Hello everyone new member here

[Mancunian]

Hello
Nice to be here, I'm a 56 year old married gentleman with four grown up children (30) (28) (20) (18) I couldn't think of any names for them so I just gave them a number each...
(That was a joke btw)
I love animals and have a rough collie called Odin, he's four years old and is my profile picture.
I'm into sports and am a keen supporter of Manchester United. My wife and I work full time, I'm a caretaker and my wife is a midwife.
Anyway, that's it for now, I don't want to waffle on too much.

 

[Bob]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you have any particular expectations?

If you would, please tell us about why you are an atheist?

With much love.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I'm into sports and am a keen supporter of Manchester United. My wife and I work full time, I'm a caretaker and my wife is a midwife.

I enjoy sports as well ...I mostly follow college and a couple of professional sports teams (basketball and baseball).

Also, I love that your wife is a midwife. I had 4 home births. My midwife lived an hours away so she only made it in time to deliver one. Haha! (She arrived shortly after, no problems!)

Welcome to the forum. :)

 

[Mancunian]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you have any particular expectations?

If you would, please tell us about why you are an atheist?

With much love.

Hello Bob

I have no expectations but I'm hoping to make a few friends and learn from people with different views on life.


There are many religions and multiple denominations. Many gods have been worshiped, I take it that you only believe in one god and agree with me on the existence of all of the other gods?

I just don't believe in one more god than you.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[Mancunian]

I enjoy sports as well ...I mostly follow college and a couple of professional sports teams (basketball and baseball).

Also, I love that your wife is a midwife. I had 4 home births. My midwife lived an hours away so she only made it in time to deliver one. Haha! (She arrived shortly after, no problems!)

Welcome to the forum. :)

Thank you for the welcome and you're very brave to have 4 home births...

 

[Debp]

Hi, welcome.

 

[Bob]

Hello Bob

I have no expectations but I'm hoping to make a few friends and learn from people with different views on life.


There are many religions and multiple denominations. Many gods have been worshiped, I take it that you only believe in one god and agree with me on the existence of all of the other gods?

I just don't believe in one more god than you.

Thanks for the welcome.

Thank you for the response.

The following question stems from a podcast by Dennis Prager, and perhaps you will find it intriguing.

As background: atheists believe that when the physical body dies, so does the person’s mind (soul, spirit). Christians believe that upon our physical death, our soul becomes one with God and (among other bless events) we are spiritually reunited with loved ones that pre-decreased us). (Ok, there are also Christians that have a different view of life after death.)

So, the question to you is: as atheist, do you hope you are right, or do you hope you are wrong (Christians are correct)?

Peace.

 

[Mancunian]

Thank you for the response.

The following question stems from a podcast by Dennis Prager, and perhaps you will find it intriguing.

As background: atheists believe that when the physical body dies, so does the person’s mind (soul, spirit). Christians believe that upon our physical death, our soul becomes one with God and (among other bless events) we are spiritually reunited with loved ones that pre-decreased us). (Ok, there are also Christians that have a different view of life after death.)

So, the question to you is: as atheist, do you hope you are right, or do you hope you are wrong (Christians are correct)?

Peace.

Good question.

In a perfect world I would like for us both to be right but with caveats, let me explain...

If you desire to be reunited with loved ones and be at one with your god for eternity that's fine by me and I would be happy for you providing that I as a none believer get to rest in peace after my death.
I don't know what you believe happens to atheists upon death, but I know that some believe that I'm destined to be in torment for eternity after death.

I desire to become a part of the universe after death, my life is here and now and knowing that my life is finite makes me grateful for every day that I spend on the planet.


I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

 

[ScottA]

Hello
Nice to be here, I'm a 56 year old married gentleman with four grown up children (30) (28) (20) (18) I couldn't think of any names for them so I just gave them a number each...
(That was a joke btw)
I love animals and have a rough collie called Odin, he's four years old and is my profile picture.
I'm into sports and am a keen supporter of Manchester United. My wife and I work full time, I'm a caretaker and my wife is a midwife.
Anyway, that's it for now, I don't want to waffle on too much.

Welcome Man'!

 

[Bob]

Good question.

In a perfect world I would like for us both to be right but with caveats, let me explain...

If you desire to be reunited with loved ones and be at one with your god for eternity that's fine by me and I would be happy for you providing that I as a none believer get to rest in peace after my death.
I don't know what you believe happens to atheists upon death, but I know that some believe that I'm destined to be in torment for eternity after death.

I desire to become a part of the universe after death, my life is here and now and knowing that my life is finite makes me grateful for every day that I spend on the planet.


