had no right to ask me, and I felt at the time he was forcing me to lie about something that happened BEFORE I was born again. Not answering this particular person was NOT AN OPTION. Repenting while willfully sinning is what I was doing AS I was sinning. What you are suggesting is like a born again fornicating unwed mother going in for an abortion knowing it is murder and a sin. Do you honestly not know when in the state of 1 John 3:9 shows what Jesus blood already did. No desire to commit sins unto death. So you are suggesting that I make Jesus die on the cross AGAIN. Don't you know there is no more sacrifice for willful sinning a sin unto death AFTER He has already freed me of sins unto death. The question is WAS IT A SIN UNTO DEATH OR NOT. Thus the only question for this OP. I cannot go back and unring the bell!

Well, that's your opinion I guess
Paul wrote that after his conversion
He is clearly writing in the present, not the past
That's why he says
"wretched man that I am"
Not was, not past tense.
Clearly present tense.
His writing about his personal struggle with sin after his conversion

 

[The Learner]

1 John 1:8-10
New International Version
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, that's your opinion I guess
Paul wrote that after his conversion
He is clearly writing in the present, not the past
That's why he says
"wretched man that I am"
Not was, not past tense.
Clearly present tense.
His writing about his personal struggle with sin after his conversion

Context means "keep reading." Who is Paul speaking of in Romans 8:2? It means He's received Christ and the Spirit has freed him of both sin and the law. In other words, Romans 8 has freed Paul of Romans 8:14-25 where you are quoting from. The reason you are messing up the interpretation is simple and widespread. You are reading with a western mindset. Paul as well as John who uses we in his epistle are both writing in an eastern style. I spelled it out for you that Romans 7 shows three time periods. Before the Law, After the Law, and During the Law. You really can't discern that for yourself? I know many denominations who haven't seemed to be able to read either. Its a pandamnic. And no, I didn't misspell what I meant.

 

[Taken]

After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

The born again, can not Sin again.

[QUOTE[Do you think you become a perfect person that will never make a mistake?
[/QUOTE]

To become MADE born again…
Your body, is MADE Accounted DEAD.
Then the soul is MADE Accounted Restored.
AND
The spirit is MADE Accounted Born Again.
AND “IF” still mortally Alive…
Your Spiritual Reborn spirit, Lives IN Christs Risen Body… until your own body is Redeemed.

No, a man IN Christ, does not, can not sin…
Because the Power of God Dwells IN that man.

And it is “THAT Power” within such man, which maintains and keeps that man Faithful to God.

Can such a man, still use his limited “brain / mind” and make poor decisions, mistakes?
Sure.

Being soul restored and spirit born again…
Does not “change the body, it’s organs, mind”.
The body, will still age, face potential diseases.
The mind is still limited ( not all knowing ), and still make choices, decisions based on its own reasonable relative known information.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

1 John 1:8-10
New International Version
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

That verse APPLIES to exactly what it says…
A man claiming TO HAVE NO SIN…

All men are conceived and born IN Sin.
All men have committed Sin.
A man who asks for Forgiveness of his Sin, is Not the man in… 1 John 8-10.

No human man IS “Sinless”.
Many human men have become MADE Forgiven.
Their “Sin” did not “disappear”…
Their “Forgiven Sin” Became MADE “Covered” with Gods “INWELLING Light”…and Remembered no more.

A forgiven man…”IN Christ”… occupying Christ Jesus’ Body, is Accounted “Perfect-ED “ in Christs risen Body…
His own body is Accounted DEAD… not perfect, not sinless… until his own body is “Cleansed, Glorified and Risen perfect.”

Order and Way…according to Gods Order, Way, Timing.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Learner]

I think the context refers to someone who is born again that has sinned.
If I am wrong please explain I john 1

1 John 1

New International Version

​

The Incarnation of the Word of Life​

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness​

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Armour of God]

Context means "keep reading." Who is Paul speaking of in Romans 8:2? It means He's received Christ and the Spirit has freed him of both sin and the law. In other words, Romans 8 has freed Paul of Romans 8:14-25 where you are quoting from. The reason you are messing up the interpretation is simple and widespread. You are reading with a western mindset. Paul as well as John who uses we in his epistle are both writing in an eastern style. I spelled it out for you that Romans 7 shows three time periods. Before the Law, After the Law, and During the Law. You really can't discern that for yourself? I know many denominations who haven't seemed to be able to read either. Its a pandamnic. And no, I didn't misspell what I meant.

