Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[jeffweeder]

Isiaih 7 is taken out of context. Taken out of a story of testing the faith of a king and virgin in this case mean woman that has not had a baby yet. And the lady referenced is Isiaih's wife and it says he "approached" her.
The child born is Isiaih son.

Matthew disagrees with you,

Matt 1
“Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a Son, and you shall name Him Jesus (The Lord is salvation), for He will save His people from their sins.” 22 All this happened in order to fulfill what the Lord had spoken through the prophet [Isaiah]: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and give birth to a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel”—which, when translated, means, “God with us.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Matthew disagrees with you,

Matt 1
“Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a Son, and you shall name Him Jesus (The Lord is salvation), for He will save His people from their sins.” 22 All this happened in order to fulfill what the Lord had spoken through the prophet [Isaiah]: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and give birth to a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel”—which, when translated, means, “God with us.”

The Gospels tell the story of the God Messiah......written several years after the fact. Yeap they knew He was God.
The storyline is still the storyline in Isaiah as it is written, John picked this out of the middle of the story. Why? They were Jewish-Christians and they were desperate to find Old Testament connections even if it was a one liner taken out of context. The specifics of Yeshua ministry does not show up in Old Testament prophecy.

Again if the Old Testament Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed that that the Messiah would be a God....the Son of God, it would have filled the prophetic books. What would be more incredible and important. They would be dancing in the streets and shouting from the mountain tops.....And when He did show up there would be more dancing in the streets. But no dancing in the streets, instead most rejected Him. Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our children!

 

[covenantee]

The Gospels tell the story of the God Messiah......written several years after the fact. Yeap they knew He was God.
The storyline is still the storyline in Isaiah as it is written, John picked this out of the middle of the story. Why? They were Jewish-Christians and they were desperate to find Old Testament connections even if it was a one liner taken out of context. The specifics of Yeshua ministry does not show up in Old Testament prophecy.

Again if the Old Testament Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed that that the Messiah would be a God....the Son of God, it would have filled the prophetic books. What would be more incredible and important. They would be dancing in the streets and shouting from the mountain tops.....And when He did show up there would be more dancing in the streets. But no dancing in the streets, instead most rejected Him. Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our children!

The Inspired Word isn't out of context.

You are.

More heresy.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Inspired Word isn't out of context.

You are.

More heresy.

For many, prophecies of the Messiah are important. So over the centuries Christians have combed through the Old Testament scriptures for prophecies of the Messiah. Most of the time all they were going to find were one liners that were imbedded in stories. So they took one liners and used them out of context as prophecies of the Messiah.

It would be great if they could find something like this……
And the Messiah will come and He will be the Son of God, His name will be Yeshua and he will be born of a woman. He will preach a Gospel of love, forgiveness and salvation. He will save those who believe in Him from Hell and open the gates to Heaven to those that believe in Him. But the Jews will reject the Messiah and will have Him crucified and He will resurrect 39 hours later and will ascend to Yahweh and take His seat to the right of His Father.
But they could find anything like this because it is not there.

Prophecies are important to modern Christians, but for the 1st century Jewish-Christians it was paramount. They were trying to convert Jews and needed to show a connection to the Old Testament prophecies. So they did the same thing that modern Christians do and combed through the Old Testament scriptures for something that would prophecy anything about what Yeshua was and how His ministry went.

The Apostles quoted many of the familiar verses that are known, but most were one liners plucked out of context. They were not being dishonest and may have believed that they pertained to Yeshua.

Today Christians do not need prophecies to prove Yeshua because there are numerous historical references to Him. As well as a continuous line of writings from the 1st century.

And yes the scriptures were inspired, but there was also the human element. The world is not flat and its a lot older than 6,000 years.

 

[covenantee]

For many, prophecies of the Messiah are important. So over the centuries Christians have combed through the Old Testament scriptures for prophecies of the Messiah. Most of the time all they were going to find were one liners that were imbedded in stories. So they took one liners and used them out of context as prophecies of the Messiah.

It would be great if they could find something like this……
And the Messiah will come and He will be the Son of God, His name will be Yeshua and he will be born of a woman. He will preach a Gospel of love, forgiveness and salvation. He will save those who believe in Him from Hell and open the gates to Heaven to those that believe in Him. But the Jews will reject the Messiah and will have Him crucified and He will resurrect 39 hours later and will ascend to Yahweh and take His seat to the right of His Father.
But they could find anything like this because it is not there.

