Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

I am just pointing out that you don't have true discerment...just carnal judgments

You're entitled to an opinion. But you are still not addressing the point I was making.

I am not sure you really understand the gospel.

I understand that it is by faith, and that Epi undermines or destroys faith with how he is teaching.

Obviously, you have no idea what I believe. To declare me as "loosey goosey" or of a "new agey mindset" shows your ignorance of that. (I find that amusing) You present a contractionary position. You claim to laud humility but your errant and unlearned judgements fail to demonstrate it.

Your post came across as loosey goosey. Don't know how else to describe it. It wasn't meant as an insult, just trying to convey a description of my impression of what you were saying.

Do you think it is errant and unlearned to have faith in Jesus and what He accomplished on the cross on my behalf?

True discernment from the Spirit IS exact. The problem is that you confuse your carnal superficial judgements as "discernment". You are correct when you say that is not exact.

It's exact when it is correct, but even then we may not be seeing the entire picture. Discernment is something we learn and grow in. It is possible to be mistaken as you are even saying I am.

Humility admits it's lack of full knowledge and leaves the judgement to the Lord. We can stand on this hope (if you will hear it)

Heb 6:19
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

What kind of judgment are you talking about? Condemnation, or the righteous judgement we are to judge with?

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you claim to be always walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the righteousness of the law?

No I make no such claim........and am thankful that when I'm not, Jesus has fulfilled the Law for me.

 

[Episkopos]

That's good if you aren't. It seemed to me that is what people were objecting to. What is the point you are making then? Do you agree with Epi that not yet fully matured believers are on the same footing as Jews under the old covenant?

Where does that come from? Paul says that we are to fear that we too would be cut off just as the Israelites in the desert were. That's basic wisdom. What we give off is that you are superior to the Jews and could never be as foolish as they were...which is NOT a wise position.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you claim to be always walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the righteousness of the law?

From what she writes, Lizbeth considers herself to be halfway there. Half holy. As such she thinks others are half-right just like her.

 

[Episkopos]

Agree, but scripture ALSO also says we ARE in the Spirit if we HAVE the Spirit. That is the part that is being denied. All who believe (genuine faith not of our own) have the Spirit and therefore are in the Spirit to some degree.....and many do have spiritual experiences at various times if it isn't being quenched by false teachings, lack of growth, etc.. We are not under the Law if we have received Christ...we are in the new covenant. We are not on the same footing as unbelieving Jews under the Law.

You are comparing apples with airplanes here. The Jews had a physical promised land...and we have a spiritual one. Each in its kind. To whom much is given MORE is required. So then we are to enter into the kingdom realm as they were to enter a physical land.

What you do is try a direct comparison without taking into consideration of the equivalency based on God's fairness. He does NOT prefer Gentiles by making things harder for the Jews. We are not His favourites. Quite the opposite. We have proved that even with their example of what NOT to do...we have done the very same things.

So then we are worse off for not learning by their example. Only a remnant of them entered in. And only a remnant of us will enter in.

 

[shepherdsword]

You're entitled to an opinion. But you are still not addressing the point I was making.

Why does it need addressing by me?

I understand that it is by faith, and that Epi undermines or destroys faith with how he is teaching.

How does he undermine and destroy faith?

Your post came across as loosey goosey.

Then you fail at reading comprehension. That's not an insult, it's just an observation on how your perception is false.

Don't know how else to describe it. It wasn't meant as an insult, just trying to convey a description of my impression of what you were saying.

It seems to me that you are the one pushing easy believism.

Do you think it is errant and unlearned to have faith in Jesus and what He accomplished on the cross on my behalf?

Once again, you are either trying to pull a bait and switch or you are totally confused about what I said was errant. Your perception of me is errant and unlearned.

It's exact when it is correct, but even then we may not be seeing the entire picture. Discernment is something we learn and grow in. It is possible to be mistaken as you are even saying I am.