I disagree with that.

Considering you've had your own struggle with sin I would of thought you'd reconsider your opinion on this topic. But you are not interested in doing that.

How then do you explain the struggle with sin that many Christians experience, including yours and mine?
Mine sins are thoughts of envy and lust, unwilling sins as i cant control what pops into my mind. How do you explain that?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think the context refers to someone who is born again that has sinned.​

If I am wrong please explain I john 1​

​

1 John 1​

​

New International Version​

​

​

The Incarnation of the Word of Life​

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness​

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

We westerners read the New Testament with a western mindset. But the apostles were Middle Eastern and wrote with an eastern mindset, thus the various Semitic writing styles.

1 John shows one of those styles Semitic writing style of synonymous parallels of contrasts. By the way, don't get thrown by their use of personal present pronouns of "we" used by Greeks and understood best by the western mindset. This is NOT that.

Starting with verse 5 and ending with 10. Haven't you ever wondered why verse 9 separates 8 and 10 which say close to the same thing? This is why. Verse 9 is in contrast to both 8 and 10. Light vs. Darkness.

5 God is light
6 walk in darkness
7 Walk in light
8 lying (a sinner saying they never sin)
9 Repentance
10 lying (never sinned his entire life)

Check out 1 John 2:4 for clarity about 1 John 1:8 and 10.
Verses 6, 8 and 10 are NOT Christians. Only 7 is the life of a Christian where sins NOT unto death keep being cleansed as we walk in the Light, but unintentionally still commit trespasses (unintentional sins of imperfection from immature fruit).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I disagree with that.

Considering you've had your own struggle with sin I would of thought you'd reconsider your opinion on this topic. But you are not interested in doing that.

How then do you explain the struggle with sin that many Christians experience, including yours and mine?
Mine sins are thoughts of envy and lust, unwilling sins as i cant control what pops into my mind. How do you explain that?

It was not an intentional sin of pleasure.

AoG do you know there are 2 types of sin, or have you been taught the heresy of "sin is sin." If you have you won't understand that for 3,500 years God sees two types. BTW why did you disagree that Romans 8:2 frees us from Romans 7:14-25? Also, do you believe we are under the Law of Moses like 14-25? Do you belong to a denomination?

 

[Armour of God]

It was not an intentional sin of pleasure.

AoG do you know there are 2 types of sin, or have you been taught the heresy of "sin is sin." If you have you won't understand that for 3,500 years God sees two types. BTW why did you disagree that Romans 8:2 frees us from Romans 7:14-25? Also, do you believe we are under the Law of Moses like 14-25? Do you belong to a denomination?

Where you resort to calling other people's views heresy, I just see differences in opinions and interpretations

 

[Armour of God]

The born again, can not Sin again.

[QUOTE[Do you think you become a perfect person that will never make a mistake?

In Romans 7 Paul admits he struggles with sin

Most Christians admit they sin, usually unwillingly but sometimes even willingly.

I sin sometimes with thoughts of lust and envy. I don't choose to have these thoughts, they just jump into my mind.

Does that mean that Paul, myself and those other Christians are not born again?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Where you resort to calling other people's views heresy, I just see differences in opinions and interpretations

It is heresy when the clear misinterpretation causes absolute doctrines of demons that can send a person to hell. I see you couldn't follow the three historical eras in Romans 7 as you still think Paul had problems with sin. If you can read English, you can find out for yourself, but you would rather a false teacher teach you and just take his word as truth when it is not. Paul wasn't under the law. His experience was Romans 7:5-6, whereas his time as a Pharisee before he met Christ was verses 14-25. If you relate to 14-25 then you should take note of the words of Jesus that "you must be born again." Romans 8 is when he finally was born again and it freed him from sin and "the flesh." When I was first cleansed of sin from my nature I literally felt a heaviness leave my body. I was freed from sin. That is why having to lie to save my privacy affected me so much. Especially since he kept asking me four times. What a monster.