Prophecies are important to modern Christians, but for the 1st century Jewish-Christians it was paramount. They were trying to convert Jews and needed to show a connection to the Old Testament prophecies. So they did the same thing that modern Christians do and combed through the Old Testament scriptures for something that would prophecy anything about what Yeshua was and how His ministry went.

The Apostles quoted many of the familiar verses that are known, but most were one liners plucked out of context. They were not being dishonest and may have believed that they pertained to Yeshua.

Today Christians do not need prophecies to prove Yeshua because there are numerous historical references to Him. As well as a continuous line of writings from the 1st century.

And yes the scriptures were inspired, but there was also the human element. The world is not flat and its a lot older than 6,000 years.

What are the five colleges which you claim to have attended?

 

[Grailhunter]

What are the five colleges which you claim to have attended?

Five countries, eight colleges, some were courses and or seminars.
That is a long story.....And it will sound like bragging.....
Chistian Brothers preparatory college, Canyon University, American University, courses at Hebrew University, Oxford and Cambridge, University of Edinburgh, University of Glasgow

 

[WPM]

Five countries, eight colleges, some were courses and or seminars.
That is a long story.....And it will sound like bragging.....
Chistian Brothers preparatory college, Canyon University, American University, courses at Hebrew University, Oxford and Cambridge, University of Edinburgh, University of Glasgow

And this is what they produced! Shocking!

 

[Grailhunter]

And this is what they produced! Shocking!

LOL
I would return the insult, but it is not worth it.

 

[covenantee]

Five countries, eight colleges, some were courses and or seminars.
That is a long story.....And it will sound like bragging.....
Chistian Brothers preparatory college, Canyon University, American University, courses at Hebrew University, Oxford and Cambridge, University of Edinburgh, University of Glasgow

Provide us with with links to some of your teachers who taught that "The Apostles quoted many of the familiar verses that are known, but most were one liners plucked out of context."

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. The Apostles
Hint?

 

[Grailhunter]

Provide us with with links to some of your teachers who taught that "The Apostles quoted many of the familiar verses that are known, but most were one liners plucked out of context."

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. The Apostles
Hint?

Link to my teachers? Professors Aah. Ya that won't be happening.
No reason to believe me, read the chapters around where these one liners are at.
On the other hand, no harm no foul if you do not believe me.
Bible study requires an in depth knowledge of the scriptures, the spirit of the scriptures and the overall meaning. And knowledge of the languages, and circumstances in each time period and a little science would not hurt.....that way you know the earth is not flat.
For example, the scripture says you have to hate your mother and father to be His disciple and it is in contest. But because of the overall meaning and spirit of the scriptures....you should know that is not true. Even if it was from Yeshua's lips.

 

[covenantee]

Link to my teachers? Professors Aah. Ya that won't be happening.
No reason to believe me, read the chapters around where these one liners are at.
On the other hand, no harm no foul if you do not believe me.
Bible study requires an in depth knowledge of the scriptures, the spirit of the scriptures and the overall meaning. And knowledge of the languages, and circumstances in each time period and a little science would not hurt.....that way you know the earth is not flat.
For example, the scripture says you have to hate your mother and father to be His disciple and it is in contest. But because of the overall meaning and spirit of the scriptures....you should know that is not true. Even if it was from Yeshua's lips.

So none of your teachers shared your views?

 

[Grailhunter]

So none of your teachers shared your views?

On prophecies? Ya.
Like I said, it is pretty simple, all you have to do is look at the scriptures around them and understand the story line. Sometimes you have to put your thinking cap on. The scripture told them that Elijah would arrive and announce the Messiah. That why is people were asking about Elijah.

How the Messiah Was Supposed to Arrive in Jewish Tradition​

In traditional Jewish belief, the Messiah (Hebrew: Moshiach or Melech HaMoshiach, “the Anointed King”) was not expected to arrive suddenly or miraculously, but rather as a dynamic, righteous Jewish leader from the Davidic line, anointed with holy oil, who would lead Israel to redemption
Elijah was taken in a fiery chariot and they figured that would be how he would arrive to announce the Messiah.

