Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[David in NJ]

Let’s me ask you directly. Are we born again by Jesus or the scriptures? In other words is the word of God in this verse Jesus or the scriptures?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Both

 

[rwb]

Let’s me ask you directly. Are we born again by Jesus or the scriptures? In other words is the word of God in this verse Jesus or the scriptures?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What did Christ tell the Jews of Old about who He is and how He gives eternal life? They do not believe in Him because they do not have the Word (Christ) abiding in them. They searched the Scriptures believing they had eternal life, the Scriptures (Word of God) testify of Christ. But they stumbled at the Word (Christ) because they were seeking eternal life through their own natural righteousness through obedience to the Law. Therefore Christ (the Word) became a stumbling stone and an offense to them preventing them from believing according to grace through faith.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The corruptible seed is natural and comes by natural birth through Adam. The incorruptible seed is Christ, the Word of God who lives and abides forever.

My point being we cannot separate the written Word of God from Christ Jesus our Lord. Because salvation comes by hearing the Word (Christ' gospel). This is the hour/time/age Christ spoke of as having come when man may hear the voice of Christ and all who hear and believe have eternal life.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word (gospel of Christ), and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [Ye MUST be born again]
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

[IndianaRob]

Then how do people travel to enter into themselves?




He also shows people entering that city in the same passage. That is how he shows us the bride. You assumed it would be the first thing shown rather than showing the bride entering the thing described first. There are too many things in the passage that show the city as literal, and people who come to it to enter into it. If one wants to interpret the city as symbolic, the valid choice cannot be saved people since they are in the passage as not the city.

It's like saying, I will shew you the heroes of Star Wars, and we see the Millennial Falcon in view, then it zooms into where Luke and Lea and the others are and assuming the hero is somehow the Millennial Falcon. It plays a part and is very related to the heroes but not what the speaker is talking about.

In my opinion it’s like saying — Come, I will show you the bridegroom, and then I showed you a Lamb. Would you conclude the bridegroom is an animal?

 

[rwb]

Can you show me in the Bible where it says you are not saved if your not born again?

Please allow me to flip the question around to you.... where does the Bible say one can be eternally saved who has not been born again?

 

[IndianaRob]

What did Christ tell the Jews of Old about who He is and how He gives eternal life? They do not believe in Him because they do not have the Word (Christ) abiding in them. They searched the Scriptures believing they had eternal life, the Scriptures (Word of God) testify of Christ. But they stumbled at the Word (Christ) because they were seeking eternal life through their own natural righteousness through obedience to the Law. Therefore Christ (the Word) became a stumbling stone and an offense to them preventing them from believing according to grace through faith.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The corruptible seed is natural and comes by natural birth through Adam. The incorruptible seed is Christ, the Word of God who lives and abides forever.

My point being we cannot separate the written Word of God from Christ Jesus our Lord. Because salvation comes by hearing the Word (Christ' gospel). This is the hour/time/age Christ spoke of as having come when man may hear the voice of Christ and all who hear and believe have eternal life.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word (gospel of Christ), and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [Ye MUST be born again]
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Do you pray to your Bible?

 

[rwb]

If a person is saved they are eternally saved.

Yes, unless they have believed in vain! Some have and many still do and will have vain faith that does not come from being born again, and will last only for a time until it fades away.

1Co 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel (WORD) which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

I believe vain faith is like that of devils, who believe there is one God and tremble, this is vain faith that does not eternally save.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[rwb]

Do you pray to your Bible?

I pray as taught from the Word of God, beginning "our Father".

 

[ewq1938]

In my opinion it’s like saying — Come, I will show you the bridegroom, and then I showed you a Lamb. Would you conclude the bridegroom is an animal?

That example has one thing shown while the pasasge has two.

Better example is: Come, I will show you the bridegroom, and then I showed you a lamb and then a bridegroom feeding the lamb.

Why would anyone stop at the Lamb and think that's the Bridegroom when the next thing shown is the Bridegroom.

You still haven't addressed that the bride enters NJ so NJ cannot also be symbolic of the bride.

 

[IndianaRob]

Please allow me to flip the question around to you.... where does the Bible say one can be eternally saved who has not been born again?

The qualifications of salvation are here and born again isn’t on the list.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[IndianaRob]

Both

Not according to Peter.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for

 

[IndianaRob]

I pray as taught from the Word of God, beginning "our Father".

Yep that’s right we don’t pray to the word of God which means the Word of God is not the word of God. They are not the same and Peter is not talking about the Word of God.

What I don’t understand is why would you fight against what is written. That makes no sense to me.

 

[IndianaRob]

That example has one thing shown while the pasasge has two.

Better example is: Come, I will show you the bridegroom, and then I showed you a lamb and then a bridegroom feeding the lamb.

Why would anyone stop at the Lamb and think that's the Bridegroom when the next thing shown is the Bridegroom.

You still haven't addressed that the bride enters NJ so NJ cannot also be symbolic of the bride.

I’m not following you. Is this the Bible translation you’re using because I don’t see two things. I see show the bride and then the city. Where do you see two things?

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 

[CrowCross]

If a believer does not go the next step and immerse themselves in the word of God then they won’t be born again.

I disagree 100% with that strange theology.

What does Jesus tell Nicky?

3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

Are you saying unless you immerse yourself in the word of God then you can't see the kingdom of God? Sounds like you're saying a believer isn't really saved unless they immerse themselves in the word of God. ....As I said, a strange theology.

 

[CrowCross]

Sorry! I misunderstood what you said, I thought even though saying this you agreed with IndianaRob who is saying being born again is NOT being eternally saved.

To be honest I don't know what @IndianaRob is saying.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't want or desire to go through tribulation! However, I must acknowledge the teaching of Christ when He tells us that "great tribulation" is the destiny for His disciples as we faithfully proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ. I don't worry about the wrath of God that shall come upon all the earth. Why? Because I believe His promise that He has saved me from the wrath of God that shall come.

Then you're in for a wonderful surprise if you're here for the rapture that preceds the tribulation.

 

[CrowCross]

Eternal salvation is indeed based upon being born again from above! There will be many souls standing before God at the judgment believing they are eternally saved, but they will hear Christ say to them, "Depart from Me, I do not know you." Why? Because the faith they thought would eternally save them depended upon their own deeds, and believing by their good works they would inherit eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

Salvation is 100% Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

ABSOLUTELY no one!!!

JESUS Said HE comes Back AFTER the Tribulation = Matthew 24:29-31

Have you ever considered the danger of adding your words upon God's???

Proverbs 30:5-6

I hear you saying that if you believe in the pre-trib rapture of the church....you're not saved.

 

[CrowCross]

lol

Just as they believe the error of pre-trib rapture..........more error will follow

Don't take the "mark" David in NJ.

 

[IndianaRob]

I disagree 100% with that strange theology.

What does Jesus tell Nicky?

3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

Are you saying unless you immerse yourself in the word of God then you can't see the kingdom of God? Sounds like you're saying a believer isn't really saved unless they immerse themselves in the word of God. ....As I said, a strange theology.

The Bible doesn’t say believers aren’t saved unless they immerse themselves in the word of God and neither do I. I saying that the bubble clearly teaches that being born again are not the same thing.

 

[CrowCross]

The Bible doesn’t say believers aren’t saved unless they immerse themselves in the word of God and neither do I. I saying that the bubble clearly teaches that being born again are not the same thing.

I'm thinking your "bubble" popped.