 

[Armour of God]

It is heresy when the clear misinterpretation causes absolute doctrines of demons that can send a person to hell. I see you couldn't follow the three historical eras in Romans 7 as you still think Paul had problems with sin. If you can read English, you can find out for yourself, but you would rather a false teacher teach you and just take his word as truth when it is not. Paul wasn't under the law. His experience was Romans 7:5-6, whereas his time as a Pharisee before he met Christ was verses 14-25. If you relate to 14-25 then you should take note of the words of Jesus that "you must be born again." Romans 8 is when he finally was born again and it freed him from sin and "the flesh." When I was first cleansed of sin from my nature I literally felt a heaviness leave my body. I was freed from sin. That is why having to lie to save my privacy affected me so much. Especially since he kept asking me four times. What a monster.

Doctrines of demons... Geez. Whatever.
This will be my final post to you.

You call people who disagree with you heretics that follow doctrines of demons. And many people who disagree with you would call you a heretic (not me).
Where does that leave you?
Two Christians who disagree and are pointing fingers at each other, calling one another a heretic. Thats no good. It's a form of personal attack that gets you no where.

I prefer to accept the fact that different people have different opinions, interpretations and perspectives rather than slandering them with such terms.

An overwhelming majority of Christians disagree with you on this and you choose to align us all with demons and say we are going to hell. I certainly don't think any Christian is going to hell for misunderstanding a piece of theology. I think faith in Christ is the most important thing

You thought you were free from ever sinning yet you caught yourself intentionally sinning. You proved your belief to be wrong. Stop deceiving yourself.

We have different opinions on this matter. Difference is that you view me as a satanic heretic that's going to hell whereas I still view you as a sister in Christ.

All the best with your personal struggle
Much love and God bless

 

[PeterAndroz]

It is heresy when the clear misinterpretation causes absolute doctrines of demons that can send a person to hell. I see you couldn't follow the three historical eras in Romans 7 as you still think Paul had problems with sin. If you can read English, you can find out for yourself, but you would rather a false teacher teach you and just take his word as truth when it is not. Paul wasn't under the law. His experience was Romans 7:5-6, whereas his time as a Pharisee before he met Christ was verses 14-25. If you relate to 14-25 then you should take note of the words of Jesus that "you must be born again." Romans 8 is when he finally was born again and it freed him from sin and "the flesh." When I was first cleansed of sin from my nature I literally felt a heaviness leave my body. I was freed from sin. That is why having to lie to save my privacy affected me so much. Especially since he kept asking me four times. What a monster.

 

[Hepzibah]

The problem is, I believe, that 'born again' is not what happens when we respond to the gospel. We have an encounter with the living Christ and our eyes are opened.

But we are not a new creation yet because we still sin.

Sin is the big problem and why A&E were kicked out. If we still sin, how can that solve the problem? We are given the ability to become sons of God but are not there yet, and this is the basis of the theology of a huge part of the church which unfortunately is right out of fashion in our times.

All of the great Christians are from the past especially the earth movers.

What stops folk going on to perfection? Unbelief. It is just impossible to imagine what life would be like if we had a pure heart, from whence cometh sin. But Jesus is supposed to give us a pure heart and a renewed mind.

We need to go back in time to find answers. Satan is winning at the moment.

There have been questions on this thread regarding who claims to be sinless. Nobody is the answer, but there are a few who claim to have reached this state in the past. The early church who had some in this state called it Theosis. In later times it has been called entire sanctification.

Yes there are verses that seem to say sinlessness is impossible but they are taken out of context and each verse has an explanation putting them into context. Each one has to be dealt with when there is a genuine revival of this doctrine.