I know that your perception of me is false so I know it is coming from a carnal mind and not true discernment. However, think what you wish. I see no need to justify myself before you.

What kind of judgment are you talking about? Condemnation, or the righteous judgement we are to judge with?

Your opinion that you try to pass off as discernment. It's not righteous judgement.

 

[shepherdsword]

No I make no such claim........and am thankful that when I'm not, Jesus has fulfilled the Law for me.

Do you think it is possible for there to be a higher walk, in greater power, with greater love than you currently experience?

 

[MostlyConfused]

I understand that it is by faith, and that Epi undermines or destroys faith with how he is teaching.

No he doesn’t. He just threatens and undermines a false security. He has done nothing but HELP my faith.
This is failing to recognize the body.

 

[ProDeo]

I'm going to need to spend some quiet time with Lord on this. And I thought the "all flesh" had to do with meaning upon the Gentiles and not just the Jews....they were very sort of aware that the Lord had up to then been revealed to them and not the Gentiles. There is the also aspect of an early rain and latter rain....the glory of the latter house being greater than the former house etc. Speaking of the old and new covenants in that respect.

That is certainly a better explanation

 

[ProDeo]

Do you think it is possible for there to be a higher walk, in greater power, with greater love than you currently experience?

According to Paul there is.

1Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
1Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
1Cor 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
1Cor 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Did Paul elaborate elsewhere ?

Or did he explain in the next (famous) verses ?

 

[Episkopos]

I understand that it is by faith, and that Epi undermines or destroys faith with how he is teaching.

I am pointing out that it is faith that lays hold on grace...not religious beliefs. The problem is that you identify with religious beliefs that don't save anyone.

Do you think it is errant and unlearned to have faith in Jesus and what He accomplished on the cross on my behalf?

On behalf of the world. God decides who is redeemed and who is justified. We can't let an opinion rule the day.

It's exact when it is correct, but even then we may not be seeing the entire picture. Discernment is something we learn and grow in. It is possible to be mistaken as you are even saying I am.

I know...you're half right so everyone else is also.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you think it is possible for there to be a higher walk, in greater power, with greater love than you currently experience?

Yes. As I've had to remind people many times over the last four years of discussing on Epi's threads. I think of it as complete consecration/surrender.

Do you believe that Jesus has fulfilled the Law on our behalf for when or how we fall short while we are still running toward the goal but not attained it yet? I believe the new covenant graciously, generously and patiently allows for growth.

 

[Lizbeth]

Where does that come from? Paul says that we are to fear that we too would be cut off just as the Israelites in the desert were. That's basic wisdom. What we give off is that you are superior to the Jews and could never be as foolish as they were...which is NOT a wise position.

Good thing it's not my position then.

 

[Lizbeth]

To whom much is given MORE is required. So then we are to enter into the kingdom realm as they were to enter a physical land.

Sure, but according to you we haven't been given anything.

 

[Episkopos]

Sure, but according to you we haven't been given anything.

A sample of grace is something. Think of it as the first talent you receive from God to see what you do with it. Most take pride in it but do nothing with it to produce the desired intimacy by seeking God's face.

 

[ProDeo]

Where does that come from? Paul says that we are to fear that we too would be cut off just as the Israelites in the desert were. That's basic wisdom. What we give off is that you are superior to the Jews and could never be as foolish as they were...which is NOT a wise position.

I repeat my post #1201

Filipp 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

1Petr 4:18 And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

VERSUS

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1John 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1John 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Both are true.

But whereas Rom 8:38-39 and 1 John 4:16-19 are the base of the Gospel message the emphasis of yours is on Filipp 2:12 and 1Petr 4:18. Actually it's the only thing you talk about.

I don't think the good Lord wants people to live in terror 24/7 and hope for the best.

But that's the essence of your teachings.

FALSE.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Like he teaches, the first two verses are for the outer man, the flesh, the hairy Esau who God hates.
The second two verses are for the inner man, Jacob, who He loves.

