Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

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Grailhunter

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It is hard to take you serious when you come out with nonsense like this. We have supported every small aspect of our position with multiple Scriptures and yet you have rejected every Scripture. You are incapable of exegeting Scripture or rebutting counter-arguments. You are totally incapable of addressing simple biblical questions that expose your position. On the other hand, you have brought nothing of biblical weight to the table.

This is a clear case of projection!

The reader can look back on every page of our conversations and will see that for themselves.

You cannot make your case in the scriptures.
You come up with terms that are not in the scriptures.
The simplest thing and the most important things you cannot produce.
If prophets knew the Messiah would be a God it would fill the prophetic pages, they would be shouting it from the mountain tops.
And know part of Israel is in Christianity. The closest thing would be the Jewish-Christians and they died out by the end of the first century.
The proverbial, you do not have a leg to stand on.
 
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covenantee

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We have already refuted your claims weeks ago and you have already avoided them. That is what is frustrating with engaging with you. You never address the numerous Scriptures that expose what you have been taught. You just ignore and repeat the same falsehood weeks later as if the evidence had not been presented.

You fail to address any of the arguments. Sadly, this is pretty typical when dealing with Dispies.

You need to stick to the Word - instead of what you have been taught. Heaven has been the believer's hope since Abraham. That is the hope of him and his offspring. His expectation of Abraham was not physical but spiritual, not earthly but heavenly. The Old Testament saints were exactly like us. Their hope was the same.

Hebrews 11:8-10 describes how our great father of the faith, the Patriarch, Abraham looked for that great heavenly city, saying, “By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”

The Greek word for “strange” here (as in “strange country") is allotrios which actually means another’s, or not one’s own; by extension foreign, not akin, hostile. The earthly Promised Land was not the true home of God’s Old Testament people. It was not the place of true peace and rest. Many enemies resided within those borders, and much trouble and strife continued there even when Israel took her promised borders. The children of Israel were indeed “strangers and pilgrims on the earth.” This world was not their home. Basically, they were strangers in a strange land.

Hebrews 11:8-10 is clearly talking about Old Testament earthly Israel. It is talking about the ancient promised land. The text is talking about the patriarchs’ sojourn in the earthly Canaan land. It notably describes Abraham’s experience there as “a stranger in a foreign country.” There is no other interpretation. It also chronicles his honorable son Isaac and grandson Jacob’s experiences to be the same as his own. This totally blows apart the premillennialist fixation with the Old Testament promised land. This shows that physical Israel and its ancient boundaries were never intended to be the true Promised Land or the eternal inheritance. It confirms that it was never envisioned to be the eternal possession of natural Israel or God’s people. It was clearly conditional and temporal land.

Hebrews 11:9 tells us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were “the heirs with him of the same promise” (Hebrews 11:9). What promise? The next verse explains: “For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10). The Patriarchs eyes were on higher, better and longer-lasting things than Canaan. Their eyes were on the heavenly city that Christ is preparing for those that are His. Their eyes were upon eternal matters. Their focus was heavenly. Even though they were promised an earthly piece of real estate their hope was always heavenly. It says here that Abraham: “looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” That city was clearly the New Jerusalem. The possession of this city has been the goal of every believer from the beginning. Abraham was looking forward to a heavenly country and to a city whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:13-16 says, specifically speaking of the great Old Testament champions of faith, “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”

It wasn’t just Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that were strangers in their ethnic homeland; so were all the rest of the old covenant saints who populated national Israel. Hebrews 11:12 describes Abraham’s natural seed as “so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. the sand of the sea.” And even though most of them at some juncture populated the area promised from the Euphrates River to the River of Egypt, the Hebrew writer testifies to the fact that please quit Old Testament giants died “not having received the promises.” The Scripture say that they “seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them.” What is more, they “confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.”

Obviously the taking of the natural, earthly, temporal land was not the end-all and be-all of their existence. It was not what it was all about. There was something better, greater, higher and longer-lasting that was promised to them that would fulfil Israel’s deepest desires – something larger than real estate in the Middle East. It was the Messiah Jesus Christ and the perfected state that comes at His appearing in the form of the new corrupt-free, sin-free, death-free, wicked-free, eternal perfect earth.
Amens bro.
 