I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

Thank you for taking time to reply.

It sounds like you are hoping for oblivion, but if there is a God, perhaps you hope He will take into account the good intentions you strive for.

The next question is about morality (and its origins).
Christians (and many of the world’s religions) would consider the ideal community to have the following attributes:
* no violence (no bullying, no coercion)
* personal responsibility to help those who have difficulty caring for themselves
* personal responsibility for actions that inadvertently hurt others
* forgiving of others who harm you
* humility and thankfulness (includes giving credit to others when due)
* embracing lifelong, monogamous marriages as the foundation for the community
* preserving the community culture by taking action against a moral rebel (“shape up or ship out”)

Would such a community be consistent with your ideal?

Blessings.

(P.S.: Out of respect for this forum, please write “God“ and not god when referring to the center of Judeo-Christian belief.)

 

[Grailhunter]

Good question.

In a perfect world I would like for us both to be right but with caveats, let me explain...

If you desire to be reunited with loved ones and be at one with your god for eternity that's fine by me and I would be happy for you providing that I as a none believer get to rest in peace after my death.
I don't know what you believe happens to atheists upon death, but I know that some believe that I'm destined to be in torment for eternity after death.

I desire to become a part of the universe after death, my life is here and now and knowing that my life is finite makes me grateful for every day that I spend on the planet.


I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

Well they say that it takes the greatest faith to be an atheist. To believe all this happened by chance or accident.
My profession in the military was Quantum Mechanics and Astrophysics. And I can tell you about the evolution of scientists. Back in the 60's they thought they had it sewed up....no God and they could track the progression of life and the universe. Then with better equipment they looked deeper into space and deeper into the atom and deeper into DNA.
Science is beginning to understand that it all is too complicated to happen by chance. DNA and those deeper structures have been studied for a while. More or less DNA is a biological computer program with trillions of connections and adaptations. They have to be right or it does not live. Absolutely too complicated to happen by accident, it had to be constructed.....by intelligence. Not only put together, but put together right to function and live.

Same goes for the universe.....if all things were left to chance.....the universe would look like a train wreck. If gravity was a little stronger, there would be no celestial bodies orbiting, they would collapse on themselves. If gravity was a little weaker, there would be no celestial bodies orbiting, just junk moving through space. No life.

The model....the atom looks like a sun with planets orbiting it. The solar system looks like an atom. The galaxies look like a solar system. The universe looks like galaxies.

And subatomic particles, don't even get me started, particles with character.

And there is no turning back, as we go along, things get more complicated.

On the religious side of the coin, there have been miracles that have been witnesses, sometimes thousands at the same event.

So atheism is not the choice to explain reality.

 

[Mancunian]

Thank you for taking time to reply.

It sounds like you are hoping for oblivion, but if there is a God, perhaps you hope He will take into account the good intentions you strive for.

The next question is about morality (and its origins).
Christians (and many of the world’s religions) would consider the ideal community to have the following attributes:
* no violence (no bullying, no coercion)
* personal responsibility to help those who have difficulty caring for themselves
* personal responsibility for actions that inadvertently hurt others
* forgiving of others who harm you
* humility and thankfulness (includes giving credit to others when due)
* embracing lifelong, monogamous marriages as the foundation for the community
* preserving the community culture by taking action against a moral rebel (“shape up or ship out”)

Would such a community be consistent with your ideal?

Blessings.

(P.S.: Out of respect for this forum, please write “God“ and not god when referring to the center of Judeo-Christian belief.)

I believe that morality is subjective.
I wouldn't agree with all of the above but I do see the value in a couple of your examples.

 

[Mancunian]

Well they say that it takes the greatest faith to be an atheist. To believe all this happened by chance or accident.
My profession in the military was Quantum Mechanics and Astrophysics. And I can tell you about the evolution of scientists. Back in the 60's they thought they had it sewed up....no God and they could track the progression of life and the universe. Then with better equipment they looked deeper into space and deeper into the atom and deeper into DNA.
Science is beginning to understand that it all is too complicated to happen by chance. DNA and those deeper structures have been studied for a while. More or less DNA is a biological computer program with trillions of connections and adaptations. They have to be right or it does not live. Absolutely too complicated to happen by accident, it had to be constructed.....by intelligence. Not only put together, but put together right to function and live.

Same goes for the universe.....if all things were left to chance.....the universe would look like a train wreck. If gravity was a little stronger, there would be no celestial bodies orbiting, they would collapse on themselves. If gravity was a little weaker, there would be no celestial bodies orbiting, just junk moving through space. No life.

