Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[David in NJ]

That's been done already...have you forgotten?

So, once again, you don't know.........?

 

[WPM]

Because the Church isn't present during the tribulation. That's why it's not mentioned. Pretty much a no-brainer.

The lack of the bride of Christ not being in Revelation....but rather at the marriage supper of the lamb is just one of many reasons that show the pre-tribulation rapture.

You want to be a tribulation martyr for all the wrong reasons.

The Pretrib argument relating to the non-mention of the word “Church” after Revelation 3 falls apart when you consider the fact that the word “Church” (speaking of all the elect) is not found anywhere in the whole book of Revelation. All references are to local churches.

The word ecclesia is also not found anywhere in the New Testament books of Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John and Jude, yet the Church is undoubtedly the recipient of these inspired gospels and epistles and is continually referred to under many varying descriptions throughout them. Like the whole book of Revelation, these books use varying descriptions of the Church of Jesus Christ such as “saints,” “elect,” “redeemed,” “brethren” and “servants.”

Moreover, the word ‘Church’ is also not used in relation to the overall body of Christ in Romans, 2 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, Philemon and I Peter, but is only used in the context of the local visible gathering of God’s people, a number that quite often included professors and false-professors alike. However, the true Church – the body of Christ – relates solely to Christ’s blood-bought alone.

If the Pretrib logic is correct, and if its adherents are consistent, then the Pretribber must believe that the aforementioned New Testament books have absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the Church of Jesus Christ in this day of grace, but are rather only applicable to the Jews in a supposed seven-year tribulation period? Ironically, the one gospel that the Pretribs contend is written exclusively to the Jews, and has therefore an important relevance to them in the Great Tribulation, is the only gospel that mentions the Church – Matthew. Even then, it is worth noting, we see no mention of the word Church after Matthew 18. Does this mean that Matthew 19-28 relates specially to the tribulation period after the supposed secret rapture?

Notably, in the other New Testament books that do use the word “Church” in relation to the whole body of Christ, we find only one reference in Galatians, Philippians and James and only two verses in Matthew, Colossians and Hebrews. In the remaining books we have no mention of the Church after Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 15:9, Ephesians 5:32, 1 Timothy 5:16 and 3 John 1:10. Do all these particular passages reveal the actual demarcation line between the so-called Gospel age and the supposed Church-free Great Tribulation period?

 

[WPM]

So, once again, you don't know.........?

Exactly bro! They actually know they have nothing yet they will not abandon it. Talk about delusional!

 

[ewq1938]

There's a difference between current "saints" and Revelation "saints".

The Revelation saints become believers after the current saints are removed.

The bible does not describe that happening. Saints are saints no matter the timeframe. Christians alive at the time of the trib are promised to face the wrath of satan, Rev 12.

 

[David in NJ]

The bible does not describe that happening. Saints are saints no matter the timeframe. Christians alive at the time of the trib are promised to face the wrath of satan, Rev 12.

And GOD keeps His saints no matter the persecution.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Funny thing is I know of some non-christians who have better fruit than bible believing christians.

ABSOLUTELY

 

[PeterAndroz]

The bible does not describe that happening. Saints are saints no matter the timeframe. Christians alive at the time of the trib are promised to face the wrath of satan, Rev 12.

In the trib it will be possible to lose salvation, eg Matt 25:44-46, can we become UNsaved/UNsealed today ?
If so please state where Paul teaches that

 

[WPM]

In the trib it will be possible to lose salvation, eg Matt 25:44-46, can we become UNsaved/UNsealed today ?
If so please state where Paul teaches that

Where-oh-where in God's Holy Book does it teach "In the trib it will be possible to lose salvation"? Where-oh-where in God's Holy Book does it teach we "can ... become UNsaved/UNsealed today"?

Matt 25:44-46 does not say that.

 

[ewq1938]

In the trib it will be possible to lose salvation, eg Matt 25:44-46, can we become UNsaved/UNsealed today ?
If so please state where Paul teaches that

I use the full bible and losing salvation can happen today like blasphemy of the HS, or Apostasy where one abandons Christ.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I use the full bible and losing salvation can happen today like blasphemy of the HS, or Apostasy where one abandons Christ.

Using the FULL BIBLE presents problems
eg :-
Do we stone adulterers today ?
Do we stone homosexuals today ?
Do we stone sabbath breakers today ?
Are ALL believers together and sell & pool everything today - Acts 2:44-45
Can you see how relying on the whole Bible becomes problematic ?
..
Using the full Bible, please list the verses that teach who Christ selected as Apostle & Minister to you.

 

[rwb]

Using the FULL BIBLE presents problems
eg :-
Do we stone adulterers today ?
Do we stone homosexuals today ?
Do we stone sabbath breakers today ?
Are ALL believers together and sell & pool everything today - Acts 2:44-45
Can you see how relying on the whole Bible becomes problematic ?
..
Using the full Bible, please list the verses that teach who Christ selected as Apostle & Minister to you.

It's not using the complete Word of God that leads you to believe this incredible distorted doctrine you only espouse. Foolishness says Christians should only use parts of God's written Word, as though God says some things that apply only to the Jews? Just because in Christ we are no longer bound by the Levitical Laws of Old, does not mean that Christians under the New Covenant through Christ cannot learn by what God has said to those who lived under the Old Covenant. Is God ever changing? Does not Scripture tell us that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? The reason we are not stoned for sins as Law breakers as those of Old were, is because we live AFTER the cross made atonement for all sin, and defeated death. It was being faithfully obedient to the Law that cleansed the people of Old. The problem for them was the cleansing was not able to cleanse them inwardly (consciences), which is why they had to make sacrifices and offerings to God continually. When Christ came, His sacrifice was needed but once to inwardly cleanse (conscience) once for all who believe in Him.