Grailhunter

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You've already forgotten the eunuch? For shame. :laughing:

Philip and the eunuch were waaaaay smarter than you.

They recognized the accurate prophecy about Messiah in Isaiah 53.

Not defined as the Messiah.
Someone was mistreated.
And full disclosure, several people in the New Testament saw the similarities between this chapter and Yeshua.
But it is nothing new, from the beginning people combed through Old Testament scriptures looking for similarities. But they always leave the important points out.
 

Grailhunter

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Hebrews 11:8-10 describes how our great father of the faith, the Patriarch, Abraham looked for that great heavenly city, saying, “By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”

Nothing about this looking for a "heavenly city" More posting of scripture which does say what you think it does.
 

covenantee

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If prophets knew the Messiah would be a God it would fill the prophetic pages, they would be shouting it from the mountain tops.
They did.

Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

You tell us that the prophets weren't accurate.

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. The prophets

Need a hint? :laughing:
 

covenantee

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Not defined as the Messiah.
Someone was mistreated.
And full disclosure, several people in the New Testament saw the similarities between this chapter and Yeshua.
But it is nothing new, from the beginning people combed through Old Testament scriptures looking for similarities. But they always leave the important points out.
You're claiming that Jesus was not the Messiah.

That is blasphemous heresy.
 
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Grailhunter

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Hebrews 11:13-16 says, specifically speaking of the great Old Testament champions of faith, “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”

I agree this scripture speaks of champions of faith.
 

Grailhunter

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They did.

Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

You tell us that the prophets weren't accurate.

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. The prophets

Need a hint? :laughing:

Ya you need to find Old Testament scriptures that say the Old Testament prophets knew the Messiah would be a God.
 

WPM

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Nothing about this looking for a "heavenly city" More posting of scripture which does say what you think it does.
You twist every single Scripture presented to you. You say the opposite to the truth. I cannot handle such deceit any more. It is grievous interacting with you. But your avoidance and dismissal of Scripture has served reinforce the Op. So, for that I am thankful. Bye bye.
 
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Grailhunter

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You twist every single Scripture presented to you. You say the opposite to the truth. I cannot handle such deceit any more. It is grievous interacting with you. But your avoidance and dismissal of Scripture has served reinforce the Op. So, for that I am thankful. Bye bye.

I just point out that what you are saying the scripture says, does not say that. Somebody has to keep you honest.
 

Grailhunter

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@covenantee @WPM
I have given you guys plenty of time to state your case and you cannot.
I went back and forth over these prophecies in college. At best the prophets knew some sort of Savior was coming, but no real specifics.
It would have taken a lot for them to believe that the Messiah was going to be a God because they only believed in Yahweh. More than one God would be sacrilegious to them....per their reaction to Yeshua.
And foretelling that they would kill their own Messiah would have been counter productive.
 

covenantee

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@covenantee @WPM
I have given you guys plenty of time to state your case and you cannot.
I went back and forth over these prophecies in college. At best the prophets knew some sort of Savior was coming, but no real specifics.
It would have taken a lot for them to believe that the Messiah was going to be a God because they only believed in Yahweh. More than one God would be sacrilegious to them....per their reaction to Yeshua.
And foretelling that they would kill their own Messiah would have been counter productive.
We've presented a plethora of Scriptures.

You have not presented a single Scripture disproving any that we've presented.

Nor have you presented a single instance of any recognized defender of historical orthodox Christianity prior to 1800 CE who believed your nonsense.

You're a loser. :laughing:

Case closed.
 
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WPM

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We've presented a plethora of Scriptures.

You have not presented a single Scripture disproving any that we've presented.

Nor have you presented a single instance of any recognized defender of historical orthodox Christianity prior to 1800 CE who believed your nonsense.

You're a loser. :laughing:

Case closed.
Absolutely bro. He has nothing. He is delusional.
 
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