Key Conditions for His Arrival​

Rabbinic and prophetic literature outlines several conditions and signs that would precede or accompany the Messiah’s coming:

• Elijah’s Role: Many traditions hold that the prophet Elijah would appear first, often on the eve of Passover, to announce the Messiah’s arrival
• Timing: Some rabbis believed the Messiah would not come on the Sabbath, as that would require violating the Sabbath in welcoming him
• Preceding Events: The era before the Messiah would be marked by increasing arrogance, corruption, poverty, and moral decline, with Torah study in decline and religious despair.
• Catastrophic Events: The Messiah’s arrival would follow or coincide with divine judgment against enemies like Gog and Magog, and other calamities. (The Terrible Day of the Lord.)

The Messiah’s Role and Actions​

According to Maimonides’ 13 Principles of Faith, the Messiah would:

• Rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
• Gather Jews from exile and restore the Land of Israel.
• Re-establish the Sanhedrin (religious courts) and Torah study.
• End sin, heresy, and wickedness, bringing universal peace and justice

The Messianic Age​

The Messiah’s reign would usher in the Messianic Age — a time of global peace, no more wars or famine, and a world where all nations worship one God This era would be spiritually elevated, with humanity living in harmony and fulfilling God’s purpose of making His presence known in the world.

 

[covenantee]

On prophecies? Ya.
Like I said, it is pretty simple, all you have to do is look at the scriptures around them and understand the story line. Sometimes you have to put your thinking cap on. The scripture told them that Elijah would arrive and announce the Messiah. That why is people were asking about Elijah.

How the Messiah Was Supposed to Arrive in Jewish Tradition​

In traditional Jewish belief, the Messiah (Hebrew: Moshiach or Melech HaMoshiach, “the Anointed King”) was not expected to arrive suddenly or miraculously, but rather as a dynamic, righteous Jewish leader from the Davidic line, anointed with holy oil, who would lead Israel to redemption
Elijah was taken in a fiery chariot and they figured that would be how he would arrive to announce the Messiah.

Key Conditions for His Arrival​

Rabbinic and prophetic literature outlines several conditions and signs that would precede or accompany the Messiah’s coming:

• Elijah’s Role: Many traditions hold that the prophet Elijah would appear first, often on the eve of Passover, to announce the Messiah’s arrival
• Timing: Some rabbis believed the Messiah would not come on the Sabbath, as that would require violating the Sabbath in welcoming him
• Preceding Events: The era before the Messiah would be marked by increasing arrogance, corruption, poverty, and moral decline, with Torah study in decline and religious despair.
• Catastrophic Events: The Messiah’s arrival would follow or coincide with divine judgment against enemies like Gog and Magog, and other calamities. (The Terrible Day of the Lord.)

The Messiah’s Role and Actions​

According to Maimonides’ 13 Principles of Faith, the Messiah would:

• Rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
• Gather Jews from exile and restore the Land of Israel.
• Re-establish the Sanhedrin (religious courts) and Torah study.
• End sin, heresy, and wickedness, bringing universal peace and justice

The Messianic Age​

The Messiah’s reign would usher in the Messianic Age — a time of global peace, no more wars or famine, and a world where all nations worship one God This era would be spiritually elevated, with humanity living in harmony and fulfilling God’s purpose of making His presence known in the world.

Do you have any of their publications confirming their agreement with you?

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you have any of their publications confirming their agreement with you?

Do I have college books? Sure.
Here is the deal, when people take a scripture out of context, that is called cherry picking. People do it a lot in the New Testament when they have a belief that is really not in the scriptures. Instead of learning from the Bible they try to impose their beliefs on the scriptures. So they go to the Bible looking for one liners or vague scriptures to interpret their beliefs and try to fool others with them.

If you notice, the scriptures I quote are in context with the other scriptures. Learn from the Bible.

I realize that you think that you are defending the Bible. Valiant effort.
Let me ask you....do you not know that Isaiah chapters 7 and 8 are about testing the faith of a king? The prophecy in those scriptures were fulfilled shortly not hundreds of years in the future. There is no discussion of the Messiah in the general area of these scriptures.

 

[covenantee]

Do I have college books? Sure.
Here is the deal, when people take a scripture out of context, that is called cherry picking. People do it a lot in the New Testament when they have a belief that is really not in the scriptures. Instead of learning from the Bible they try to impose their beliefs on the scriptures. So they go to the Bible looking for one liners or vague scriptures to interpret their beliefs and try to fool others with them.

If you notice, the scriptures I quote are in context with the other scriptures. Learn from the Bible.

