Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That is not what I said....I said....>The spiritual is wonderful and real.
You bring up some real spiritual realities and we can talk about them.
They knew the Farther because they didn’t reject Jesus. They had faith in a future messiah and saviour
Well, I would say the Jews are attempting to worship God in a manner that God doesn’t recognize as true worship. So they are really worshiping their unbelief of Jesus as the Messiah.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ancient Israel only exist in your mind.
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Romans 4:1-4
This is the physical and spiritual nature of ancient Israel.
Ancient Israel does not serve as a model in function or spirit for Christianity.
I still think there is a dark side to this obsession with Israel.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I know what the Bible says in John 4:23 about worshipping. Do you think the modern Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah? Do you know the minds of the modern Jews?
It appears as if you’re making the case for a modern spiritual Jew who worships God, meaning a Jew who is one inwardly not outwardly.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Stating facts. Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews have been worshipping Yahweh for centuries.
I have already said they missed the boat.
I am not making a case or justifying what they believe.
Sure, but doesn’t John 4:23 declare that at that time the acceptable way to worship changed to worshiping in spirit and truth only and no other form of worship was acceptable after that time?
Not true! Ancient or modern Jews who reject Christ do not worship Yahweh. They are off their father the devil.
So, this fold of Jesus is ethnic and Christ-rejecting? Really? That is what we have been brought into? Wow!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Who say they do not worship Yahweh in spirit the truth.
Judaism and Christianity are two different religions.
The Jews worship Yahweh
The Christians worship Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
• Jesus accused Christ-rejecting Israel of being of their “father the devil” (John 8:44).
• He said they were of “the synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9, 3:9).
• Paul the Apostle said they are enemies of God (Romans 11:28).
• John said that those who reject Christ as Messiah are of “antichrist” (I John 2:22-23 ) and are under “the wrath of God” (John 3:36).
How can you have Christ-hating Jews in Christ's flock? Your position is becoming more absurd by the moment. You are all over the place. One post is taking the next out.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? They reject Jesus Christ (man's only Savior), therefore, they reject Yahweh. Christ-rejecting Jews are therefore under condemnation and are of their father the devil.
John the Baptist proclaimed in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
There is nothing vague, ambiguous or complicated here. God only sees those in Christ and those not in Christ. There is also no room for fence-sitting here. If a Jew or Gentile (in the Old Testament or the New Testament) loves the Messiah Christ He is one of God's chosen, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!! Basically: accept Jesus and God accepts you, reject Him and God rejects you.
Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
Ok, what does this mean? Simple: those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ, don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are therefore under condemnation and are of their father the devil.
I John 2:22-23 solemnly asks, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
Q. Does Israel overwhelmingly deny “that Jesus is the Christ” or Messiah?
A. Absolutely. Therefore, Judaism without Christ is a counterfeit religion. It is apostate! Any belief that denies Christ His rightful place as man's sole Redeemer is destined for destruction. Anyone that rejects Christ (1) is antichrist, (2) belongs to Satan, (3) is part of the kingdom of darkness and is (4) bound for the Lake of Fire.
1 John 5:12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”
The teaching of Scripture couldn’t be plainer: Jews who do recognize Christ as Messiah are saved. Jews who do not recognize Christ as Messiah are lost. The only chosen people that God knows and accepts are those that accept His Son. The rest are of their father the devil.
2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”
If a sinner refuses Christ, he refuses the Father. This couldn’t be clearer in Scripture.
Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”
So, those that reject Jesus, reject salvation. Those that reject Jesus, reject the Father. Those that reject Jesus, are children of the devil. This is seen throughout the inspired New Testament account.
Jesus said in Matthew 11:6: “blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”
We don’t need to speculate about what natural Israel currently thinks of Christ.
Jesus said in Matthew 12:30, “He that is not with me is against me.”
There is no neutrality with this Jesus. There is no room for fence-sitting when it comes to Him. You are either for Him or against Him.
Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”
God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. In fact, there is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid and runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!
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