Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[CrowCross]

t goes back to the discussion you and I had a while back where I said born again and saved are two different things.

I would agree...those who are born again....born from above...are saved. Salvation is a result of being born again...quickened, regenerated.

 

[CrowCross]

That's because you lack understanding of the things of God. Only the Spirit can reveal these things to you.

1 Corinthians 2:11-14 (KJV) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

How stinking pius of you. Unless I think and believe like you....what I believe hasn't been revealed by the Spirit.

 

[IndianaRob]

I would say you take it as literal until you can't.

Are you saying Revelation is only symbolic?

It’s both. Literal things happen to symbolic things.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, it will be for all who are not waiting and watching for Him to return, who are living in darkness and unbelief.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 (KJV) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Yes, I'm not in darkness...I know the rapture is coming. I will not be overtaken by a thief in the night.
I will not be part of the sudden destruction that you claim christians will go through.

What a terrible fearful theology.

 

[CrowCross]

It’s both. Literal things happen to symbolic things.

In part I can agree with that.
From what I have seen when a symbolic image is presented the bible explains what that symbol represents.

for example the lamp stands here are literal...12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,

Then in a couple of verses the bible tells us what the lamp stands represent... 20 As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

 

[IndianaRob]

I would agree...those who are born again....born from above...are saved. Salvation is a result of being born again...quickened, regenerated.

Not according to the Bible. The Bible says you’re born again by the incorruptible word of God.

I was an atheist when I was saved 30 years ago, I knew nothing about the word of God and neither does any new believer.

 

[CrowCross]

Not according to the Bible. The Bible says you’re born again by the incorruptible word of God.

I was an atheist when I was saved 30 years ago, I knew nothing about the word of God and neither does any new believer.

It sounds like you're blurring definitions.

 

[IndianaRob]

It sounds like you're blurring definitions.

No it’s seeing past bad doctrine. You can’t defend your position from the Bible and I know you can’t because that’s how I learned that being born again and saved are two completely different things.

 

[IndianaRob]

Apparently, like many professing to be born again, they have a head knowledge without having a new heart/Spirit to be a new creation like Christ.

To be born again means to be eternally saved.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

How does that verse say a person is born again?

 

[rwb]

This time of wrath, trial, testing, temptation comes upon the whole world...not just the church of Philadelphia.

This quote comes from the book of Revelation...which presents this time of trial or wrath.

Yes, trial and testing, temptation has been coming upon the whole world from the dawn of mankind! Remember the universal flood? Remember also how Noah and those with him on the ark did not go through the judgment from God that came upon all the earth. Neither will faithful saints have to endure God's wrath that shall come upon the whole earth. Where in the Revelation does John link the trials, testing and tribulation with the wrath that comes upon the whole earth from God?

 

[rwb]

No it’s seeing past bad doctrine. You can’t defend your position from the Bible and I know you can’t because that’s how I learned that being born again and saved are two completely different things.

That may be what you believe, but you cannot prove from the Bible that being born again is not mean eternally saved!

 

[rwb]

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

How does that verse say a person is born again?

? Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

 

[rwb]

I would agree...those who are born again....born from above...are saved. Salvation is a result of being born again...quickened, regenerated.

WHATTTT???

 

[IndianaRob]

? Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This verse verse tells us how a person is born again so am asking you how does that verse say that a person is born again.

 

[rwb]

How stinking pius of you. Unless I think and believe like you....what I believe hasn't been revealed by the Spirit.

Quoting Scripture does not make me superior to anyone else!

I don't want you to think and believe as I do! I want you to believe and think through the Spirit in you what the BIBLE says!

 

[rwb]

Yes, I'm not in darkness...I know the rapture is coming. I will not be overtaken by a thief in the night.
I will not be part of the sudden destruction that you claim christians will go through.

What a terrible fearful theology.

It's only fearful for those who remain in darkness and unbelief! Those who have been born again no longer fear death, because when we are absent from our natural body of flesh we are spiritual body with Christ in heaven.

 

[rwb]

Not according to the Bible. The Bible says you’re born again by the incorruptible word of God.

I was an atheist when I was saved 30 years ago, I knew nothing about the word of God and neither does any new believer.

What is the Word of God?

 

[IndianaRob]

What is the Word of God?

It’s the scripture. You added the capital W to word of God to make it say something that it doesn’t.

 

[CrowCross]

No it’s seeing past bad doctrine. You can’t defend your position from the Bible and I know you can’t because that’s how I learned that being born again and saved are two completely different things.

What do you think my position is??

 

[CrowCross]

WHATTTT???

Doesn't born again mean "born from above"?

This is part of the salvation process....when it happens you become saved.

So I don't quite understand your .....WHATTTT???