I realize that you think that you are defending the Bible. Valiant effort.
Let me ask you....do you not know that Isaiah chapters 7 and 8 are about testing the faith of a king? The prophecy in those scriptures were fulfilled shortly not hundreds of years in the future. There is no discussion of the Messiah in the general area of these scriptures.

Isaiah 7
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 8
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

testing the faith of a king?
Immanuel is not Messiah?

 

[Grailhunter]

Isaiah 7
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 8
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

testing the faith of a king?
Immanuel is not Messiah?

I know you can read, so read. Yes, testing the faith of a king. Read the chapters!
And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 8:1
Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz is a good omen for the king. It means loot quickly, fast plunder for the prey. Translation Quick loot, swift to the prey. This chapter is talking about Isaiah's son.

I have already explained Isaiah 7....Again it is Isaiah's son and his wife is called a virgin because she had not had a baby yet.....a common use of the word in the time period.

Immanual is more of a description meaning EL is with us. More of a description because no one is actually named that. Christ's name is Yahweh not Emmanuel. No and Emmanuel said......

In case you did not know EL is a casual name for Yahweh that they were allowed to write. The word God is rarely used in reference to Yahweh in the Old Testament because the Hebrew word for God is the same for Yahweh or false gods.

Summery
The children of Isaiah are not merely personal details of the prophet's life but are integral to his prophetic ministry. Their names and the circumstances of their births are divinely orchestrated to communicate God's messages to His people. Through Shear-Jashub, God reassures the faithful of His promise to preserve a remnant. Through Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz, He warns of the impending judgment and the need for repentance.

Isaiah's family, therefore, serves as a living prophecy, embodying the themes of judgment and hope that are central to Isaiah's message. The prophet's life and family are intertwined with his divine calling, illustrating the profound ways in which God uses personal and familial circumstances to convey His purposes to His people.

Which also means that Isaiah had two wives. Shear-Jashub was his first born son and Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz, was his other wife's first born.

 

[jeffweeder]

The storyline is still the storyline in Isaiah as it is written, John picked this out of the middle of the story. Why? They were Jewish-Christians and they were desperate to find Old Testament connections even if it was a one liner taken out of context.

What do you mean John?

Desperate for one liners???
The Disciples had more substance to them to resort to that nonsense.
Jesus chose these individuals to carry on his work on the firm foundation and conviction of his teaching.

Lk 24
44 Then He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you, everything which has been written about Me in the Law of Moses and the [writings of the] Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

45 Then He opened their minds to [help them] understand the Scriptures, 46 and said, “And so it is written, that the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and that repentance [necessary] for forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 Listen carefully: I am sending the Promise of My Father [the Holy Spirit] upon you; but you are to remain in the city [of Jerusalem] until you are clothed (fully equipped) with power from on high.”

This why Matthew referenced Is 7 the way he did. Spiritually discerned.


Theological universities will not help you on that level

 

[Grailhunter]

What do you mean John?

Desperate for one liners???
The Disciples had more substance to them to resort to that nonsense.
Jesus chose these individuals to carry on his work on the firm foundation and conviction of his teaching.

Lk 24
44 Then He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you, everything which has been written about Me in the Law of Moses and the [writings of the] Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

45 Then He opened their minds to [help them] understand the Scriptures, 46 and said, “And so it is written, that the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and that repentance [necessary] for forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 Listen carefully: I am sending the Promise of My Father [the Holy Spirit] upon you; but you are to remain in the city [of Jerusalem] until you are clothed (fully equipped) with power from on high.”

This why Matthew referenced Is 7 the way he did. Spiritually discerned.


Theological universities will not help you on that level

so it is written, that the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and that repentance [necessary] for forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem...
Where was this written? There has to be more to the story. Study Bibles avoid it like the plague and commentaries do a tap dance.
Universities will not help me? These topics were well discussed. When they quote writings that do not show up in the Bible, we can assume they could be in one of the lost books? And if it came from a lost book how many Jews knew about it, because Yeshua was pretty much a shock to them. Again there is nothing in the existing prophetic books about the Jews getting him killed and he rising on the third day. (39 hours) What would they have to look forward to. The wrath of Yahweh for killing His Son? Like I said there has to be more to it. Nothing to debate.

And one liners......All you have to do is read the whole story that the one liners were plucked from. It is called cherry picking.