The model....the atom looks like a sun with planets orbiting it. The solar system looks like an atom. The galaxies look like a solar system. The universe looks like galaxies.

And subatomic particles, don't even get me started, particles with character.

And there is no turning back, as we go along, things get more complicated.

On the religious side of the coin, there have been miracles that have been witnesses, sometimes thousands at the same event.

So atheism is not the choice to explain reality.

Atheism doesn't try to explain reality, it is simply the default position.
Every baby born is an atheist, they're shaped by the people around them.

Can I ask you where the creator/intelligent designer came from?

 

[Grailhunter]

Atheism doesn't try to explain reality, it is simply the default position.
Every baby born is an atheist, they're shaped by the people around them.

Can I ask you where the creator/intelligent designer came from?

Ya mean home town?
Not much of way we can know that.

 

[Mancunian]

Ya mean home town?
Not much of way we can know that.

If you're claiming that the universe was intelligently designed then you must have an opinion about the origins of the designer?

Do you have an opinion on why a designer would design a planet that is mostly uninhabitable with a star that causes cancer?

Is the suffering of animals a necessary design feature?

Do you accept that there are other planets out there that support life or do you think that we are alone in the universe?

 

[Grailhunter]

If you're claiming that the universe was intelligently designed then you must have an opinion about the origins of the designer?

I do have an opinion.....no way of knowing. Physical location-spiritual location. Heaven in general.

Do you have an opinion on why a designer would design a planet that is mostly uninhabitable with a star that causes cancer?

You do not like the way He made the planet?
A sun that causes cancer? Try praying and send in your complaints.
Put if you think the sun is bad, wait until you are roasting in Hell.

Suffering in the physical world is the price we pay for Adam and Eve's sin.

Do you accept that there are other planets out there that support life or do you think that we are alone in the universe?

With the number of planets out there, practically impossible that there is not life.

 

[Mancunian]

I do have an opinion.....no way of knowing. Physical location-spiritual location. Heaven in general.



You do not like the way He made the planet?
A sun that causes cancer? Try praying and send in your complaints.
Put if you think the sun is bad, wait until you are roasting in Hell.

Suffering in the physical world is the price we pay for Adam and Eve's sin.



With the number of planets out there, practically impossible that there is not life.

I always wondered whether Adam and Eve had navels?
Anyway thanks for the very warm welcome.

 

[Mancunian]

So is the general consensus here that I am going to burn in hell for my none belief?

I've lived a good life, raised four children and have been married for over 30 years. I've never knowingly hurt anybody.

If I am to roast in hell as another member put it, doesn't that seem a very severe punishment?

I'm also thinking about the concept of somebody who has lived a bad life, has hurt others, maybe in the worst possible way has the slate wiped clean through accepting Jesus. It seems like this justice system is kind of back to front to me.

 

[Bob]

I believe that morality is subjective.
I wouldn't agree with all of the above but I do see the value in a couple of your examples.

Thanks for continuing to engage. You have raised a number of additional questions in the replies to others, and they are all worth discussion.

The problem with “morality is subjective” is that when we encounter cultures who reject what is traditionally called Western Civilization, then we find ourselves in a society which becomes increasingly authoritarian and “might makes right.” Great thinkers like Hume and Locke rejected that concept and promoted rule by a government that was to be a servant of the people. “Might FOR right” replaces Might Makes Right.

We might differ on whether helping the helpless is a personal responsibility or a collective responsibility, but surely we agree that a (traditional) marriage-based society in which “do no intentional harm” is a shared precept.

Let me know where we still might disagree.

As for “who created God,” that invites an infinite regression of no value. God can be envisioned as an eternal, transcendental cosmic mind, outside of space and time. The idea of a random universe that created itself runs into the realization (late 20th century and 21st) that on every level, the universe is manifestly designed, as is life itself.

We can explore that more if you would like, as well as other topics.

Peace!

 

[Grailhunter]

It seems like this justice system is kind of back to front to me.

You got it. Have you ever heard the expression---Its all about who you know.
Yes, Hell awaits the unbeliever.
I wonder if Hell has a complaint form or a suggestion box.
Tell them to pack the ear plugs and barbeque sauce in the casket, you'll need them.

Like I said, atheism takes the greatest faith.
Logically I recommend Christianity, if I am right, you go an eternal reward, if I am wrong, you will not exist to know the difference.
Either way you have time to look into it. Read the Bible, look into the science of it. Science and archeology are proving the truths of the Bible all the time.