I will answer questions if they are put forward without meaness or nastiness. Yes I have been in that state and now am not even though I long to be back there. There are no words to describe it. It seems that there is some blocking of it which God is allowing but I believe the tide is turning.

 

[Taken]

In Romans 7 Paul admits he struggles with sin

Most Christians admit they sin, usually unwillingly but sometimes even willingly.

I sin sometimes with thoughts of lust and envy. I don't choose to have these thoughts, they just jump into my mind.

Does that mean that Paul, myself and those other Christians are not born again?

The struggle Paul had…was he could do nothing about “his body” having been born in sin… and was not “glorified”.

Rom 7:
[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

You struggle also with your “mind”, that has thoughts appear you do not like.

Those are not “Commissions” of sin.

Most Christians Admit…”they (intentionally , knowingly) Commit sin”?
I could not say that is so.

I believe “every” human is a sinner…
I believe God “Forgives”, ( some mens ) sin…
Of being naturally born (IN sin.), unbelief.
Of having NOT believed, and (then does believe.)

Big picture…
Sin IS Against God.
Sin Against God IS “UN-Belief”.
Only God Forgives Sin.
Forgiven Sin, IS For HAVING “HAD” Unbelief.

True… man still “sees” his body of “sin”, and Carry’s that Knowledge.

True… God does NOT “change” a mans “ever thinking, ciphering, silly to mean thoughts MIND”.

True… Mens MINDFUL thoughts, Can and Do, lead some men to “ACT” on those Mindful thoughts … and intentionally… lie, trick, fool, cheat, steal, TO other men…
Sins? No
Trespasses against men? Yes
Men can Forgive Trespasses? Yes

The struggle, of a man, IS to “control his OWN MINDS Thoughts.”
To NOT ACT…on devious plots, schemes, his own Mind conjures up, to cause harm, hurt toward another human.

That IS an Ongoing lifelong “practice”…to oppress, reject, such Thoughts…
Called working toward the goal…
To have a MIND …”like Christ”.

In conclusion…
Men can “Remember, dwell on having HAD the Sin of Unbelief Against God…
However, a Man God has Forgiven for having HAD unbelief… God Himself Remembers “no more” that mans “prior unbelief”.

That mans “forgiven Sin” is “covered”, with Gods “Spirit, Power, Pure Light”, and the “darkness of that prior, forgiven Sin, no longer visible”… or Remembered.

The big picture IS “Spiritual”…”unseen”…regarding the “transformation” of a “Natural man Against God”… to a “Natural mans Desire, free-willingness, to Accept Gods Offering, to BE MADE, wholly (body, soul, spirit) Acceptable to HAVE a Forever One on one Relationship WITH God.

The Order, the Way, Method, Timing is According to Gods Protocol.

Many are called…
Many will “try” (taste)…spit it out.
Few will “commit” (eat)…
Few will obtain Becoming “yoked” with God Forever.
Few HAVE obtained Becoming “Yoked” with God Forever.

Men who “struggle” with their “bodies still carrying its “natural sin”… and “mindful thoughts” they can not stop…

Need to… Stop focusing on their Body, God Already, has Covered and Cleansed.
And Continue to Oppressing, rejecting their own Minds “devious” thoughts.

We have … IN this World…Umpteen “clinical Names and synthetic compound manufactured drugs”… to “supposedly MASK / Bandaid” Devious thoughts of THE MIND…
When, it is a spiritual warfare between the persons Own Hearts Thoughts and Minds Thoughts …
That ONLY the Power of Great Spiritual Physician can Heal.


Mark 5:
[26] And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

Luke 8:
[43] And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Matt 9:
[12] But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Soul restored, spirit Quickened (saved and born again) ARE already accounted WHOLE, In God Books of Records/Evidence.

Matt 6: 25-34…

If you “ARE Yoked” with God…
Do Not concern yourself with WORRIES of This World.
If you “ARE Yoked” with God…
You are no longer “OF this World.”

Does that mean that Paul, myself and those other Christians are not born again?

The Truth IS, only the individual and God knows Which individuals have Heartfully Surrendered their own Life unto God.

1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Glory to God,
Taken