He stresses both because we are both. He stresses what a brother needs to hear. And if a brother rejects the two less pleasant verses, they are the ones he needs to hear.

The flesh, at His hard words, wants to push Jesus off a cliff.

The Lamb must be eaten with bitter herbs.
The scroll is pleasant in the mouth and bitter in the belly.

 

[Episkopos]

Like he teaches, the first two verses are for the outer man, the flesh, the hairy Esau who God hates.
The second two verses are for the inner man, Jacob, who He loves.

He stresses both because we are both. He stresses what a brother needs to hear. And if a brother rejects the two less pleasant verses, they are the ones he needs to hear.

The flesh, at His hard words, wants to push Jesus off a cliff.

The Lamb must be eaten with bitter herbs.
The scroll is pleasant in the mouth and bitter in the belly.

Amen. But people want their carnal nature to survive. They identify with it as part of them.

Jesus goes hard on the Laodiceans telling them they have it all wrong....not half right. The purpose of the correction is not condemnation but instruction with the exhortation to "buy" from Him was is eternal in nature.

If they made no claim (to be rich) then there would be no need to correct them.
So we have a churchfull of people who make lofty claims but are unable to meet the conditions thereof.

Why is it so hard to learn that God gives grace to the HUMBLE....He resists the lofty claimers. The way up is down.

 

[Episkopos]

I know what I say can sound hard. I'm not trying to be mean. And I much prefer that we all get along...and even more than just get along. That we would realize we are members one of another. But I'm in the position I'm in by God's design..not my own. Not that I don't deeply appreciate the training I have received from the Lord. It's just that when I compare that with what people teach as doctrine...I almost despair. How can there be such a gap between what God teaches by the Spirit and what has become the common beliefs of so many?

Of course people will say that I just have religious opinions...as is common in the churches of today. And I don't know why God has singled me out for all He has shown me. It's a blessing from heaven...but a burden to carry because I care for souls. It's like I'm trying to reach out to another "me". How could I hear the truth if someone else was trying to tell me something that could change everything? Could I hear from God through another person? I hope so.

All we have to communicate with is the bible. But the bible is a very difficult book to understand..especially if we don't see the hierarchy of values...chief of which is humility. Faith is crucial...but one needs a righteous foundation of Godly fear.

God is selfless and to abide with Him eternally we need to want to be stripped of self....to have a sacrificial attitude in service of God and others.

Our defense mechanisms of self-preservation embedded in the flesh will resist that upward (downward for us) call most vehemently. One of the attributes of a saint is to not love one's life to the death. We need to surrender unconditionally to God. We shouldn't make any claim unless it stems from a victory over the flesh, the world and the devil. In Him is no sin.

Peace to all. <><

 

[Episkopos]

I repeat my post #1201

Filipp 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

1Petr 4:18 And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

VERSUS

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1John 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1John 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Both are true.

But whereas Rom 8:38-39 and 1 John 4:16-19 are the base of the Gospel message the emphasis of yours is on Filipp 2:12 and 1Petr 4:18. Actually it's the only thing you talk about.

I don't think the good Lord wants people to live in terror 24/7 and hope for the best.

But that's the essence of your teachings.

FALSE.

The hard words are to bring down the part that condemns us...the flesh. You have to consider where the desire for comfort is coming from in you. You have to police your own flesh. You have to speak lawfully or else you get a "ticket". And the rebuke of a friend is better than the embrace of an enemy. The Lord is hard on His loved ones because the part of us that we seek to defend so often needs to die. No one likes that. But that's the way of it.

It's like...Lord, if I don't have to drink this cup, this death...let it pass from me. Nevertheless Your will be done.

So if people would check their own flesh at the door...we could have a much more uplifting exchange. The flesh shouldn't be the elephant in the room that everybody just ignores. Light exposes darkness. We should aspire to be children of light...and receive correction eagerly in order to become such.