How can we live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God if we only believe part of what is written? Are His Words only in parts of the Bible?

We're told in God's written Word that ALL of the Scripture is given under inspiration of God that we could learn His doctrine as an example of how we ought to live and receive correction when we have erred. Because ALL of Scripture instructs us in righteousness, making the man of God (ALL of them) to be perfect, and thoroughly equipped to do all good works.

Matthew 4:4 (KJV) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[CrowCross]

No. Lol. It comes from the jesuits.

Prove it.

 

[CrowCross]

Yea right! Lol. What a joke! You guys make it up as you go. Not one single proof text. No consistent hermeneutics. Just force what you've been taught upon the sacred text.

The devil is the only one that wants to divide the people of God up. Jesus come to unite them. There is one fold and one shepherd. There is no distinction today between Jews and Gentiles - only in Dispensatanism. There is no favoritism today. There is one people of God!

Your hateful comments are very devilish. You seem to be the divider in chief.

 

[CrowCross]

You still have not proven there will be a 7-year tribulation period! I would be lying if I said I would not be afraid if/when I am called to suffer for my faith in Christ in this life. But being afraid of suffering is not the same as having no fear, because I know that death for me though it may be physically difficult will simply mean my spirit will be with the Lord in heaven as living soul even though my body has died. For to be absent from this body of death, means that I shall be present with the Lord in heaven.

Imagine you're a couple years from now in the tribulation....and they say to you.... deny Christ or I'll throw your grandchild off the roof...as you look at your first grandchild laying in a pool of blood just having been thrown off the roof a moment ago.
Or imagine your loved ones are dying of hunger....and all you need to do is take the mark so you can buy some food and save them from their tragic death....all you gotta do is simply take the mark.

You post tribbers seem to be clamoring for this.

 

[CrowCross]

Pretribs prove nothing but they do not have any Scripture to support their nonsense. It is a deception of the enemy!

Sounds like the words a denier would say. WPM, first thing you gotta do is admit you're a denier.

 

[WPM]

Sounds like the words a denier would say. WPM, first thing you gotta do is admit you're a denier.

Instead of all your childishness. How about actually proving your doctrine with hard Scripture. So far you have presented nothing that can stand biblical scrutiny.

 

[CrowCross]

Pretribbers:

Please see here how your teachers have deceived you. None of your teachers can show your teaching in the Bible. That is because it is a lie. It is fiction. It is not based on God's truth.

Many of us were also deceived by this and are now free.

Embrace the truth.

That sounds like a desperate plea. Don't all of you pre-tribbers know Jesus isn't coming back for you?!?.....you're going to take part in the judgement of the Revelations. AND, if you make it through the tribulation, with all of its horror and you find a way to keep your head from falling into a basket....Jesus will return like 1 Thes 4:17...we should then 18 COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THOSE WORDS........Phew...I feel better....If I make it through the wrath and judgment of the seal, bowl and trumpets.....Jesus comes back for me!!!!! COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THOSE WORDS!!!! Just hang on WPM, just hang on.

 

[CrowCross]

Instead of all your childishness. How about actually proving your doctrine with hard Scripture. So far you have presented nothing that can stand biblical scrutiny.

White horse. Giddy up WPM.

 

[CrowCross]

So, once again, you don't know.........?

Facing a tribulation of getting fired from your job because you're a christian...or mocked....or even arrested for praying is NOTHING compared to you trying to keep your family hidden in some dark damp basement, hungry and desperate for relief as the "beast police" hunt you down.....and when they finally do catch you and those you've been hiding with and torture you...trying to force you to deny Jesus as some will do when they see their wives or husbands slaughtered is a bit more different tribulation than the remarks you hear when you were a christian T-shirt.

 

[CrowCross]

The Pretrib argument relating to the non-mention of the word “Church” after Revelation 3 falls apart when you consider the fact that the word “Church” (speaking of all the elect) is not found anywhere in the whole book of Revelation. All references are to local churches.

The word ecclesia is also not found anywhere in the New Testament books of Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John and Jude, yet the Church is undoubtedly the recipient of these inspired gospels and epistles and is continually referred to under many varying descriptions throughout them. Like the whole book of Revelation, these books use varying descriptions of the Church of Jesus Christ such as “saints,” “elect,” “redeemed,” “brethren” and “servants.”

Moreover, the word ‘Church’ is also not used in relation to the overall body of Christ in Romans, 2 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, Philemon and I Peter, but is only used in the context of the local visible gathering of God’s people, a number that quite often included professors and false-professors alike. However, the true Church – the body of Christ – relates solely to Christ’s blood-bought alone.

If the Pretrib logic is correct, and if its adherents are consistent, then the Pretribber must believe that the aforementioned New Testament books have absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the Church of Jesus Christ in this day of grace, but are rather only applicable to the Jews in a supposed seven-year tribulation period? Ironically, the one gospel that the Pretribs contend is written exclusively to the Jews, and has therefore an important relevance to them in the Great Tribulation, is the only gospel that mentions the Church – Matthew. Even then, it is worth noting, we see no mention of the word Church after Matthew 18. Does this mean that Matthew 19-28 relates specially to the tribulation period after the supposed secret rapture?

Notably, in the other New Testament books that do use the word “Church” in relation to the whole body of Christ, we find only one reference in Galatians, Philippians and James and only two verses in Matthew, Colossians and Hebrews. In the remaining books we have no mention of the Church after Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 15:9, Ephesians 5:32, 1 Timothy 5:16 and 3 John 1:10. Do all these particular passages reveal the actual demarcation line between the so-called Gospel age and the supposed Church-free Great Tribulation period?

LOL....That's your opinion.